CRT has to say sorry - I think this is really bad

[Rambling]

excellent post Tidal.

 

My mooring is 50 weeks per year or something strange like that. There are 2 weeks of the year that you are not 'supposed' to be there and I have seen park homes that are exactly the same. I pay council tax.

[Jerra]

Your just being silly. Looking to get out of a hole you have dug yet again. The fact is quite clear, bwml apologised because they "realized" they had done something not quite above board. Thank goodness some don't wear tinted specs.

No you are being silly. Talking to the appropriate authorities is above board other approaches aren't. Your suggestion is a bit like saying " I saw this bloke break into a house but I will have a word with him rather than the police". Note I say a bit like not exactlt like.

 

So if CRT had approached the marina owner/manager and been given some cock and bull story that would have been OK? CRT had no way of checking if what they would have been told was correct only the council would so they correctly went to the council

 

It appears to me there is too much of a vested interest in many replies.

Is there a national planning regulation that defines what is and isn't classed as residential use of a mooring?

is it, as many park homes are, limited by the number of days one stays?

I think it depends on the planning permission our holiday let is no more than 13 weeks occupancy by the same people.

[jenlyn]

No you are being silly. Talking to the appropriate authorities is above board other approaches aren't. Your suggestion is a bit like saying " I saw this bloke break into a house but I will have a word with him rather than the police". Note I say a bit like not exactlt like.

 

So if CRT had approached the marina owner/manager and been given some cock and bull story that would have been OK? CRT had no way of checking if what they would have been told was correct only the council would so they correctly went to the council

 

It appears to me there is too much of a vested interest in many replies.

 

It's not like anything. It's as it is.

(no wonder this country is in such a state)

Read it, absorb it. There is nothing in the article about burglars or police.

[mayalld]

 

It is creating an atmosphere of stress and dividing communities between CC's and leisure boaters. CaRT seem to hold all the power and like to wield it. I think one of the latest developments was that they recruited someone on the board to represent boaters, who had very little to do with boating, was not on any of the forums and did not live on a boat. I can check that detail so it's correct, but I seem to remember reading it.

 

If they are unpopular, then there is a reason for it. In fact the reasons for it are mounting by the month. They have done it to themselves and there is a major lack of confidence in the organisation.

What I find interesting is that every time the clarion call is sounded, and we are urged to stick together as boaters, rather than be divided into leisure boaters and liveaboards (or any other split you care to mention), it always comes with the rider that OF COURSE this united group of boaters, who will not be partitioned into sub-groups MUST be represented by a liveaboard CCer.

 

Most boaters don't live on board. Most boaters aren't CCers. I regularly hear that as I am neither, my opinion on how the canals should be run is worth the square root of bugger all.

 

It seems to me that what the leisure boater wants and what the liveaboard wants are often at odds. That is fine, and there is a balance to be struck, but how do we get balance if we fall for the "all in this together" line and allow the minority to be the voice of all boaters?

[matty40s]

I have no idea. Would you care to try to explain why he might apologise for doing the right thing?

He did the wrong thing.

Then apologised, because his wrong thing affected a lot of other people(intentionally as he saw an income stream or .other profitable income streams)

Did he really feel sorry.

 

NO

 

Welcome to Jeff Whyatts world of boating

[Jerra]

 

It's not like anything. It's as it is.

(no wonder this country is in such a state)

Read it, absorb it. There is nothing in the article about burglars or police.

Oh sorry I thought you were capable of coping with the idea of comparisons. It seems not.

He did the wrong thing.

Sorry but I can't accept that asking the correct authority to check is the wrong thing.

[TheBiscuits]

What I find interesting is that every time the clarion call is sounded, and we are urged to stick together as boaters, rather than be divided into leisure boaters and liveaboards (or any other split you care to mention), it always comes with the rider that OF COURSE this united group of boaters, who will not be partitioned into sub-groups MUST be represented by a liveaboard CCer.

 

Most boaters don't live on board. Most boaters aren't CCers. I regularly hear that as I am neither, my opinion on how the canals should be run is worth the square root of bugger all.

 

It seems to me that what the leisure boater wants and what the liveaboard wants are often at odds. That is fine, and there is a balance to be struck, but how do we get balance if we fall for the "all in this together" line and allow the minority to be the voice of all boaters?

 

Now that is not fair Dave.

 

Next you will be pointing out that what one marina company did to another marina company about residential moorings probably does not affect CCrs in any way at all.

 

Or worse, you will notice how the article in the OP is about BWML but by this point in the thread this is now all CRT's fault.

 

But then the usual culprits are going at it hammer and tongs, so plus ça change ...

