Cyclists. Sorry..

[Ricco1]

A good hill would cure all of my bodily problems by stopping my heart from beating permanently. Exercise is not a "one size fits all" activity; it is important to find an exercise regime that is beneficial but at the same time sympathetic to any medical problems one may have, and of course advancing years.

 

Yes but if you do a little more every day, eventually you'll be able to do Blaze Hill. I've a mate the same age as me, 53. A few years ago he was way overweight, did no exercise at all. Nowadays he can easily cycle from Macclesfield to Whaley Bridge. Rather him than me; I'd need to order an ambulance just before setting off.

[Guest]

 

Yes but if you do a little more every day, eventually you'll be able to do Blaze Hill. I've a mate the same age as me, 53. A few years ago he was way overweight, did no exercise at all. Nowadays he can easily cycle from Macclesfield to Whaley Bridge. Rather him than me; I'd need to order an ambulance just before setting off.

Nay I am too knackered now after years in industry. 20 years ago maybe. Broken spine amongst other things. I exercise a lot including swimming, a specialist gym, cycling walking etc, obviously supervised and within my capabilites, but could never do steep hills and stuff now, except in my dreams perhaps, or on my son's Honda.

Edited October 20, 2015 by Guest

[peterboat]

I guess you stepped backwards as the cyclist was going past you and the cyclist was probrably just as shocked as you even if he was going slow.

 

Boats bump into each other on the canal all the time so do people in general on the towpath, I dont see the need to start an anti cyclist thread.

 

Canals are for

 

Cyclists

Boats

Fishing Anglers

Walkers

Pedestrians

Tourists

Nature lovers

 

What ever next a thread called 'A Stupid Walker bumps into me as I was Tieing my boat up' ?

 

Nothing shocks me on this forum anymore.

you start it wrong canals are for boats first the rest are all secondary once upon a time you had to have a license/permit to ride a bike on the towpath maybe we should go back to that time.

[Guest]

you start it wrong canals are for boats first the rest are all secondary once upon a time you had to have a license/permit to ride a bike on the towpath maybe we should go back to that time.

We need to be careful with that argument. They were cut for working boats which leisure boats picked up on. Also the public have involuntarily contributed to the upkeep of canals for many years so have at least some claim towards them.

Boats pay quite a lot, but from last figures I saw, nowhere near the full cost of running the system. This may of course have changed in recent times.

[peterboat]

We need to be careful with that argument. They were cut for working boats which leisure boats picked up on. Also the public have involuntarily contributed to the upkeep of canals for many years so have at least some claim towards them.

Boats pay quite a lot, but from last figures I saw, nowhere near the full cost of running the system. This may of course have changed in recent times.

very true but they wernt restored for cyclists were they people did it for boating otherwise it would be easier to just concrete them over also the old railway lines are for the most part walk/cycleways. most cyclists are safe but one today tried to get past a reversing van and ran into it, it was the the cyclists fault but he did not see it that way even though 3 people pointed out the error he had made, he was just going to fast to stop.

[Guest]

very true but they wernt restored for cyclists were they people did it for boating otherwise it would be easier to just concrete them over also the old railway lines are for the most part walk/cycleways. most cyclists are safe but one today tried to get past a reversing van and ran into it, it was the the cyclists fault but he did not see it that way even though 3 people pointed out the error he had made, he was just going to fast to stop.

True but a lot of the money that went into keeping canals liquid did come from the public purse. I know volunteers (boaters and non-boaters alike) have done a fantastic job on many canals, my late dad and I did our bit when I was young, but we can never get away from the fact that boats only pay a portion of the upkeep. We must be careful not to try and claim that canals are somehow the domain of the narrowboat. I think it portrays us in a very bad light.

[Ricco1]

Nay I am too knackered now after years in industry. 20 years ago maybe. Broken spine amongst other things. I exercise a lot including swimming, a specialist gym, cycling walking etc, obviously supervised and within my capabilites, but could never do steep hills and stuff now, except in my dreams perhaps, or on my son's Honda.

 

I go up Blaze Hill regularly on my Honda, but only just. Your son's machine must be a powerful beast, quite unlike my 125.

 

I know what you mean about the passing of time though. I go surfing for a couple of months each winter. I've booked again but there's a certain dread. Probably be ok after a couple of weeks, use my experience to compete with the young bucks. That's the theory anyway.

