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BCN Tug Sultan


johnnywalker

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5 hours ago, Tonka said:

I think it was discussed in the thread about Canopus & Sculptor. I wont say anymore in case I upset someone. 

How interesting (not the upset bit) the boats that seem to have this bar / brace are quality builds, this one, Harris, Brinklow and the one being epoxied is a Tony Francis built boat from the early 90s. 
wont interject more in a fascinating thread, many thanks. 

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22 hours ago, Stroudwater1 said:

 What is the metal bar for between the prop and rudder? I was talking to someone epoxy painting a boat with one the other day who hadn’t been aware of one before. Is is merely  to keep the rudder attached more securely? 
 

 

This is the set up on a josher (Owl).  Someone has tried to make the rudder a little easier to turn by adding a small balance strip to the back edge.  This meant chopping a piece off the bracing strut.  Also someone has chopped a D shaped hole for the same reason.

I should point out that in my opinion neither modification was very successful - the boat is pretty heavy to steer round sharp bends.

 

P1050223.JPG.eeb433914607699125da91aa911bbc9c.JPG

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57 minutes ago, koukouvagia said:

 

This is the set up on a josher (Owl).  Someone has tried to make the rudder a little easier to turn by adding a small balance strip to the back edge.  This meant chopping a piece off the bracing strut.  Also someone has chopped a D shaped hole for the same reason.

I should point out that in my opinion neither modification was very successful - the boat is pretty heavy to steer round sharp bends.

 

P1050223.JPG.eeb433914607699125da91aa911bbc9c.JPG

strange that the cup for the rudder is not in the skeg

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I met sultan today at a silted up bridge hole on a bend! We both stopped in time….just!! Nice looking boat and much laughter once we had both extricated ourselves from the scenery…deep boats and shallow canals are what it’s all about. 

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  • 11 months later...
On 30/07/2021 at 11:25, Tonka said:

I think it was discussed in the thread about Canopus & Sculptor. I wont say anymore in case I upset someone. 

The strut between the skeg and counter bottom (I refuse to say u***r plate) is there to add support to the (longish) skeg mainly against the not impossible event of hanging the boat up on the skeg in a lock and bending it up enough to jam the rudder and make the boat unsteerable.  I dipped into the Canopus thread, and found some of the views expressed "interesting".   My boat Tantalus has such a strut, as did a number of others I built, and I have not heard from a single owner that it ever made steering difficult.

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30 minutes ago, malp said:

The strut between the skeg and counter bottom (I refuse to say u***r plate) is there to add support to the (longish) skeg mainly against the not impossible event of hanging the boat up on the skeg in a lock and bending it up enough to jam the rudder and make the boat unsteerable.  I dipped into the Canopus thread, and found some of the views expressed "interesting".   My boat Tantalus has such a strut, as did a number of others I built, and I have not heard from a single owner that it ever made steering difficult.

As i say my Dave Harris boat has one as well. The only downside to them as far as i can see is that it would need to be cut to remove the propshaft.

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Just now, Tonka said:

As i say my Dave Harris boat has one as well. The only downside to them as far as i can see is that it would need to be cut to remove the propshaft.

Depends where the engine is I guess!   With a forward engine room Tantalus has a Hardy Spicer intermediate shaft which can be dropped out of the way to draw the tail shaft inboard.

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I'm pretty sure I remember seeing Sultan when we were at the waterways festival at Windmill End in the early 80s on Firefly, Keith Jones's steamer -- given pride of place in the centre because President failed to make it.

 

There was a boat handling competition involving crossing and reversing at the junction which Sultan won, I still remember the twenty-foot long rooster-tail of water when the engine was opened up, it took off like a rocket... 🙂

Edited by IanD
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11 minutes ago, malp said:

All that remains of the Freeth Street premises now, just identifiable by the remaining bit of steel frame ....

 

index.jpg

While the building was not a thing of beauty, such photos are always sad.

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25 minutes ago, malp said:

All that remains of the Freeth Street premises now, just identifiable by the remaining bit of steel frame ....

 

index.jpg

May i ask Freeth Street, where as Freeth Street Oldbury does not appear to be near the canal

1 minute ago, Tonka said:

May i ask Freeth Street, where as Freeth Street Oldbury does not appear to be near the canal

Found it in Birmingham, on a loop. 

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3 minutes ago, Tonka said:

May i ask Freeth Street, where as Freeth Street Oldbury does not appear to be near the canal

Ladywood, Birmingham.   The canal is the Icknield Port Loop.