Edited September 6, 2015 by TheBiscuits

[jenlyn]

Oh sorry I thought you were capable of coping with the idea of comparisons. It seems not.

Sorry, your just wasting my data. If I said tomorrow was Monday, you would find an argument. Hmmm, jerra or xfactor? (switches tv on)

[Jerra]

Sorry, your just wasting my data. If I said tomorrow was Monday, you would find an argument. Hmmm, jerra or xfactor? (switches tv on)

If you can't accept others have a different view to yourself and it is quite legitimate then xfactor is probably the best thing.

[jenlyn]

If you can't accept others have a different view to yourself and it is quite legitimate then xfactor is probably the best thing.

I used to have a jack russell that constantly snapped at ankles. I liked him though.

[TheBiscuits]

LMFAO. Is it your favourite show?

From wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_X_Factor_(UK_TV_series)#Controversy_and_criticism

Controversy and criticism

From the outset, The X Factor has attracted heavy criticism. Recurring allegations include: [...] that auditionees [...] are shabbily treated; that controversy is deliberately courted and orchestrated, and supposedly spontaneous scenes are staged and scripted; [...] and that contestants are manipulated and unfairly edited.

[Higgs]

I think Higgs meant it is strange that people are charged money by CRT when the boat is in a marina.

 

What these people blatantly fail to appreciate (to quote Monty python) is that without access to the canal it ain't a marina - it is a lake with a questionable water supply. Obviously there may be differences for river fed areas but I think you may know that anyway

 

What you have failed to see is - the difference between the connection fee and the licence fee charging. In the marina, moorers pay for that thing called a connection fee. It is extra and is approximately 9% of the mooring fee. So, the connection is taken care of as a separate payment. Don't confuse it with a licence, which isn't required on private water. Do you think CRT would have to make it part a contract (NAA), if the law gave CRT the right of way in a marina. No, of course they wouldn't.

 

Now, try and explain the value (to the boater) of a licence, when a boat is off the Trust's waterway.

 

You may have seen, that in the NAA, it says that it is for the benefit of everyone. Everyone in this sense means CRT, alone.

Edited September 6, 2015 by Higgs

[Laurence Hogg]

Over the many years I have had direct everyday contact with BW most weeks about something or other. This ranged from restoration issues, publicity, funding aqueducts to running rallies and a whole load more. Never in all that time have I witnessed such low moral in the employees as there is now, such massive top end management which seems to have managers to manage the mangers, over staffing with ridiculous titles and basically a load of "top enders" not worth their salt. Add to this the parlous state of the system, the closures and dreadful maintenance and we have a vision of horror running our waterways, even Spielberg couldn't have thought this up!

 

Add to this the generally easy going boating fraternity that are turning into nervous wrecks, the enthusiasts like me who are walking away from active involvement, the lack of interest that CRT cannot see and the whole thing is heading into an apocalypse.

 

Its time to complain to the charities commission, your MP's and even bodies like the EA and show them CRT is not fit for purpose, they have lost sight of being a navigation authority and seem more akin to being something Ofsted would examine.

 

I am sick of being told about water voles, dragon flies, bats and bugs, maybe if they got more people to use the navigation they might get somewhere.

 

The French once referred to BW as being a "Mickey mouse" organization, what would they think of CRT?

 

Just take a look at some of the top end, ie Ruth Ruderham and ask yourself when did you last hear of a major funding success?

 

And as for Parry, well good riddance to him asap, he cannot even answer an email, a total waste of space, no wonder first Great Western changed its name after he left!!

[Alan de Enfield]

 

 

 

Now, try and explain the value of a licence when a boat is off the Trust's waterway.

 

Since you asked :

 

It proves to the marina that the boat is insured (at least 3rd Party) and has a BSS.

[jenlyn]

Over the many years I have had direct everyday contact with BW most weeks about something or other. This ranged from restoration issues, publicity, funding aqueducts to running rallies and a whole load more. Never in all that time have I witnessed such low moral in the employees as there is now, such massive top end management which seems to have managers to manage the mangers, over staffing with ridiculous titles and basically a load of "top enders" not worth their salt. Add to this the parlous state of the system, the closures and dreadful maintenance and we have a vision of horror running our waterways, even Spielberg couldn't have thought this up!

 

Add to this the generally easy going boating fraternity that are turning into nervous wrecks, the enthusiasts like me who are walking away from active involvement, the lack of interest that CRT cannot see and the whole thing is heading into an apocalypse.

 

Its time to complain to the charities commission, your MP's and even bodies like the EA and show them CRT is not fit for purpose, they have lost sight of being a navigation authority and seem more akin to being something Ofsted would examine.

