CRT buries the digital archive

[Laurence Hogg]

The new "Digital archive" was one of the few good things to come out of CRT in the last three years (Despite being a BW Idea).

 

The quick link on the homepage took you straight there and into whatever you were looking for.

 

Not any more.

 

The idiots who run the web pages and the lunatics that put them together have buried it deep within a single page.

 

So if you click on "History" from the homepage, don't expect to find it, theres other links there and of course as on every page the jaundiced face of "Humans of the Waterways".

 

What idiots are running this show?

 

When you do find it bookmark it so you wont waste another clicky session digging.!

 

Oh and don't forget to sign up to Morons Humanoids Humans of the Waterways ............

[Traveller]

Yawn!

 

I come on this site to read interesting stuff about boaty problems and experiences. I would much prefer all this anti stuff to be left to that "other" site. You may have had your problems with CRT (I do not know) but this sort of talk is not good. Idiot, lunatic are strong words and leave a nasty taste. I doubt the perpetrators meet the requirements to be called such.

[Rob-M]

Being a modern web site it provides a search capability and if you put archive and click search then funnily enough it takes you straight to the Digital Archive. Can't see what's wrong with that, exactly what I would expect from a modern, well designed web site. Well done to CRT and their web site developers.

[Graham Davis]

The new "Digital archive" was one of the few good things to come out of CRT in the last three years (Despite being a BW Idea).

 

The quick link on the homepage took you straight there and into whatever you were looking for.

 

Not any more.

 

The idiots who run the web pages and the lunatics that put them together have buried it deep within a single page.

 

So if you click on "History" from the homepage, don't expect to find it, theres other links there and of course as on every page the jaundiced face of "Humans of the Waterways".

 

What idiots are running this show?

 

When you do find it bookmark it so you wont waste another clicky session digging.!

 

Oh and don't forget to sign up to Morons Humanoids Humans of the Waterways ............

 

God!!

Remove the chip from your shoulder.

[valrene9600]

Just tried it on my phone. It works fine, did a search and found what I wanted.

Not sure why you have a problem.

[Wanted]

'Clicky session' - 1st world problem

[patty-ann]

Maybe LH having bad technology day..I have them all the time

He's had a rant..maybe feeling better now?

[Sea Dog]

Maybe LH having bad technology day..I have them all the time

He's had a rant..maybe feeling better now?

A good point Patty Ann, and nicely put too. The OP could well be feeling a bit of a silly Billy now someone's pointed out how easy it is.... when you know how. Move on.

[twbm]

Maybe LH having bad technology day..I have them all the time

He's had a rant..maybe feeling better now?

 

You could give him the benefit of the doubt if he didn't have so much 'previous' for this. I'm with the 'FFS move on' brigade.

[RLWP]

Just tried it on my phone. It works fine, did a search and found what I wanted.

Not sure why you have a problem.

 

What's the address please?

 

Richard

[Guest]

 

What's the address please?

 

Richard

 

http://collections.canalrivertrust.org.uk/home

The new "Digital archive" was one of the few good things to come out of CRT in the last three years (Despite being a BW Idea).

 

The quick link on the homepage took you straight there and into whatever you were looking for.

 

Not any more.

 

The idiots who run the web pages and the lunatics that put them together have buried it deep within a single page.

 

So if you click on "History" from the homepage, don't expect to find it, theres other links there and of course as on every page the jaundiced face of "Humans of the Waterways".

 

What idiots are running this show?

 

When you do find it bookmark it so you wont waste another clicky session digging.!

 

Oh and don't forget to sign up to Morons Humanoids Humans of the Waterways ............

 

Did you consider a simple search of 'Canal and river trust digital archive'. I did and it took me a lot less time to do than write out all of that.

[RLWP]

 

http://collections.canalrivertrust.org.uk/home

 

Thanks Martin

 

Richard

[mayalld]

The new "Digital archive" was one of the few good things to come out of CRT in the last three years (Despite being a BW Idea).

 

The quick link on the homepage took you straight there and into whatever you were looking for.

 

Not any more.

 

The idiots who run the web pages and the lunatics that put them together have buried it deep within a single page.

 

So if you click on "History" from the homepage, don't expect to find it, theres other links there and of course as on every page the jaundiced face of "Humans of the Waterways".

