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Are Canaline Marine Engines any good ?


GreyLady

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No idea.

 

The odd thing is that Canalline recommendations clearly show the 42 as recommended for boats somewhat longer than they do for the 38, but the torque figures are within less than 1% of each other.

 

I really don't get it.

 

 

Marketing??

 

Customer perception??

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Having encountered Canaline engines on hire boats, I was impressed by the lack of exhaust smoke. That might just be because they were new engines.

...or because they were switched off at the time.

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Not according to the technical specifications in their leaflet, which show both as 1.99 litre engines with identical bore and stroke.

 

It shows the same maximum RPM for each (2,600) and only a marginal difference in Maximum Torque (124 versoc 125 Nm at 1,600 RPM)

 

Based on that data, one could reasonably conclude they are the same engine but with a larger main alternator and more robust gearbox on the 42)

 

The 42 HP is quoted elsewhere on their site as being achieved at 3,000 RPM, whereas the maximum operating RPM shown in the technical spec is quoted as only 2,600, so I'm not quite sure if they actually expect you to ever achieve the 42HP?

I'm simply not seeing here the big differences between the engines that you suggest?

Sorry, I was referring to the Beta equivalents but didn't make that clear. The Beta 43 (43hp) is 2 litre and revs to 2800. The Beta 38 (38hp, so not that much less) is 1500cc but revs to 3600. Naturally the 43 has masses more torque just above idle than the 38 does, which was one of the reasons Steve recommended we went for the 43 since we had the 175A alternator and the Travelpower, both of which are capable of generating a lot of power (and hence requiring a lot of power) at idle or just above.

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Sorry, I was referring to the Beta equivalents but didn't make that clear.

 

 

Well I did wonder that, except that your post referred to 38HP and 42HP models, (which is what the Canaline range has), whereas you now refer to 38HP and 43HP models, (which the Beta range has).

 

The 38 is much less cc and torque, but more revs to give it nearly as much power (whereas the 42 is obviously larger, more torquey and slower revving). So whilst they may be close at max revs, at the sort of revs you realistically want to be operating at there is much more difference.

 

I think I can be excused for thinking you were talking about the original subject of the thread, (Canaline)!

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Well I did wonder that, except that your post referred to 38HP and 42HP models, (which is what the Canaline range has), whereas you now refer to 38HP and 43HP models, (which the Beta range has).

 

 

I think I can be excused for thinking you were talking about the original subject of the thread, (Canaline)!

 

Certainly, that is why I apologised for the confusion!

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Seconded, I know, GreyLady, that you're thinking of leaving £5k for moorings, etc., but we spent very nearly all of our money on buying our first boat, and when things went wrong, we found it very stressful. I'd strongly advise leaving a cash reserve, because it will make things a lot easier.

Thanks for your advice its really appreciated, my dad has a boat budget but if any problems came along we would be able to sort them out money wise between us if we really had too I guess a lot of people just like we were planning just think buy the boat and have enough left over to get it on the water for a year and everything would be sorted. (Wishfull thinking)lol

 

This forum is great for pointing out possible rookie mistakes and it has some really good advice.

 

Thanks F to S

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Well I did wonder that, except that your post referred to 38HP and 42HP models, (which is what the Canaline range has), whereas you now refer to 38HP and 43HP models, (which the Beta range has).

 

 

 

I think I can be excused for thinking you were talking about the original subject of the thread, (Canaline)!

Alan I think you mentioned the cost involved from upgrading from a Canaline 38hp with 120 PRM Gearbox to a 42hp with a 150 PRM Gearbox in a previous post, the upgrade for that on a Hanbury Range Narrowboat was around £1400, which is quite cheap considering they wanted £1900 to upgrade the Worktop Surfaces on the same Narrowboat.

 

If you are not embarrassed to put in your first offer then it probably isn't low enough.

I will leave that to dad NC, being honest I dont have much confidence in myself to put in a cheaky offer. Lol

Edited by GreyLady
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I will leave that to dad NC, being honest I dont have much confidence in myself to put in a cheaky offer. Lol

 

Remember, the broker or seller is friendly but not a friend - you need to treat it like a business transaction, of course be polite, don't be rude, treat them how you'd like to be treated etc. But (unless there's major issues.....that's another thing!) you probably will never see them again after the transaction.

 

If the boat is advertised at a price you (or the market, after some research) think is too high, and/or there's faults which cost so much to fix, then by all means adjust your price to reflect this. If you want to "play a game" where you anticipate a number of rounds of haggling, then you might want to put an initial offer in below what you are prepared to pay, with the expectation that there will be further haggling. If you are clearly in two different places regarding price, then you need to be prepared to walk away and look at another boat. There's a good chance that if the boat is priced too much, it will still be for sale in a few weeks/months time.

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Remember, the broker or seller is friendly but not a friend - you need to treat it like a business transaction, of course be polite, don't be rude, treat them how you'd like to be treated etc. But (unless there's major issues.....that's another thing!) you probably will never see them again after the transaction.

 

If the boat is advertised at a price you (or the market, after some research) think is too high, and/or there's faults which cost so much to fix, then by all means adjust your price to reflect this. If you want to "play a game" where you anticipate a number of rounds of haggling, then you might want to put an initial offer in below what you are prepared to pay, with the expectation that there will be further haggling. If you are clearly in two different places regarding price, then you need to be prepared to walk away and look at another boat. There's a good chance that if the boat is priced too much, it will still be for sale in a few weeks/months time.

Great advice Paul thanks.