 

I am sick of being told about water voles, dragon flies, bats and bugs, maybe if they got more people to use the navigation they might get somewhere.

 

The French once referred to BW as being a "Mickey mouse" organization, what would they think of CRT?

 

Just take a look at some of the top end, ie Ruth Ruderham and ask yourself when did you last hear of a major funding success?

 

And as for Parry, well good riddance to him asap, he cannot even answer an email, a total waste of space, no wonder first Great Western changed its name after he left!!

You forgot the ducklanes.

[Higgs]

 

Since you asked :

 

It proves to the marina that the boat is insured (at least 3rd Party) and has a BSS.

 

That's easily remedied, they ask for evidence, which they do. They have copies of the licence, insurance and, the BSS.

[Alan Saunders]

A good, moral business will talk to their competitors, maybe via a trade federation, to their mutual advantage. Even my three local garage owners meet in the 'pub occasionally to agree hourly rates and exchange the scenarios that lead to Mr Smith et-al moving his allegiance from one to another.

 

Reporting a competitor to the authorities without informing them of your impending action and giving them an opportunity to reply is unethical. In this particular case BWML are a subsidiary of CRT who could give any marina a hard time via the NAA.

 

How does a marina operator or Council prove that a mooring is residential? Generally, if I have a valid home address my use must be for leisure.

 

I am happy to cut off my nose to spite my face, e.g. my MIL would not shop in Tesco and I do not buy anything from Boots. Due to this unreasonable action and subsequent publicity I am determined not to moor in a BWML marina.

 

Alan

[tidal]

As my user-name implies I'm someone who has spent more time dealing with coastal marinas than inshore ones but I've also been a live-aboard on the inshore networks (back in the days of BW)

I always had a home mooring but tbh I spent so little time on them (either on the coast on inshore) that I never got questioned by marina owners or by the relevant local councils.
I took (and take) the position that if you have a boat then, whenever possible, it should be going somewhere, not tied up to a pontoon.
That's a personal choice which I'm sure isn't shared by all and doesn't need to be

 

Following some illness I had contemplated returning to the inshore network, but the more I read on here (and elsewhere) the less likely that is.
Hard as it is for me to credit it seems that CRT are even worse than BW were and to be frank I'm not sure I need that level of hassle.
I enjoy boating, not having to spend my time ensuring that I have dotted every i and crossed every t in their interpretation of the regulations

[MtB]

An abridged version would be handy

 

 

Arsehole stiffs CRT for half a £mill.

[Dyertribe]

Arsehole stiffs CRT for half a £mill.

Succinct Boiley!

[mayalld]

A good, moral business will talk to their competitors, maybe via a trade federation, to their mutual advantage. Even my three local garage owners meet in the 'pub occasionally to agree hourly rates

Running cartels to fix prices is a good thing is it?

[RLWP]

Following some illness I had contemplated returning to the inshore network, but the more I read on here (and elsewhere) the less likely that is.

Hard as it is for me to credit it seems that CRT are even worse than BW were and to be frank I'm not sure I need that level of hassle.

I enjoy boating, not having to spend my time ensuring that I have dotted every i and crossed every t in their interpretation of the regulations

 

Please do remember, this forum isn't necessarily representative of the real world. It's an internet forum with a self selecting group of users

 

Visiting canals, you'll find a whole variety of other opinions, and importantly happy boaters

 

Richard

[MtB]

 

Please do remember, this forum isn't necessarily representative of the real world. It's an internet forum with a self selecting group of users

 

Visiting canals, you'll find a whole variety of other opinions, and importantly happy boaters

 

Richard

 

 

100% right.

 

Unless you are tempted to push the envelope' or 'probe the limits' it's highly unlikely you'll ever even notice the existence of dead hand of CRT enforcement...

[Tuscan]

Running cartels to fix prices is a good thing is it?

Shouldn't you be on the Corbyn thread , I'll get my coat....

[Arthur Marshall]

It seems to me that what the leisure boater wants and what the liveaboard wants are often at odds. That is fine, and there is a balance to be struck, but how do we get balance if we fall for the "all in this together" line and allow the minority to be the voice of all boaters?

I've never understood why a leisure boater should want anything different from a liveaboard, having been both in my time, and have never met one of either category who had any argument with the other. At the risk of being modded, I think it's crap, and an excuse for some to turn a discussion into an argument - most of us just like boats and boating, and being on the damn things as much as we can.

What the marina did in the first instance was essentially underhand and unnecessary, albeit understandable if done in the heat of the moment, and that's why it needed to be apologised for. They should manage their marinas how they want and let others do the same, end of story and, really, no big deal.