Edited by malp
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1 hour ago, malp said:

Another launch photo....
 

Sultan-launch-2.jpg

 

 

May I ask what went wrong there?

 

Was the launch technique to just push it sideways off the wharf into the cut? I can't work out what must have happened! 

 

Thanks for your interesting recent contributions here.

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2 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

 

May I ask what went wrong there?

 

Was the launch technique to just push it sideways off the wharf into the cut? I can't work out what must have happened! 

 

Thanks for your interesting recent contributions here.

Doesn't look to me as if anything has gone wrong. Sultan was launched endwise from a relatively narrow opening in the building, as shown in the pictures in an earlier post.

 

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2 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

 

May I ask what went wrong there?

 

Was the launch technique to just push it sideways off the wharf into the cut? I can't work out what must have happened! 

 

Thanks for your interesting recent contributions here.

 

Nothing went wrong, the boat was launched stern first.  There's a photo from JohnnyWalker earlier in the thread which shows that.  

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2 hours ago, malp said:

Another launch photo....
 

Sultan-launch-2.jpg

Assuming the stern end is afloat, rather than grounded in shallow water, I am genuinely surprised that there is enough flotation there to effectively support around what must be approximately half the weight of the shell.

 

I think I would expect the rear end to be inundated and sinking/sunk, rather that comfortably afloat, apparently with quite a bit of margin.

 

It would be interesting to see a video of a boat launched in similar manner.

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6 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:

Assuming the stern end is afloat, rather than grounded in shallow water, I am genuinely surprised that there is enough flotation there to effectively support around what must be approximately half the weight of the shell.

 

I think I would expect the rear end to be inundated and sinking/sunk, rather that comfortably afloat, apparently with quite a bit of margin.

 

It would be interesting to see a video of a boat launched in similar manner.

Yes, stern would have been afloat.  It was a bare shell with no ballast at that stage, so not so heavy.  It was also not the first to be launched from there in that way without problem.

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13 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:

Assuming the stern end is afloat, rather than grounded in shallow water, I am genuinely surprised that there is enough flotation there to effectively support around what must be approximately half the weight of the shell.

 

I think I would expect the rear end to be inundated and sinking/sunk, rather that comfortably afloat, apparently with quite a bit of margin.

 

It would be interesting to see a video of a boat launched in similar manner.

There's no ballast or heavy machinery in there yet, so presumably just the shell is considerably lighter? But it does look like not much hull is submerged especially given the deep swim, so maybe it is aground at the stern...

 

Ah, just seen malp's post... 😉

Edited by IanD
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On 30/07/2021 at 17:54, koukouvagia said:

 

This is the set up on a josher (Owl).  Someone has tried to make the rudder a little easier to turn by adding a small balance strip to the back edge.  This meant chopping a piece off the bracing strut.  Also someone has chopped a D shaped hole for the same reason.

I should point out that in my opinion neither modification was very successful - the boat is pretty heavy to steer round sharp bends.

 

P1050223.JPG.eeb433914607699125da91aa911bbc9c.JPG

 

On 30/07/2021 at 18:52, Tonka said:

strange that the cup for the rudder is not in the skeg

Not really, the set up on Owl is exactly as would be expected in a Josher of that age (1928), apart from the D shaped hole and the small balance plate. The skeg is a flat steel plate 1/2” or 5/8” thick, and approximately eight feet long, which would run ( in a composite boat) forwards under the bottom, and would be bolted up through the bottom boards and the keelson.  There are two tabs of angle riveted to the skeg which are bolted through the end of the stern post, and a further two angle tabs which are bolted through the bottom of the vertical skeg bar, both pairs of angles are visible in the photo. A third pair riveted to the sole plate are bolted through the top of the skeg bar, hence the skeg bar is held on with four bolts and is removable. The skeg itself, being of a flat piece  of plate, would not be strong enough without the skeg bar to reinforce it, and the bottom rudder cup is riveted to the skeg bar as well. This arrangement was the same on many wooden boats.

 

Yarwoods continued to build Joshers with this arrangement until 1934, when they changed to a one piece forged sternpost skeg and cup to the same design as Grand Union boats. I understand that the last one in the old style was the Dory, the first of the new was the Bramble. In the old style the rudder post is vertical, in the new the rudder post is angled backwards (at the top) so that the rudder is self centring, which also made these boats lighter to steer, as it gave more leverage at the height of the tiller

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