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canal and river trust stating none sighting


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ok, my son received an email saying he has not been sighted by canal and river trust, does he have to be sighted by them, he is not a criminal, are they within the law/rights to demand his boat be sighted, especially when he is right out in the country. I thought it would be there responsibility to seek him out if they wanted to know his movements?, also they keep sending messages fro him to my email address, I have informed them it is not his email address, but they take no notice. I have now informed them that they maybe breaking the confidentiality act

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Short answer is no he doesn't need to be sighted, ask them why their system can't find him.

As for emails just bounce them back to CRT there is no reason he has to have email.

Edited by Loddon
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ok, my son received an email saying he has not been sighted by canal and river trust, does he have to be sighted by them, he is not a criminal, are they within the law/rights to demand his boat be sighted, especially when he is right out in the country. I thought it would be there responsibility to seek him out if they wanted to know his movements?, also they keep sending messages fro him to my email address, I have informed them it is not his email address, but they take no notice. I have now informed them that they maybe breaking the confidentiality act

 

 

Why would it matter if he has not been sighted?

 

Are they accusing him of paying for a license but not having a boat perhaps?

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I'm presuming my boat isn't sighted when it's moored at the marina but this does raise a question, do CRT patrol marinas and log the boats moored there? Either way, I can't see why non-sighting of a boat should be of concern to CRT as all it means is it isn't regularly moored in the same place in breach of the regulations.

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That's a weird one! If the boat hasn't been sighted, what concern is it of theirs? It could be on someone else's waterway, out of the water, whatever... Don't they have enough to keep busy with chasing people who they perceive to be sighted too much in CRT's idea of the wrong place or too small an area, to be asking the whereabouts of people who have stayed under the radar?

Are they basically just going out of their way to persecute CC'ers and be as Big Brother as possible now?

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I'm presuming my boat isn't sighted when it's moored at the marina but this does raise a question, do CRT patrol marinas and log the boats moored there? Either way, I can't see why non-sighting of a boat should be of concern to CRT as all it means is it isn't regularly moored in the same place in breach of the regulations.

Yes they do go to marinas that require a CRT licence

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ok, my son received an email saying he has not been sighted by canal and river trust, does he have to be sighted by them, he is not a criminal, are they within the law/rights to demand his boat be sighted, especially when he is right out in the country. I thought it would be there responsibility to seek him out if they wanted to know his movements?, also they keep sending messages fro him to my email address, I have informed them it is not his email address, but they take no notice. I have now informed them that they maybe breaking the confidentiality act

Jan my wife regularly gets emails on my email address because that is the address she gave them, perhaps your son gave them yours as his contact email and maybe the trust need him to confirm his current one not a third party ie you.

 

Ps what's the confidentiality act?

Edited by MJG
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That's a weird one! If the boat hasn't been sighted, what concern is it of theirs? It could be on someone else's waterway, out of the water, whatever... Don't they have enough to keep busy with chasing people who they perceive to be sighted too much in CRT's idea of the wrong place or too small an area, to be asking the whereabouts of people who have stayed under the radar?

Are they basically just going out of their way to persecute CC'ers and be as Big Brother as possible now?

As if they would go out of their way to persecute ccers :) mind you home moorers are on radar as well

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This sounds rediculous, surely the Crt must understand that any boat owner may choose to have their boat offline or out of the water for work needed. (this maybe inland in a workshop or the boat may be in safe storage while the owner was working overseas)

 

I would be questioning the legality of their questioning ?

 

edit, if the boat was sighted for overstopping they are on your case, so not being sighted at all then they are on your case also = harrasement in every sense of the word unless they actually bring in a sworn for boats as they do with motor vehicles.

Edited by grumpy146
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well I don't know what is going on really, this is the email

As you know your current licence was restricted to a three month period as we had concerns at the point of renewal that your cruising pattern was not in accordance with our “Guidance for Boaters without a Home Mooring” (“the Guidance”).

