Pete Harrison

[Guest]

Last post in this thread is Pete's last post prior to this one:

 

http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=79817&page=2

Thanks I get the issue that seems to have triggered this now....

Edited October 11, 2015 by MJG

[Tuscan]

A real loss, I would not have found half the history I now have on Aber without your willingly given assistance.

[Alenafour]

I would hope Pete, with his vast and unique knowledge and exhaustively anorak research skills will be adult enough and magnanimous enough to return to his normal generous and open self once the apology and corrections are published.

 

I am not sure why this has not already happened, perhaps Katherine is busy with other stuff but she should prioritise it. It is important.

 

I would guess that this wrong attribution is particularly stinging because of to whom Pete's work was attributed.

 

C'mon guys this is not a religious schism. Sort it out.

Edited October 11, 2015 by Alenafour

[cheshire~rose]

As someone who has had the benefit of Pete's help for Python I am deeply saddened to read this. Not only did he freely provide a wealth of information about Python but he also helped me to understand what those details meant. This is the very information that Chesterfield Canal Trust went on to quote in the applications for the grants we won that have saved her. We will be forever indebted to Pete for that.

A huge loss to the historic boating community. I hope whoever it is that has caused this has a rethink about their actions and the wider effect this can have

[Athy]

Having read many of his posts, I think of this gentleman as "Professor Harrison", and for once I am not joking. I hope we shall see him again when he's good and ready.

[Ray T]

I for one do not think there was any "malice aforethought" here, just a human slip up. I personally would not like to see any form of a "witch hunt" against anyone, not at all saying there would be one.

 

We may potentially loose three contributors of valuable information here, although one of them is not a forum member, far as I am aware.

 

The above are my thoughts and mine only. I do not expect everybody to agree with remarks I state on this forum.

Edited October 11, 2015 by Ray T

[mark99]

Take a break Pete and come back. Probably an over-enthusiatic oversight. (If that's the issue we think it is).

 

I remember once my company (a chap that I sat next to) made a clever spreadsheet of engineering energy calcs, we marketed it and were about to sell it and it got out. At a meeting (at a Gov dept I may add!), a fellow excitedly showed me this piece of software that had it's security cracked and said "have you seen this I just got" wink wink ...... I was pretty dumbfounded.

Edited October 11, 2015 by mark99

[Guest User]

Just to add that I too find Pete Harrison's posts on boats' histories fascinating, clearly the result of years of passionate research, and as Cheshire~Rose points out, his work has helped gain funding. I do hope that behind the scenes there's a conversation going on to re-build bridges and amend the Sculptor Blogspot and the HNBC content. To echo Alenafour's sentiment, the historic boats need friends not factions.

 

LCx

Edited October 11, 2015 by Lady Cassandra

[David Schweizer]

Whilst i have some sympathy for Pete, discovering that work researched by him has been credited to someone else on a public website, I am confused as to why he is taking it out on the Canal World forum. Is there a suggestion that forum users are plagiarizing information provided by him, and putting it into the public domain as their work?

 

One of the dangers of placing any information onto the internet is that anyone can copy it and republish it as their own work, with little recompense. If Pete published his research in written format, he would have legal rights afforded to him, but I understand he is reluctant to go down the publishing route.

Edited October 11, 2015 by David Schweizer

[magnetman]

Good point David - I for one think he should publish. I have often wondered what happens to all this valuable information when the person dies.

I am not saying he is at deaths door but no-one is immortal yet

 

I guess it's all very personal but it would be nice to think the information gathered will be available in some form or another for future owners of old canal boats.

 

Anyway its not for me or anyone else to say what he does with his own research but I have really appreciated his input over the years and hope this is simply a short term "flounce" as they say.

[bizzard]

When I die folk are quite welcome to all my online rubbish.

[Guest]

It was he who provided the majority of the information but I have to conceed you did too so I shall add that. My apologies.

and from the offending blog.......

