Black Tank Blues - A tale of No smell Filter Whoa

[RufusR]

We at last moved aboard a week and a half a go to begin our new life afloat , We have a lovely boat , 2008 little used and in general it is in excellent nick .

 

Little then did we expect the events of the first week .

 

I thought I would share just in case there are others with the same waste arrangement as us who like us and it seems many with the same maccerator , who are also unaware of No Smell Filters and there need to be replaced regularly .

 

When we Moved aboard my better half ( who has a much sharper nose than most ) made a comment that she got a whiff of .. well Toilet smell .. I couldn't smell it so we put it down to the fact the boat had been stood closed up for a while before we bought it .

 

A week in and the toilet backed up all of a sudden , The tank couldn't be full we thought as we had hardly used it after it had been pumped out before we moved on . After that it seemed ok so we ignored it as a one off .

 

Any way to cut a long story short we returned after a family party to find the fumes and smell in the boat was over whelming , something was clearly wrong , on inspection of the tank under the bed liquid could be seen bubbling out of the soil pipe joint and the tank was clearly under pressure and expanded .

 

Luckily we have a number of plumbers in the family and they came around and got to work ,

 

What they discovered is the Vetus system we have has a no smell filter on the air pipe that allows air to exit the tank and this had completely disintegrated ( it is carbon granules ) and blocked the filter pipes completely so air could not exit .

 

 

As a result nothing was pumped out of the tank at time of pump out and the tank was under so much pressure it was in danger of bursting

 

Further investigation reveals these filters should be replaced annually and this one had never been , In fairness who would know as it is not actually mentioned in any of the manuals from the manufacture and seems to be something you should just know .

 

It wasn't picked up on survey as surveyors quite rightly don't strip down and inspect all the pipe work and everything was operating normally to that point .

 

Further discussion around the mooring revealed other users of the same Vetus toilet systems have had the exact same problem and also learned the hard way .

 

so a word of warning to new boaters to take care to replace the NSF filers on Vetus maccerators regularly or it will bite you . It has taken us several days to get the smell out of the boat , new filter elements arrive today

 

 

[Sea Dog]

Does it really need it? Mine's a Jabsco macerator which doesn't have such a filter and I can't see (smell?) what it would achieve. Sounds like a bit of a liability for little gain.

[Iain_S]

Such filters can be fitted to other than Vetus systems.

 

When Streethay do a pump out, they will not rinse the tank via the vent, unless it is marked "Rinse out".

[RufusR]

Does it really need it? Mine's a Jabsco macerator which doesn't have such a filter and I can't see (smell?) what it would achieve. Sounds like a bit of a liability for little gain.

 

 

we initially thought that but after living for a week in high winds without it , Smells definitely exit the air pipe outlet and get blown back into the boat not to mention other moorers , I know other boats on the mooring with different toilet makes / systems don't have them and have no issue but maybe our layout and this model do , they are not expensive so we will replace it and have a spare and a mark in the calendar to replace next year

Such filters can be fitted to other than Vetus systems.

 

When Streethay do a pump out, they will not rinse the tank via the vent, unless it is marked "Rinse out".

 

 

indeed we have a non return valve on ours so you cant flush water down it

[Victor Vectis]

OK CWDFers, bets are on as to how long before we have a 'get a cassette' posting.

 

 

We've got a Tecma macerator system, no filter, and the PO tank honks too. Tried Odorloss but that doesn't seem to work. Looking forward to the winter, doesn't seem to smell too bad then.

[RufusR]

OK CWDFers, bets are on as to how long before we have a 'get a cassette' posting.

 

 

We've got a Tecma macerator system, no filter, and the PO tank honks too. Tried Odorloss but that doesn't seem to work. Looking forward to the winter, doesn't seem to smell too bad then.

 

 

think there are pro's and cons to both , we had a cassette on our old boat and there are issues with those too , We actually looked at a couple of 70 footers with both on in 2 rooms , best of both worlds , unfortunately the rest of the boats were not up to snuff but loos would have been good lol ..

 

I like the macceraters on liveaboard as they are more like a real toilet and I hope the new filter will solve any smell issue , its not too bad at the moment as I write this to be honest . think the winds turned and is blowing the other way now so the builders in the flats opposite are getting it lol

[Sea Dog]

we initially thought that but after living for a week in high winds without it , Smells definitely exit the air pipe outlet and get blown back into the boat not to mention other moorers , I know other boats on the mooring with different toilet makes / systems don't have them and have no issue.....

Hmm, sounds like the filter is there to make up for a design flaw then. There's bound to be some smell occasionally given the content, but the really bad whiff occurs when the tank goes anaerobic which the vent is there to counter. When the good little aerobic bacteria do their thing there should be very little smell.

[Sea Dog]

Tried Odorloss but that doesn't seem to work.

I'd recommend Silky 65, which is an enzyme additive. A teaspoon full per month in a properly vented, chemical free tank promotes good digestion!

[Loafer]

We've NEVER caught a whiff of ours in 6 years. Straightforward PO, air vent with no filters, no macerator.

[RufusR]

Hmm, sounds like the filter is there to make up for a design flaw then. There's bound to be some smell occasionally given the content, but the really bad whiff occurs when the tank goes anaerobic which the vent is there to counter. When the good little aerobic bacteria do their thing there should be very little smell.

 

 

could be right there , it seems Vetus recommends them for their systems . To be honest rightly or wrongly the design of the bog system was not at the forefront of our minds when choosing a boat .. maybe it should be lol

 

To be honest it is much much better today so think it may have settled down now its cleared

[ditchcrawler]

 

 

indeed we have a non return valve on ours so you cant flush water down it

That will not help your toilet smell as its stopping oxygen getting into the tank for the bacteria

[Bunny]

Have a vac u flush , our charcoal filter is in a breather pipe which vents the tank to the side just below the gunwales. The filter would only disintegrate if we over filled our tank . Bunny .

