Help Me Choose A Morse or Teleflex Type Control Please

[cheshire~rose]

I need to replace the worn out controller on the historic boat Python.

 

I was told to get a "good quality" one but to be perfectly frank with you I would not know a good quality one if it hit me in the face!

 

Apart from using one to make a boat go I have never really taken any notice of them or looked inside to see how they work and so I am hoping some people who know their stuff here can guide me.

 

Firstly will any old controller fit or do I need to look at how the existing one is located to rule out buyng the wrong thing. If so what are the key things I need to look at please?

 

Secondly what brands are good? What retailers have good prices and how much do we really need to pay to get something that that will be "good quality"

 

I think the only other thing is we don't want anything that looks too modern of flashy. It is on a historic boat and so if it looks like it could have been something BW fitted in the 80's then that would be ideal!

 

I have been told the existing worn out one is something that probably came from somewhere like Midland Chandlers. It does not appear to have any obvious makers name on it. I have a couple of poor quality pictures which I won't bother posting right now but I can get some better ones tomorrow if needed.

[Guest]

I need to replace the worn out controller on the historic boat Python.

 

I was told to get a "good quality" one but to be perfectly frank with you I would not know a good quality one if it hit me in the face!

 

Apart from using one to make a boat go I have never really taken any notice of them or looked inside to see how they work and so I am hoping some people who know their stuff here can guide me.

 

Firstly will any old controller fit or do I need to look at how the existing one is located to rule out buyng the wrong thing. If so what are the key things I need to look at please?

 

Secondly what brands are good? What retailers have good prices and how much do we really need to pay to get something that that will be "good quality"

 

I think the only other thing is we don't want anything that looks too modern of flashy. It is on a historic boat and so if it looks like it could have been something BW fitted in the 80's then that would be ideal!

 

I have been told the existing worn out one is something that probably came from somewhere like Midland Chandlers. It does not appear to have any obvious makers name on it. I have a couple of poor quality pictures which I won't bother posting right now but I can get some better ones tomorrow if needed.

 

The Dog House had an MV-2 like the one in this post by Ray T. It's quite 'retro' looking and in the 5 years we had the boat (and presumably since new) it proved to be totally reliable.

 

You lift the collar to move it forward/backward and engage disengage it using the silver button you can see on the base.

 

http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=73426&p=1495642

 

ed to correct link.

Edited September 28, 2015 by MJG

[magnetman]

On an old boat I would try to find a second hand Morse teleflex MT3 single lever control. Nice bit of chrome.

 

There was one on eBay a few days ago I think it has ended though.

 

Will look for a link

[cheshire~rose]

 

The Dog House had an MV-2 like the one in this post by Ray T. It's quite 'retro' looking and in the 5 years we had the boat (and presumably since new) it proved to be totally reliable.

 

You lift the collar to move it forward/backward and engage disengage it using the silver button you can see on the base.

 

http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=73426&p=1495642

 

ed to correct link.

 

Thanks, it looks like that model is obsolete now

On an old boat I would try to find a second hand Morse teleflex MT3 single lever control. Nice bit of chrome.

 

There was one on eBay a few days ago I think it has ended though.

 

Will look for a link

 

Thank you

[magnetman]

Someone got a bargain on this one IMO

http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=252084194930

(That one does need a horizontal surface to sit on - they do a similar one for vertical mounting)

[Ray T]

Teleflex here: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-Teleflex-Single-Lever-Side-Mount-Inboard-Engine-VIRE-etc-Control-cables-/231199468835?hash=item35d48fed23

 

Not cheap though.

[David Mack]

As a historic boat, do you want a Morse lever, or to go back to a speedwheel and fore-and-aft gear control as would have been fitted originally?

[bizzard]

Does the boat need a dual control. Does it have a hydraulic gearbox or an easy shift mechanical Hurth-Technodrive box or something, If a traditional heavy manual box it would only need a throttle control.

[cheshire~rose]

Someone got a bargain on this one IMO

http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=252084194930

(That one does need a horizontal surface to sit on - they do a similar one for vertical mounting)

 

I have seen the vertical ones, we need a vertical one

[cheshire~rose]

As a historic boat, do you want a Morse lever, or to go back to a speedwheel and fore-and-aft gear control as would have been fitted originally?

 

No we don't want to convert back. The engine is in the compartment at the stern just forward of the steerer rather than being in a separate engine hole further down the boat. There is no back cabin.

 

The boat was converted in the 80's to be a maintenance craft and at that point the current air cooled Lister was fitted with a morse control. As a very large number of this type of conversion have since either been scrapped or de-converted we decided that keeping her as close as possible to how she was during the last period of her proper working life would preserve her heritage and save Chesterfield Canal Trust, her owners, some money. Putting an original style cabin on her and a lot of feet back in her hull would cost an absolute fortune

 

I can't replace the dodgy control with an identical unit (and as it has been suggested it was never a very good one anyway I have no desire to) so just something that doesn't look too flashy will be fine

 

Edited September 28, 2015 by cheshire~rose

[alan_fincher]

Does the boat need a dual control. Does it have a hydraulic gearbox or an easy shift mechanical Hurth-Technodrive box or something, If a traditional heavy manual box it would only need a throttle control.