[peterboat]

True but a lot of the money that went into keeping canals liquid did come from the public purse. I know volunteers (boaters and non-boaters alike) have done a fantastic job on many canals, my late dad and I did our bit when I was young, but we can never get away from the fact that boats only pay a portion of the upkeep. We must be careful not to try and claim that canals are somehow the domain of the narrowboat. I think it portrays us in a very bad light.

i do get you honest its all to used safely and thats when the issue of speeding cyclists comes in they arnt safe for walkers animals boaters more care has to exercised by them i have never been run over by a speeding walker.........yet

[Guest]

 

I go up Blaze Hill regularly on my Honda, but only just. Your son's machine must be a powerful beast, quite unlike my 125.

 

I know what you mean about the passing of time though. I go surfing for a couple of months each winter. I've booked again but there's a certain dread. Probably be ok after a couple of weeks, use my experience to compete with the young bucks. That's the theory anyway.

Sorry no idea where Blaze hill is.

 

There comes a time when all the training/exercise in the world won't make us 100% again. A bit like trying to get maximum horsepower from a worn out engine! I am rapidly becoming that engine!

[Guest]

i do get you honest its all to used safely and thats when the issue of speeding cyclists comes in they arnt safe for walkers animals boaters more care has to exercised by them i have never been run over by a speeding walker.........yet

I totally agree that speeding cyclists are becoming a problem. In fact I am told an elderly lady got mowed down by one on the Leigh Branch of the L&L this summer, but we were far away at the time. Something definitely needs doing before more accidents occur. I have said before that owing to hearing loss I am a likely contender as I walk a few miles a day on the cut with the dogs.

Even when I bike on the cut at my leisurely pace, I have had other bikes tear arse past me at very close quarters. Happily though most are still considerate, but it takes just a few to give us all a bad name

I have heard of walkers who have given up walking on the canal bank out of fear of being hit, and if accurate, it is disturbing.

[Peter-Bullfinch]

On the Calder and Hebble yesterday we were passed by large numbers of cyclists mid day. Every single one was courteous and friendly as they passed us. Mind you, I had a large thick hickory handspike in my hands for the locks.

The tow path here is a cycle route and is nice smooth tarmac around Brighouse way so it's a popular route.

[ditchcrawler]

Trouble is that it's taken as a "get out of my way" instead of an "excuse me, may I pass?"

A bit like sounding the boat horn is not seen as a signal, may be its a British thing, same as car horns, some countries its a constant bip bip bip

[ditchcrawler]

I guess that is the problem. When riding my own bike along the canal i often wonder whether I should or shouldn't sound the bell when approaching folk. I have taken to a couple of dings whilst saying "excuse me please." No probs. to date, but odds on there is going to be somebody who chastises me sometime. Then again I am too old and fat to ride fast, so am only going at a moderate pace.

That is what I use to do on the river bank back in the 60s when I use to do repairs to the holiday bungalows.

[Midnight]

I guess that is the problem. When riding my own bike along the canal i often wonder whether I should or shouldn't sound the bell when approaching folk. I have taken to a couple of dings whilst saying "excuse me please." No probs. to date, but odds on there is going to be somebody who chastises me sometime. Then again I am too old and fat to ride fast, so am only going at a moderate pace.

 

The method that works for me is similar. When tootling along the towpath on my Dahon folder I give two tings followed by "geriatric biker coming through too slow to be dangerous!" This gets a few smiles but I'm surprised just how many pedestrians I approach from behind jump out of their skins when they hear the two tings - must be conditioning.

[ditchcrawler]

 

I'm surprised just how many pedestrians I approach from behind jump out of their skins when they hear the two tings - must be conditioning.

No its just they have no idea anything or body is behind them

[Gordias]

If there really is a problem with cyclists using bells, maybe CaRT could be asked to do something about it.

 

I've spent several summers in a cycle-friendly city with shared cycle/pedestrian paths, and some simple rules that work quite well:

• Cycles must have a bell, but it's one that rings exactly once per normal operation, and they all sound the same (probably a standard tone, but it might be coincidence)
• If there's a "sharing issue" e.g. due to a narrow spot the cyclist must sound the bell
• Pedestrians must unblock the path after a cyclist sounds their bell if they can
• A cyclist may not run into a pedestrian (like hitting a car from behind - they're (kinda) "guilty until proven innocent")
• There are speed limits for cycles. They're ignored on empty paths of course, but cyclists slow down if there are too many pedestrians. Camera phones have made this work even better

Pedestrians are happy to hear a cycle bell from behind them, and will move aside.

 

This is good for everyone:

• Pedestrians don't have to defensively listen behind them
• Cyclists can make assumptions about how pedestrians react to the bell, which helps avoid over-braking and keeps their average speed up

 

CaRT could require cycle bells and the use of them (e.g. as above) as a requirement for cyclists sharing the towpath. And they could require pedestrians to act sensibly when they hear a bell, even where this isn't normal practice on local footpaths and roads.