 

What idiots are running this show?

 

When you do find it bookmark it so you wont waste another clicky session digging.!

 

Oh and don't forget to sign up to Morons Humanoids Humans of the Waterways ............

 

Mr Shopkeeper, I would like to return this record what I purchased not 'alf an 'our ago.

 

It's broken!

[AMModels]

While I object most strongly to the use of the word lunatic in Laurence's original post, I understand where he's coming from.

The canals are sold to many as a historic gem, a way to get away from the hustle and bustle of the present and explore the motorways of the past.

How can people experience that online if the access point for that information is missing from the website? Do we just want the collection to be the haunt of those with a present interest in the historic aspects of waterways or do we want everyone to appreciate the centuries of history they are taking part in?

 

For me I cant understand why the decision was made to remove the access point to the archives from the website unless you do a site search for it, it doesnt make sense.

 

We all know of Laurence's beef with CRT, it's a genuine one and should never have been allowed to pass, its symptomatic of an organisation who see fishing and cycling as important if not more so than boating, you only have to see recent threads on here about both of those past times to see what I mean. Laurence raised these before and had this same reaction from many, I dont understand why unless people are happy to see boaters and boating relegated to a tertiary passing thought to a waterways dedicated to fishing and cycling.

 

Im glad Laurence flags these issues, we should all make more noise about them and not just pooh poohing noises to those that do.

[Laurence Hogg]

Ok so it was a rant! But I use this facility around half a dozen times a day in the course of work and answering queries. It is used by a lot of historians and it would be sensible to have a quick link on the front page.

 

You will notice now that there is a "report back" facility available, you can thank me for that, I constantly hassled Simon Salem to get that done before he left, however it will be interesting to see who "vets" the replies and decides what is correct.

[Guest]

Im glad Laurence flags these issues, we should all make more noise about them and not just pooh poohing noises to those that do.

 

Well given that finding it is hardly 'rocket science' I fail to see it as a big issue really. Though it would perhaps be better if a link existed on the main page because some people who may not know it even exists may not stumble upon it.

 

Those that use it regularly however could simply book mark it as suggested in the OP.

Edited October 12, 2015 by MJG

[p6rob]

 

Well given that finding it is hardly 'rocket science' I fail to see it as a big issue really. Though it would perhaps be better if a link existed on the main page because some people who may not know it even exists may not stumble upon it.

 

Those that use it regularly however could simply book mark it as suggested in the OP.

 

Playing devils advocate:

Perhaps they are mid way through re-designing the Digital Archive and in a testing phase, so have removed the direct link. I seem to remember there was a lot of criticism when it was first launched.

If not, then, it does seem a bit daft to make a valuable resource difficult to find. How many people, who don't know of it's existence would know the correct search term to 'find it'?

 

Rob

[AMModels]

 

Well given that finding it is hardly 'rocket science' I fail to see it as a big issue really. Though it would perhaps be better if a link existed on the main page because some people who may not know it even exists may not stumble upon it.

 

Those that use it regularly however could simply book mark it as suggested in the OP.

Its already in my bookmarks for that very reason but, we arent talking about regular users who know its there and who use it regularly we are talking about the people who are new to canals and may want to find a bit of their history or who have bought an old working boat and want to see pics of it.

 

As you say they may not know it even exists so why would they search for it?

 

A link on the home page of what is the the website of the governing body of a historical resource isnt too much to ask really.

[Guest]

Its already in my bookmarks for that very reason but, we arent talking about regular users who know its there and who use it regularly we are talking about the people who are new to canals and may want to find a bit of their history or who have bought an old working boat and want to see pics of it.

 

As you say they may not know it even exists so why would they search for it?

 

A link on the home page of what is the the website of the governing body of a historical resource isnt too much to ask really.

 

Which is precisely what I said.

 

Well given that finding it is hardly 'rocket science' I fail to see it as a big issue really. Though it would perhaps be better if a link existed on the main page because some people who may not know it even exists may not stumble upon it.

Those that use it regularly however could simply book mark it as suggested in the OP.

 

Playing devils advocate:

Perhaps they are mid way through re-designing the Digital Archive and in a testing phase, so have removed the direct link. I seem to remember there was a lot of criticism when it was first launched.