 

Their are a few of those long standing at a marina we visited this weekend, non of them shouted out 'I am the one'.

 

At least from this thread weve had some good advice that a Hanbury is not for us, were definitely going for a second hand well built boat rather than a new built boat built on a low budget.

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If you want to find out more about their products why don't you ring Engines Plus (01453 547273, web site: http://www.enginesplus.co.uk ) who produce the Canaline range of engines and ask them. I used to work with three of the guys when I contracted briefly at Lister Petter at Dursley 1998/9. (Hedley Beavis and Martyn Harris were in Sales and Bob Cantwell was my boss in the Engine Applications Dept.) Bob Cantwell is very good technically and would be quite prepared to answer technical questions I am sure. They broke away from Lister Petter when it became obvious that LP was going down the pan and formed HMI Isuzu (IIRC) but when Isuzu withdrew their support for marine applications they then formed Engines Plus which marinise Isuzu and Kioti engines independently.

Hope this helps,

Roger

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  • 3 years later...

Canaline uses a Korean farm equipment engine brand called Kioti, with the engines built by Daedong. 

It is a common practice to leave off balancer shafts on industrial engines that are normally included on tractors. 

Why? I think they say if it is an industrial engine, mounted to a trailer or concrete pad, who cares if it shakes.

Some manufacturers also lighten the flywheel on industrial engines, and on fewer cylinders, that makes it rougher power.

I don't agree since vibration is the enemy of longevity, and more vibration caused by an engine has to be isolated better or the whole boat will become a sounding board for the vibrations.

 

It appears that Sole uses a combination of Mitsubishi and Kubota engine blocks and are marinized for boat use.

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I've just downloaded their brochure and their engines seem a reasonable price. Does anybody know what an approximate labour cost would be for the removing of my existing engine and fitting the new one?

 

I presume it will probably vary quite a bit depending on the boat and existing engine, but a 'ball park' figure will do. I'm guessing at about £3k???

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3 minutes ago, Grassman said:

I've just downloaded their brochure and their engines seem a reasonable price. Does anybody know what an approximate labour cost would be for the removing of my existing engine and fitting the new one?

 

I presume it will probably vary quite a bit depending on the boat and existing engine, but a 'ball park' figure will do. I'm guessing at about £3k???

Depends on what your original unit is. As I understand the Canaline is a straight drop in for a BMC 1.8D and for a BMC 1.5D with mounting spacers.

I also believe that they can use your existing gearbox in many cases, supplying the engine without a box but with the correct adaptor.

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From my experience with an H P I 42 unit,the horse power rating is at an engine speed that does not relate to canal use. The engine was an Isuzu 42hp. My engine was raw water cooled,(with a heat exchanger) which was normaly supplied suplied for sea going use, with a PRM 120, while the keel cooled unit was supplied with the PRM 150, Plenty of power for river use,but my engine would not rev beond 2,200 rpm(acording to the rev counter) I believe the base unit was not de-rated for marine use so the 42hp would be at the flywheel at somewhere near to 3,000 rpm? I believe the Canal line engine is the same unit.

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23 hours ago, Boater Sam said:

Depends on what your original unit is. As I understand the Canaline is a straight drop in for a BMC 1.8D and for a BMC 1.5D with mounting spacers.

I also believe that they can use your existing gearbox in many cases, supplying the engine without a box but with the correct adaptor.

That's good to hear. My existing engine is a BMC 1.8 so that should keep the cost of labour down then.

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20 hours ago, Boater Sam said:

BMC not repairable then?

Would be cheaper to fix it if it was not smashed badly rather than replace.

 

If you do swap out, I may be interested in your old BMC to recondition.

 

I've heard and read (on here I think) quite a few stories of people having their BMC's reconditioned and many of them have had bad experiences. I love my 22 year old BMC but it has done 12,000 hours and although it's running well (touch wood) and has been well looked after throughout it's life, I am taking an interest in what boaters say about other engines just in case it gives up and I need to replace it.

 

If or when this happens I will get in touch in case you still want it, but naturally I hope it isn't for a long time yet.

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33 minutes ago, Grassman said:

 

I've heard and read (on here I think) quite a few stories of people having their BMC's reconditioned and many of them have had bad experiences. I love my 22 year old BMC but it has done 12,000 hours and although it's running well (touch wood) and has been well looked after throughout it's life, I am taking an interest in what boaters say about other engines just in case it gives up and I need to replace it.

 

If or when this happens I will get in touch in case you still want it, but naturally I hope it isn't for a long time yet.

I am sure Richard Powell would rebuild it for you to what ever specification you wanted

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33 minutes ago, Grassman said:

 

I've heard and read (on here I think) quite a few stories of people having their BMC's reconditioned and many of them have had bad experiences. I love my 22 year old BMC but it has done 12,000 hours and although it's running well (touch wood) and has been well looked after throughout it's life, I am taking an interest in what boaters say about other engines just in case it gives up and I need to replace it.

 

If or when this happens I will get in touch in case you still want it, but naturally I hope it isn't for a long time yet.

12K hours, its just about run in.  I reckon 200 hours is about 5000 road miles so its about equivalent to 300,000 miles only

I have seen Sherpa vans with over 500K miles on the clock, total rusty wrecks but the engines have been in fair nick. 

So worry not, feed it clean oil and filters, thrash it once a month and it will be fine. Ignore the compulsory oil leaks from the lift pump and the timing cover, they all do.

 

Still, if you fancy a new one, I'll happily have the old BMC for some cash.

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