They can probably set, but certainly can't enforce, speed limits - but they could perhaps make arrangements with the police so camera phone users could easily report dangerous cyclists

 

It won't sol

[zenataomm]

If there really is a problem with cyclists using bells, maybe CaRT could be asked to do something about it.

 

I've spent several summers in a cycle-friendly city with shared cycle/pedestrian paths, and some simple rules that work quite well:

• Cycles must have a bell, but it's one that rings exactly once per normal operation, and they all sound the same (probably a standard tone, but it might be coincidence)
• If there's a "sharing issue" e.g. due to a narrow spot the cyclist must sound the bell
• Pedestrians must unblock the path after a cyclist sounds their bell if they can
• A cyclist may not run into a pedestrian (like hitting a car from behind - they're (kinda) "guilty until proven innocent")
• There are speed limits for cycles. They're ignored on empty paths of course, but cyclists slow down if there are too many pedestrians. Camera phones have made this work even better

Pedestrians are happy to hear a cycle bell from behind them, and will move aside.

 

This is good for everyone:

• Pedestrians don't have to defensively listen behind them
• Cyclists can make assumptions about how pedestrians react to the bell, which helps avoid over-braking and keeps their average speed up

 

CaRT could require cycle bells and the use of them (e.g. as above) as a requirement for cyclists sharing the towpath. And they could require pedestrians to act sensibly when they hear a bell, even where this isn't normal practice on local footpaths and roads.

They can probably set, but certainly can't enforce, speed limits - but they could perhaps make arrangements with the police so camera phone users could easily report dangerous cyclists

 

It won't sol

 

I agree it won't sol

 

However I don't know why anyone needs to concentrate on there being a problem with cyclists using bells.

Surely the problem is cyclists traveling in a dangerous fashion?

[Gordias]

 

However I don't know why anyone needs to concentrate on there being a problem with cyclists using bells.

Surely the problem is cyclists traveling in a dangerous fashion?

 

I think that symptom-centric way of defining the problem is part of why it is difficult to deal with it. Something like trying to cure a broken arm with painkillers.

 

 

The symptom is a result of "human nature":

• Some people will want to move faster than everyone else, even when arriving a few seconds faster is the only thing achieved. Even when the only reason to travel is to do it quickly. We can find plenty of examples of this in the Olympic Games.
• Some people are inconsiderate, and prioritize their own interests and wishes over those of other people.

 

Nobody has ever found an easy way to persuade such people to change their behavior.

 

They can be made to change their behavior, but there are constraints. For example allowing pedestrians the use of shotgun blasts to the legs of cyclists speeding on a towpath would be effective, but it's not likely the law will be changed in that respect.

 

 

What remains for someone who'd like to remove the real symptom (which isn't fast cycling as such) is to find or devise something practical that would remove or mitigate the symptom.

 

I've described a proven and practical method, and suggested ways to think about applying it in the special case of canal towpaths. I'm not going to try to "sell" or defend it though. In my experience nothing is gained by discussing possible solutions with people who don't want one.

Edited October 22, 2015 by Gordias

[Rufford]

 

I agree it won't sol

 

However I don't know why anyone needs to concentrate on there being a problem with cyclists using bells.

Surely the problem is cyclists traveling in a dangerous fashion?

Not true. The cyclist that rode into me was being very careful, they rode slowly the issue was simply I was unaware he was behind me. Due to that I more than likely stepped into his corridor of travel. Bells or harmonica's would have prevented that.

[cuthound]

I agree it won't sol

 

However I don't know why anyone needs to concentrate on there being a problem with cyclists using bells.

Surely the problem is cyclists traveling in a dangerous fashion?

That and the difficulty in identifying thcem when they'd ride off after a collision. In my opinion bicycles should carry registration plates and compulsory 3rd party insurance.

[GreyLady]

I remember taking a slight shuffle to the left as I turned around to me right to see what was there as I could sense something.

Because I was turning and the bike was going slowly I didn't really take much of an impact, and I'm a big bloke so shrugged it off. The cyclist did seem rather concerned as another 18 inch and he would have been in the cut.

I am certainly not saying the cyclist was reckless, indeed he was going slow and had pratically stopped when he rode into me. However, it shocked me and it all could have been avoided if he had made his presence known to me.

I'm not wishing to start an anti cyclist rant, we are all on this world to get on, but it really did surprise me and it concerns me that a cyclist could get that close to me with out me hearing him or seeing him. And I have good eyesight and hearing.

Perhaps our grumble with cyclists could be remedied if they were to give a cheery hello upon approaching people.

Or perhaps a solemn sorry after they run into us... in all fairness to the chap on the bike (who didn't apologise) he was probably too shocked, embarrassed and wary of starting an argument to apologise.