Prior to renewal of your most recent licence, we advised you by letter that if, at the end of the period of the new licence, we remained concerned about your boat’s cruising pattern, such that we considered that you had not met the requirements of the Guidance, you would have to secure a home mooring before being able to obtain a new licence from us.

We have been monitoring your boat’s cruising pattern since renewal of your licence and presently consider that we have insufficient sightings data to make a decision regarding your recent cruising. If you dispute our conclusions to date, please provide evidence of the frequency of your boat’s movements and mooring locations so that we can consider matters further and if necessary update our records.

Your current licence period has not yet expired and as such there remains a final opportunity for you to demonstrate an acceptable cruising pattern so as to meet the Guidance and satisfy us at the point of renewal that you should be entitled to a new continuous cruiser licence. If you are not already doing so, you should keep evidence of the frequency of your boat’s movements and mooring locations.

If, as we approach expiry of the period of your current licence, we consider that the overall cruising pattern during the entirety of your current licence period is satisfactory and has met the requirements of the Guidance, we will be willing to offer you a new six month licence and thereafter will continue to monitor your boat as we do for all boats without a home mooring.

However, if at the expiry of your current licence we consider that you did not maintain a cruising pattern throughout the period of that licence which was sufficient to meet the requirements of our Guidance, you will, in the absence of any exceptional circumstances, be unable to renew your licence on a continuous cruiser basis when your current licence period expires and will be required to remove your boat from the inland waterways managed by us or alternatively secure a home mooring before a new licence can be issued.

If you have any questions about this letter please contact your local enforcement officer who will be happy to talk to you about what it means. Contact details for all enforcement officers can be found online at www.canalrivertrust.org.uk/enforcement. Alternatively, please give our customer services team a call on the number below.

please see paragraph three !


also where do I stand when they keep emailing me when I have told them not to, do they breach confidentiality act?

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There might be a simple answer. Has the registration number been clearly displayed on both sides of the boat?

yes reg is on both sides

also they have just accepted money off him for a new three months licence starting in September when his current one runs out

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Some on here will tell you CRT are acting outside their powers. That may or may not be the case, but your son is now in the first stages of the enforcement process for not CCing sufficiently (according to CRT). So if he wants to continue as a CCer and not take a home mooring or remove his boat from CRT waters, then he might be better telling them where he has been boating, so he can demonstrate that he meets the criteria to get his licence renewed. The alternative could be a lot of grief.

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Jan my wife regularly gets emails on my email address because that is the address she gave them, perhaps your son gave them yours as his contact email and maybe the trust need him to confirm his current one not a third party ie you.

 

Ps what's the confidentiality act?

he has given them his email address on several occasions, and what I meam about confidentiality is they are discussing his information about him to me. surely that is wrong

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well I don't know what is going on really, this is the email

As you know your current licence was restricted to a three month period as we had concerns at the point of renewal that your cruising pattern was not in accordance with our “Guidance for Boaters without a Home Mooring” (“the Guidance”).

Prior to renewal of your most recent licence, we advised you by letter that if, at the end of the period of the new licence, we remained concerned about your boat’s cruising pattern, such that we considered that you had not met the requirements of the Guidance, you would have to secure a home mooring before being able to obtain a new licence from us.

We have been monitoring your boat’s cruising pattern since renewal of your licence and presently consider that we have insufficient sightings data to make a decision regarding your recent cruising. If you dispute our conclusions to date, please provide evidence of the frequency of your boat’s movements and mooring locations so that we can consider matters further and if necessary update our records.

Your current licence period has not yet expired and as such there remains a final opportunity for you to demonstrate an acceptable cruising pattern so as to meet the Guidance and satisfy us at the point of renewal that you should be entitled to a new continuous cruiser licence. If you are not already doing so, you should keep evidence of the frequency of your boat’s movements and mooring locations.