^^^^^^^

 

This!

 

Does the control you are replacing operate an hydraulic gear box via cable?

 

Or, (as I think it is an HA?), are the gears separately contolled by some clunky lever.

 

If the latter, hard to see why any "Morse type" control is required - you would only need the most basic of lever it it doesn't actuate the gears.

[cheshire~rose]

Does the boat need a dual control. Does it have a hydraulic gearbox or an easy shift mechanical Hurth-Technodrive box or something, If a traditional heavy manual box it would only need a throttle control.

 

It is a Hurth box. I can find the model for you later

 

I am really sorry to anyone I have not replied to yet, I have to dash out to a meeting now. I will get back to you all later

[alan_fincher]

 

It is a Hurth box. I can find the model for you later

 

I am really sorry to anyone I have not replied to yet, I have to dash out to a meeting now. I will get back to you all later

 

OK, so probably hydraulic then?

 

Unusual in a BW work boat - is this what was in it when your Trust got custody?

 

(I'm guessing the answer is "yes"?......)

Edited September 28, 2015 by alan_fincher

[Guest User]

If you want dual control how about http://www.asap-supplies.com/marine/side-mounted-single-lever-boat-controls/engine-and-gear-change-control-unit-side-mounted-single-sico

 

Or, if you want single control ? http://www.asap-supplies.com/marine/side-mounted-single-lever-boat-controls/single-function-control-unit-side-mounted-single-607251

 

LCx

[bizzard]

As Magnetman mentioned the old Morse MT3 are virtually indestructible, all metal, no plastic apart from the knob, I have one which must be about 50 years old. Levers on these and most modern ones can be positioned more or less where you want them, horizontal or vertical as they can be adapted inside or the levers shafts are splined or on a square.

[Postcode]

I am replying on behalf of Jan.

 

The current control is an MV2 which is missing its knob and the mechanism is pretty much worn out. It operates the throttle by the lever and the gearchange by lifting the collar. Obviously a replacement MV2 would be easiest but it is now obsolete which is a problem.

 

The MV3 which replaces it is expensive and would not be a direct replacement. It was suggested that there are better and cheaper alternatives available.

[nb Innisfree]

On Innisfree I fitted a used inshore lifeboat morse control, got it from a boat jumble, workmanlike chunky and well engineered.

[magnetman]

As Magnetman mentioned the old Morse MT3 are virtually indestructible, all metal, no plastic apart from the knob, I have one which must be about 50 years old. Levers on these and most modern ones can be positioned more or less where you want them, horizontal or vertical as they can be adapted inside or the levers shafts are splined or on a square.

When I mentioned the location of the control I was thinking about the actual surface that the control would Mount onto not the angle of the lever

 

For example I have a TFX700 (http://www.asap-supplies.com/brands/teleflex/engine-and-gear-change-control-unit-top-mounted-single-606135 )on my barge and that can only be mounted on a horizontal or slightly sloping surface which I think is the same situation with the eBay one I linked to.

 

Eta well I suppose it could be mounted on a vertical surface but neutral would not be vertical and the whole unit would stick out a bit excessively.

[Ray T]

Morse knob here:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MORSE-TELEFLEX-SEASTAR-SOLUTIONS-MT3-MT2-CONTROL-BLACK-KNOB-TX035232-004-/281808886343?hash=item419d1e5a47

 

Or I have used one of these, a lot cheaper:

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5pcs-Black-Arcade-Game-Machine-Threaded-Ball-Handle-Knob-35mm-x-10mm-/291575591988?hash=item43e3427434

 

May need a sleeve I used some plastic tubing and a dollop of Gorilla Glue.

 

Also: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Arcade-Game-Joystick-Machine-Handle-Ball-Knob-Black-35mm-Diameter-10mm-Thread/191676745799?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D33487%26meid%3D0b14550cfb4b4df9bb2ab25975898ee9%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D291575591988

 

This is a games controller knob I fitted to CF:

 

 

 

ETA. After typing all that out I have remembered I have a 2nd hand Morse MV2 lever complete with knob you are welcome to.

 

 

Edited September 28, 2015 by Ray T

[Ray T]

Cheshire see this thread Postcode posted in.

 

http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=73426&hl=

[Guest]

I am replying on behalf of Jan.

The current control is an MV2 which is missing its knob and the mechanism is pretty much worn out. It operates the throttle by the lever and the gearchange by lifting the collar. Obviously a replacement MV2 would be easiest but it is now obsolete which is a problem.

The MV3 which replaces it is expensive and would not be a direct replacement. It was suggested that there are better and cheaper alternatives available.