 

You sound like a nice person to bump into, the cyclist sounds pretty rude not appologising.

 

 

Its a good job most people are nice people and the horrid a few and far.

On the Calder and Hebble yesterday we were passed by large numbers of cyclists mid day. Every single one was courteous and friendly as they passed us. Mind you, I had a large thick hickory handspike in my hands for the locks.

The tow path here is a cycle route and is nice smooth tarmac around Brighouse way so it's a popular route.

 

 

You would definitely get a hello from me too, ouch !

 

haha

[Midnight]

You sound like a nice person to bump into, the cyclist sounds pretty rude not appologising.

 

 

Its a good job most people are nice people and the horrid a few and far.

 

 

 

You would definitely get a hello from me too, ouch !

 

haha

 

There's the answer then - all pedestrians on the towpath should be fitted with a Calder & Hebble spike!

[zenataomm]

 

......................... The symptom is a result of "human nature":

• Some people will want to move faster than everyone else, even when arriving a few seconds faster is the only thing achieved. Even when the only reason to travel is to do it quickly. We can find plenty of examples of this in the Olympic Games.
• Some people are inconsiderate, and prioritize their own interests and wishes over those of other people.

 

Nobody has ever found an easy way to persuade such people to change their behavior.

 

They can be made to change their behavior, but there are constraints. For example allowing pedestrians the use of shotgun blasts to the legs of cyclists speeding on a towpath would be effective, but it's not likely the law will be changed in that respect.

 

 

What remains for someone who'd like to remove the real symptom (which isn't fast cycling as such) is to find or devise something practical that would remove or mitigate the symptom.

 

...................... In my experience nothing is gained by discussing possible solutions with people who don't want one.

 

I do actually agree with the sentiments of what you say, education is preferable and more effective than mere legislation.

However looking at Seat Belt and Drink Driving laws, the process was to appeal to common sense (Education) and then introduce laws to enforce.

This shows that eventually education isn't sufficient otherwise the laws wouldn't have been required. Sadly attitude towards using your mobile phone while driving doesn't appear to have been successful at either stage.

So what is the solution to people who don't want to hear a solution to their selfishness other than enforcement?

 

 

Not true. The cyclist that rode into me was being very careful, they rode slowly the issue was simply I was unaware he was behind me. Due to that I more than likely stepped into his corridor of travel. Bells or harmonica's would have prevented that.

 

I guess I wasn't considering your particular experience, apart from compulsorily implanting eyes in the back of other towpath users' heads I still regard responsibility to lie with the person who hits the one in front.

No different to the road, if you don't keep a safe distance from the one in front you're the one explaining why you drove into them.

The Highway Code (not applicable of course) states that if you drive around a corner and find a pedestrian already crossing the road they have right of way. I like the idea of harmonicas though.

 

That and the difficulty in identifying thcem when they'd ride off after a collision. In my opinion bicycles should carry registration plates and compulsory 3rd party insurance.

 

They have registration plates in some countries abroad, one I remember used the registration fee to fund 3rd party insurance. Of course we'd need an army of bureaucrats to run it at a loss!

 

It's not Bikes, bells or harmonicas that are the problem, it's selfish people who are either so self-centred or dim to appreciate it's not acceptable to act in a manner likely to endanger others or their property.

 

C&RT have encouraged this system to evolve, is it ethical for them to know ignore the problems it causes?

[Pluto]

If there really is a problem with cyclists using bells, maybe CaRT could be asked to do something about it.

 

I've spent several summers in a cycle-friendly city with shared cycle/pedestrian paths, and some simple rules that work quite well:

• Cycles must have a bell, but it's one that rings exactly once per normal operation, and they all sound the same (probably a standard tone, but it might be coincidence)
• If there's a "sharing issue" e.g. due to a narrow spot the cyclist must sound the bell
• Pedestrians must unblock the path after a cyclist sounds their bell if they can
• A cyclist may not run into a pedestrian (like hitting a car from behind - they're (kinda) "guilty until proven innocent")
• There are speed limits for cycles. They're ignored on empty paths of course, but cyclists slow down if there are too many pedestrians. Camera phones have made this work even better

Pedestrians are happy to hear a cycle bell from behind them, and will move aside.

 

This is good for everyone:

• Pedestrians don't have to defensively listen behind them
• Cyclists can make assumptions about how pedestrians react to the bell, which helps avoid over-braking and keeps their average speed up

 

Bells are fine as long as you are not deaf. Cyclists have to realise that just sounding a bell is not sufficient, and they need to understand that some people may have a disability.

[Guest]

Bells are fine as long as you are not deaf. Cyclists have to realise that just sounding a bell is not sufficient, and they need to understand that some people may have a disability.

True.