Sculptor's history

I am indebted to David Blagrove for the words and the word smithing that go to make up this history of Sculptor. Sculptor is also a recognised historic ship and is on the historic ships register. Pete Harrison also provided a large number of points of detail which I failed to include originally - and I am most grateful to him for his help and for providing the information.

So I am not sure what else Kathryn can do really.

Edited October 11, 2015 by MJG

[alan_fincher]

Whilst i have some sympathy for Pete, discovering that work researched by him has been credited to someone else on a public website, I am confused as to why he is taking it out on the Canal World forum. Is there a suggestion that forum users are plagiarizing information provided by him, and putting it into the public domain as their work?

 

One of the dangers of placing any information onto the internet is that anyone can copy it and republish it as their own work, with little recompense. If Pete published his research in written format, he would have legal rights afforded to him, but I understand he is reluctant to go down the publishing route.

This is not, I feel sure, just about putting stuff on the Internet.

 

Pete obviously chooses what he does, or does not put on the Internet, but he will also send details of his researches of a particular boat to their owners upon request, (or at least has until now).

 

If the people receiving that information then openly publish it is large amounts without acknowledging Pete's contribution, then to me, that seems pretty poor form. (EDIT: To be clear here, I am talking about a general principle, and would not wish to get into the specifics of any particular case)

 

If Pete has decided to stop posting here, it is very sad, but if he were also dissuaded from passing on his researches to the owners of the boats themselves, then, in my view, that is far more of a tragedy.

Edited October 11, 2015 by alan_fincher

[Laurence Hogg]

I fully understand why Pete has taken this step. The "Sculptor" description attributed to David Blagrove is a blatant example of how people do not appreciate the time and effort involved in getting that information extracted in the first place.

When you do something out of your interest for someone else if they are going to use it commercially then an acknowledgement of source should be there.

 

I see photos published which I know originated here as they have been adjusted or the tell tale mark of my scanner is present yet often no credit of source or an incorrect credit to source.

 

CRT are just as bad, I currently have two enquires I cannot be bothered to answer as what they want is in their own archives yet they seem unable to find it, or as is probably the truth haven't even tried.

 

There are getting fewer specialists now to call on, we are all getting old and now people with active experience of the 60's. 70's in particular are thinning.

 

Lets see a little more respect for peoples work gathering this archive, at the end of the day where else is the information going to come from?

[Guest User]

 

and from the offending blog.......

Sculptor's history

I am indebted to David Blagrove for the words and the word smithing that go to make up this history of Sculptor. Sculptor is also a recognised historic ship and is on the historic ships register. Pete Harrison also provided a large number of points of detail which I failed to include originally - and I am most grateful to him for his help and for providing the information.

So I am not sure what else Kathryn can do really.

 

 

.... but as I alluded to earlier, the Sculptor blog links to the HNBC site where the same information, with the same mis-acredditation, is repeated.

 

LCx

[Athy]

I hope that Pete doesn't do what one paranoid researcher (in a field far removed from boats) used to do: deliberately insert completely false bits of information, which he called "bombs", in his published work, so that he could tell if anyone else was passing his research off as his own. Since he was probably as well respected in his field, which was discography, as Prof. Harrison is in the world of working canal boats, this had disastrous results, as once such a "truth" gets on to the internet it is taken as gospel by many viewers and gradually becomes accepted as fact.

[Guest]

 

.... but as I alluded to earlier, the Sculptor blog links to the HNBC site where the same information, with the same mis-acredditation, is repeated.

 

LCx

 

Ah right I see. Perhaps just an issue of timing or editing privileges and the info. may be updated in due course....hopefully.