If not, then, it does seem a bit daft to make a valuable resource difficult to find. How many people, who don't know of it's existence would know the correct search term to 'find it'?

 

Rob

 

I suspect either the above or a simple web page redesign error that hasn't been picked up by them in testing.

Edited October 12, 2015 by MJG

[Laurence Hogg]

 

Playing devils advocate:

Perhaps they are mid way through re-designing the Digital Archive and in a testing phase, so have removed the direct link. I seem to remember there was a lot of criticism when it was first launched.

If not, then, it does seem a bit daft to make a valuable resource difficult to find. How many people, who don't know of it's existence would know the correct search term to 'find it'?

 

Rob

 

As far as I know no further major work is going on. The last thing added was the "Comment" box and previously again after much pressure they enlarged the pictures. Some of the enquires I have received from CRT staff over the last two weeks are for pictures I know are in the archive, maybe their own staff have experienced problems finding it. In all due, it seems only mention on the "Collections" page and no where else, even there the text is highlighted but no direct link.

They only had £50k to this job which at a guess they have gone through fairly well.

[alan_fincher]

Whilst not a fan of Laurence's style of complaining (!) I do think he has a point to some degree.

 

It is all very well saying "you can easily find it with a search facility", (whether that be Google or the web site's own), but that is only going to get people looking at it if they know it exists in the first place.

 

If some "portal" page never highlights it, most people visiting the CRT site would be unaware of something presumably put up for the benefit of all, rather than just those who know it exists and are prepared to hunt for it.

My frustrations with it are different.....

 

1) Reporting obvious errors does not seem to produce any kind of quick response or correction, (and from my experience you can delete the word "quick" from that statement!).

2) There seems to be no official facility to gain access to any photo you find, either in a higher resolution digital image, or even by buying a print. Enquiries I made seemed to say they didn't know where they were heading on this, or when.

3) (Personal gripe) I was given a promise of being sent a usable image of one photo that is of particular interest to me. That promise was voluntarily given, I didn't ask for it. However nothing ever arrived, and when I sent a polite request as to whether anything might, it was ignored.

I'm not sure how useful the archive currently is is, given the poor description of most photos, a general lack of organisation and any sensible indexing, and no facility to get anything more than the small image that appears on-line.

If any of my gripe is actually outdated, and things have improved, then I have seen nothing that suggests this.

[Alenafour]

 

 

For me I cant understand why the decision was made to remove the access point to the archives from the website unless you do a site search for it, it doesnt make sense.

 

 

Exactly! While you can still search for it, surely it is beholden on a body providing a service to the general public - not just the cognoscenti - to make the public explicitly aware of such a heritage resource.

 

To bury it - I agree with Laurence's wording - is a dereliction of their duty as custodians of such an important resource.

 

If they hold it in such contempt they should pass it to someone who will make it publicly available and obvious.

[Laurence Hogg]

Reading Alenafour and Alan Finchers replies above worries me more. Just who is the "expert" or are "Experts" at Ellesmere Port who can guide or help an enquirer?

I know no names which fit that bill and as Alan has pointed out and I can concur, you don't get a reply or see a change if you email in.

Peraph's they haven't the resources to continue with this archive and have "buried" it so it gets more or less forgotten. Then it can be taken down and that's that.

 

I have along with others suggested teams were formed of volunteer enthusiasts, each "expert" in a certain fields to try and sort the mistakes, Simon Salem was keen on this but nothing actually ever happened.

[mayalld]

Whilst not a fan of Laurence's style of complaining (!) I do think he has a point to some degree.

 

And you hit the nail squarely on the head!

 

Some people have a talent for taking what might be a relatively minor, but justified gripe, and over-egging it to the extent that it is dismissed.

 

Spectacular own goal.

[Laurence Hogg]

And you hit the nail squarely on the head!

 

Some people have a talent for taking what might be a relatively minor, but justified gripe, and over-egging it to the extent that it is dismissed.

 

Spectacular own goal.

Some people have a talent for stepping into conversations they know little about. I have worked collecting material for years, much of which is within the CRT archive, yes I do think access is important and experts should be involved asap. I am sure Mr Myall in all the years and hours you have spent contributing to conservation and enrichment of our waterway heritage you would not disagree. Remind me again what it is that makes you so well educated on archival matters?