If, as we approach expiry of the period of your current licence, we consider that the overall cruising pattern during the entirety of your current licence period is satisfactory and has met the requirements of the Guidance, we will be willing to offer you a new six month licence and thereafter will continue to monitor your boat as we do for all boats without a home mooring.

However, if at the expiry of your current licence we consider that you did not maintain a cruising pattern throughout the period of that licence which was sufficient to meet the requirements of our Guidance, you will, in the absence of any exceptional circumstances, be unable to renew your licence on a continuous cruiser basis when your current licence period expires and will be required to remove your boat from the inland waterways managed by us or alternatively secure a home mooring before a new licence can be issued.

If you have any questions about this letter please contact your local enforcement officer who will be happy to talk to you about what it means. Contact details for all enforcement officers can be found online at www.canalrivertrust.org.uk/enforcement. Alternatively, please give our customer services team a call on the number below.

 

please see paragraph three !also where do I stand when they keep emailing me when I have told them not to, do they breach confidentiality act?

. I would go and speak to a brief and fire off a letter, telling them that this is harassment and if it continues you will be taking legal action
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ok, my son received an email saying he has not been sighted by canal and river trust, does he have to be sighted by them, he is not a criminal, are they within the law/rights to demand his boat be sighted, especially when he is right out in the country. I thought it would be there responsibility to seek him out if they wanted to know his movements?, also they keep sending messages fro him to my email address, I have informed them it is not his email address, but they take no notice. I have now informed them that they maybe breaking the confidentiality act

There is no such thing as "the confidentiality act"

 

There are various relevant acts of Parliament, but you can't just decide that you think something is a good thing and stick the word "Act" on the end of it.

 

YOU may have told CRT that this isn't your son's e-mail address, but if HE told them that it was they can't alter the details that HE supplied on your say-so.

 

Essentially, they are saying that he was on radar for not moving about much.

 

Since he came on radar, they aren't actually seeing his boat much.

 

They aren't drawing any firm conclusions about whether he has been moving enough, and they are inviting him to give an account of how much he has been moving about to supplement their data.

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Ummm not sure what to say. It would seem from the email if our logging system does not log you the dafault position is you are not complying. On my last data log I went 4 months without being logged. Think I was moving to fast for them or could be I tend to moor in the middle of nowhere. Should be an interesting one for a Judge "we took his licence away because we did not know where he was"

Edited by cotswoldsman
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Tell him to go to braunston, I had three jump on me there before I had even moored.

Perhaps the number checkers are now struggling to see over the vegetation?

Whatever reason, it seems the trust spend more time falling down steps, then they do climbing.

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. I would go and speak to a brief and fire off a letter, telling them that this is harassment and if it continues you will be taking legal action

CRT are the licensing authority.

 

How can the exercise of a legitimate function be harrasment?

  • Greenie 1
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. I would go and speak to a brief and fire off a letter, telling them that this is harassment and if it continues you will be taking legal action

 

 

Why?

 

Surely under the circumstances it is in the OP's son's interest to tell them where he has been cruising, rather than dicking them about claiming 'harassment'.

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There is no such thing as "the confidentiality act"

 

There are various relevant acts of Parliament, but you can't just decide that you think something is a good thing and stick the word "Act" on the end of it.

 

YOU may have told CRT that this isn't your son's e-mail address, but if HE told them that it was they can't alter the details that HE supplied on your say-so.

 

Essentially, they are saying that he was on radar for not moving about much.

 

Since he came on radar, they aren't actually seeing his boat much.

 

They aren't drawing any firm conclusions about whether he has been moving enough, and they are inviting him to give an account of how much he has been moving about to supplement their data.

ok wow, sorry but as I said he has given them his email address several times, I went with him to one of their offices to ensure they got the email address, and yes I still think they are oout of order emailing me

ok wow, sorry but as I said he has given them his email address several times, I went with him to one of their offices to ensure they got the email address, and yes I still think they are oout of order emailing me

whilst they email me, I consider it misuse of someone else's INFORMATION

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