I doubt better ones could be had. As I said earlier ours was fault free for nine years and how long has Python had the on its got?

 

Does everybody that steers it know they need to lift the collar to change direction? When we first had the Dog House I didn't immediately realise you had to and it is possible to force it without lifting the collar. If that is done regularly I reckon damage will result.

I twigged what I was doing wrong after a few attempts of forcing it, thankfully.

[Phil Ambrose]

I have what I think is a MV2 and it tends to slip with the revs falling off. I have had it apart but found no way of inducing any friction to get it to hold, so I simply took a rubber wedge door stop and cut it about a bit so that all I do now is when I set the revs I push my stop over the lever and voila it stays put. The "stop" does not me from moving the lever so no danger of accidents happening. A bit of string in the form of a loop prevents the stop falling underfoot.

Phil

[cheshire~rose]

 

OK, so probably hydraulic then?

 

Unusual in a BW work boat - is this what was in it when your Trust got custody?

 

(I'm guessing the answer is "yes"?......)

 

Yes it is the same one that has been fitted throughout The Trust's ownership. I think there were a few things that were a little experimental about the design at that time

If you want dual control how about http://www.asap-supplies.com/marine/side-mounted-single-lever-boat-controls/engine-and-gear-change-control-unit-side-mounted-single-sico

 

 

 

That looks rather nice!

Cheshire see this thread Postcode posted in.

 

http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=73426&hl=

 

Thank you!

 

You just can't get the staff can you?

[cheshire~rose]

Morse knob here:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MORSE-TELEFLEX-SEASTAR-SOLUTIONS-MT3-MT2-CONTROL-BLACK-KNOB-TX035232-004-/281808886343?hash=item419d1e5a47

 

Or I have used one of these, a lot cheaper:

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5pcs-Black-Arcade-Game-Machine-Threaded-Ball-Handle-Knob-35mm-x-10mm-/291575591988?hash=item43e3427434

 

May need a sleeve I used some plastic tubing and a dollop of Gorilla Glue.

 

Also: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Arcade-Game-Joystick-Machine-Handle-Ball-Knob-Black-35mm-Diameter-10mm-Thread/191676745799?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D33487%26meid%3D0b14550cfb4b4df9bb2ab25975898ee9%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D291575591988

 

This is a games controller knob I fitted to CF:

 

DSCF2037.JPG

 

ETA. After typing all that out I have remembered I have a 2nd hand Morse MV2 lever complete with knob you are welcome to.

 

DSCF2433.JPG

 

Thanks for all that Ray, I really don't believe it is just the knob we need though. One of the crew stripped it apart to investigate what the problem was a couple of years ago (before she was condemned!) and reported that the mechanism was extremely worn. He said he had tried to turn some of the worn parts around so they were working on a face that was not worn but it really didn't improve the situation and we had decided we would look at replacing it when we got her "home" at the end of the season. Two years down the line and she has still not "come home" and of course it is only now we remember we were planning to replace it so, we may as well get it sorted while the engine is being refitted.

I doubt better ones could be had. As I said earlier ours was fault free for nine years and how long has Python had the on its got?

 

Does everybody that steers it know they need to lift the collar to change direction? When we first had the Dog House I didn't immediately realise you had to and it is possible to force it without lifting the collar. If that is done regularly I reckon damage will result.

I twigged what I was doing wrong after a few attempts of forcing it, thankfully.

 

I have no way of knowing how long the one that is fitted has been on there but if they are as bullet proof as you suggest then probably since 1982 which might be why it is so worn!

 

As far as I am aware everyone knows but thanks for the reminder, there are a number of new crew members getting involved and it doesn't hurt to just make sure they understand the basics

I have what I think is a MV2 and it tends to slip with the revs falling off. I have had it apart but found no way of inducing any friction to get it to hold, so I simply took a rubber wedge door stop and cut it about a bit so that all I do now is when I set the revs I push my stop over the lever and voila it stays put. The "stop" does not me from moving the lever so no danger of accidents happening. A bit of string in the form of a loop prevents the stop falling underfoot.

Phil

 

It doesn't actually slip, it is very hard to describe exactly what the problems are (especially as it has been two years since I used it!) I would say it is clunky and imprecise. It tends to feel notchy rather than smooth.

I am replying on behalf of Jan.

 

The current control is an MV2 which is missing its knob and the mechanism is pretty much worn out. It operates the throttle by the lever and the gearchange by lifting the collar. Obviously a replacement MV2 would be easiest but it is now obsolete which is a problem.

 

The MV3 which replaces it is expensive and would not be a direct replacement. It was suggested that there are better and cheaper alternatives available.

 

Apologies for my husband hijacking someone elses thread!

 

I wonder if a kind moderator can move the stuff to the other thread?

[cheshire~rose]

Thank you to whichever moderator sorted out the mixed up threads for me