[ditchcrawler]

Have a vac u flush , our charcoal filter is in a breather pipe which vents the tank to the side just below the gunwales. The filter would only disintegrate if we over filled our tank . Bunny .

Maybe that is what has happened at some time

[bottle]

OK CWDFers, bets are on as to how long before we have a 'get a cassette' posting.

 

 

We've got a Tecma macerator system, no filter, and the PO tank honks too. Tried Odorloss but that doesn't seem to work. Looking forward to the winter, doesn't seem to smell too bad then.

 

What did you use before because if it was 'Blue' then the tank would need to have been totally cleaned, as 'Blue' kills the good bacteria that Oudorloss and other 'Green' liquids use.

[Alan de Enfield]

6 hours 13 minutes

 

Cassette

[nb Innisfree]

When I installed a tank and PO on Innisfree I fitted an inline filter on the vent, made a real solid job of it, but after finding the expensive filter was only effective for 3 months I decided not to bother with one and didn't have any problems after that.

Edited November 12, 2015 by nb Innisfree

[ROBDEN]

I took the filters out of my Vetus system years ago.

No smells and no problems.

 

Rob....

[John V]

You need to add a starter to encourage the right type of biological action.

Several things on the market but you need to start off with a clean empty tank and you must not use blue or any other harsh cleaning chemicals, bleaches etc.

Personally I use bakers yeast added occasionally to the tank and find that works for me (using white vinegar as the toilet de-scaler) though many people have their own preference.

I'm not saying that it never smells but usually the addition of more yeast and soon it's back to normal

 

 

eta no filter just a plain air vent

Edited November 13, 2015 by John V

[BruceinSanity]

We have twin vents on SA, one at each end of the tank to encourage air flow, and used brewer's yeast for the first couple of years. That got the aerobic fermentation established and now we don't need anything.

 

At first, we had a problem of niff outside on any change of direction or speed, so fitted a LeeSan Carbon filter to the forward vent. This reduced the rate of flow of air and solved the problem completely. We've never needed to renew the filter apart from once when we overfilled the tank and destroyed the filter cartridge. If that happened again, I'd probably just stick a rag in the filter body to provide the same baffling.

[Chewbacka]

In case you missed it, the tank should not smell much if it has an adequate supply of air - yours did not as the breather was blocked - and lots of the right bacteria. Bleach and some other toilet chemicals will kill the good bugs and then your toilet tank will smell bad.

It took my good wife ages to accept she could not bleach the toilet.

[ditchcrawler]

You need to add a starter to encourage the right type of biological action.

Several things on the market but you need to start off with a clean empty tank and you must not use blue or any other harsh cleaning chemicals, bleaches etc.

Personally I use bakers yeast added occasionally to the tank and find that works for me (using white vinegar as the toilet de-scaler) though many people have their own preference.

I'm not saying that it never smells but usually the addition of more yeast and soon it's back to normal

 

 

eta no filter just a plain air vent

But you need ventilation into the tank, a check valve in the vent will stop that

[RufusR]

ok folks thanks for all the advise and feedback , The Mrs did flush some blue down after we pumped out , not much as it had to go through the toilet as there is a non return valve on the pump out outlet . ( you are right you cant stop em lol )

 

So given all the advise about good bacteria , what should done now as flushing the tank is not a good option given the non return valve .. FYI most smell has now gone anyway . Will the good bacteria recover in time anyway if we dont add any more blue ?

But you need ventilation into the tank, a check valve in the vent will stop that

 

 

we have a non returnm valve on the pump out outlet but non on the air outlet / inlet so air can get to the tank

[ditchcrawler]

 

 

 

we have a non returnm valve on the pump out outlet but non on the air outlet / inlet so air can get to the tank

Sorry I miss read that. I wouldn't want one in the pump out line ether. I sometimes push the flush hose right down there to swill the bottom of the tank. I take it you cant rinse your tank at all so could have sediment building up.

[RufusR]

Sorry I miss read that. I wouldn't want one in the pump out line ether. I sometimes push the flush hose right down there to swill the bottom of the tank. I take it you cant rinse your tank at all so could have sediment building up.

 

seems that way , only had the boat a couple of weeks so still learning its nuances . Not sure why it has a non return valve on there or if its easy to remove

[Sea Dog]

Blue is likely to kill off the bacteria (good and bad) and stop any enzyme additive from working. Given the price of pump outs, you may be best to live with it this time and wait till you need your next pump out before changing. A really good rinse will help, so a friendly pump out station would be useful but many are timed, with 8 minutes being fairly common, so you may not achieve a totally blue-less tank at the first go.

 

I'd say persevere though, because the enzyme route has worked for me. Not only in eradicating smells, but also in breaking down solids which can accumulate and not be shifted by rinsing alone. My black water gauge with a probe type sender unit used to be inaccurate, sticking at about 60% for ages before suddenly declaring 100% shortly after I found that out by other, less pleasant means! This was every time, not just occasionally, and I'd checked electrical connections, swapped gauges with my similar fresh water indicator, etc, all to no avail. I'm convinced it was no coincidence that my gauge began to work correctly soon after I started using Silky 65 and that solid accumulation was the cause. There are other enzyme treatments, and some folk swear by brewer's yeast, but Silky is inexpensive and at a teaspoon a month lasts ages, so I'm sticking with what I know works.