 

http://hnbc.org.uk/boats/sculptor

 

Sculptor

Information researched by David Blagrove (supplied by............, December 2013):

Edited October 11, 2015 by MJG

[alan_fincher]

I hope that Pete doesn't do what one paranoid researcher (in a field far removed from boats) used to do: deliberately insert completely false bits of information, which he called "bombs", in his published work, so that he could tell if anyone else was passing his research off as his own. Since he was probably as well respected in his field, which was discography, as Prof. Harrison is in the world of working canal boats, this had disastrous results, as once such a "truth" gets on to the internet it is taken as gospel by many viewers and gradually becomes accepted as fact.

 

As I have already indicated, I eventually introduced a deliberate howler into my own family tree, to prove plagiarism.

 

There are many on-line "Fincher" family trees now that have the fictitious character I added to me own tree.

 

Part of my previous post....

 

The problem of course is that it does not prevent others "lifting any data used, and then making no effort to credit the source. As a former family history researcher I got quite used to people "lifting" chunks of my own family tree, and adding it to their own works of fiction. (I could be absolutely sure they were plagiarising, because eventually I deliberately wrote in an error, and could then see that error copied by others). I never actually found the tree by somebody else that proved I was descended from William the Conqueror, but some of the trees my family got added to were nearly as big in terms of fictional content!

[Alenafour]

 

 

 

and from the offending blog.......

 

Sculptor's history

 

I am indebted to David Blagrove for the words and the word smithing that go to make up this history of Sculptor. Sculptor is also a recognised historic ship and is on the historic ships register. Pete Harrison also provided a large number of points of detail which I failed to include originally - and I am most grateful to him for his help and for providing the information.

 

So I am not sure what else Kathryn can do really.

Pete initially claimed authorship of the first 5 paragraphs of the history but has since removed this from his post.

[pete harrison]

Pete initially claimed authorship of the first 5 paragraphs of the history but has since removed this from his post.

I removed that last sentence because my words were badly chosen.

 

The first 5 paragraphs were written by Mr Blagrove in or around December 2013 (date given on the HNBC website). I supplied the history of SCULPTOR on 25 February 2014, and it is details from this document that were directly incorporated into the SCULPTOR webpage, and because of the introduction appeared to have come from Mr Blagrove himself.

 

edit = I am not interested in being credited for my input, but equally I do not expect to see my research being credited to somebody else.

Edited October 11, 2015 by pete harrison

[furnessvale]

Pete,

 

I understand your frustration as I know this is not the first time this has happened to you.

 

Please don't punish us all for the actions of the few.

 

Your work and knowledge is invaluable and will be sorely missed. I have been building a history of BADGER down to the level of individual cargoes carried on specific dates, all backed up by documents. Perhaps it is too much detail for the work you undertake, but I was hoping to send you a copy to be lodged in your archive knowing it will be safe.

 

George ex nb Alton retired

[magnetman]

When I die folk are quite welcome to all my online rubbish.

Even the bogroll holder ?

[Nightwatch]

Pete. I don't know you, nor do I have a personal need for specific history or historic details of any particular boat.

 

But I for one,would still value your input into various threads where others are seeking historical information.

 

If this can be sorted, maybe with clarification and if needs be an apology, I will be grateful.

 

Martyn.

[bizzard]

Even the bogroll holder ?

No!!! no!! That is an absolute exception I'm afraid. Due to its ultra high tech and complex design (As depicted in my ''How to make ''topic) which soaked up all my brain power and energy for yonks during its intensive development and throughout its thorough testing program, the ergonomics and safety aspects of the design of it were especially taxing. For months I was short of one!, just one! Staple. Countless Sleepless nights ensued with head banging and bottles of headache pills consumed until finally I had the finished prototype perfected and finished and what a lesson in absolute perfection it is too, I don't mind saying so myself, before I ventured to present it to the whole wide world via this ere forum. So no, not on your Nellie.

[Catrin]

 

As I have already indicated, I eventually introduced a deliberate howler into my own family tree, to prove plagiarism.

 

There are many on-line "Fincher" family trees now that have the fictitious character I added to me own tree.

 

Part of my previous post....

 

 

Mountweazle

 

and more about her HERE.