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Jam 'Ole Run


Stephen Sugg

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23 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

A few years ago I organised a weekend away for our IWA group that included going down to Henley on a Salters Steamer, Chatting to the skipper while waiting for a lock he told me he would have priority if it was his Timetabled run but as it was charter he had to wait his turn. 

Perhaps it does still work, it's a long time since I was on the River, and it has seen so many changes in ownership, or whatever you call it.

TC.JPG

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22 minutes ago, CompairHolman said:

You could have a canal system without any on line moorings like the ye  olde  days  , and the boats left could cut about the system at 4 mph non stop, you could reenact deliveries to long gone jam factories as much as you want, however you will have to pay the share of all the licences of the boats you get rid of. Good luck with your £10,000 per year licence. 

How many of these moored boats actually have licences?  How many are 'continually cruising'?

Yes, I have been tied up more than 14 days, yes, my licence had lapsed.  No, no-one said or did anything.  That was in BWB days at Napton.  I was busy with 'Jaguar', checked my own boat when I passed it, no worries.

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1 hour ago, CompairHolman said:

You could have a canal system without any on line moorings like the ye  olde  days  , and the boats left could cut about the system at 4 mph non stop, you could reenact deliveries to long gone jam factories as much as you want, however you will have to pay the share of all the licences of the boats you get rid of. Good luck with your £10,000 per year licence. 

Get shut of half the continuous moorers.  Make the remaining half pay mooring fees as well as a licence.  Cost neutral and 50% clearer canals.?

 

By the way, if you read the first half of my post I don't think your response is entirely appropriate.

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1 hour ago, furnessvale said:

Get shut of half the continuous moorers.  Make the remaining half pay mooring fees as well as a licence.  Cost neutral and 50% clearer canals.?

 

By the way, if you read the first half of my post I don't think your response is entirely appropriate.

How will this be policed?  More 'Little Hitlers'?  They will want paying.

A lot of these boats are lived on by people with no interest in waterways, other than a cheap way of living.

Some have sold their houses and bought a wideboat that can't go anywhere.

Others, of course, are genuinely unable to afford the 'Affordable housing', which is largely non-existent.  Are you going to tow them away?

Years ago BWB tried this in Brum.  The tug drivers refused to do it.

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As Iv'e been told in reply to posts regarding the way things were in the days of carrying "THe canals have changed now days the way things are done does possibly not require the perfected over the years efficient way of performing tasks & get told off for hand braking the dropping of paddles,usuing the boats weight to push the gate/s open ,strapping the gate/s shut & in fact most of the practices used to get you along, from comments those practices are all now bad & forbidden ((Damage to canal infrastructure/furniture  when in fact performed by someone with the required skill cause less damage than  a boater with little experience //knowledge I fear the system is now only for use in a manner it was not really designed  for

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33 minutes ago, X Alan W said:

As Iv'e been told in reply to posts regarding the way things were in the days of carrying "THe canals have changed now days the way things are done does possibly not require the perfected over the years efficient way of performing tasks & get told off for hand braking the dropping of paddles,usuing the boats weight to push the gate/s open ,strapping the gate/s shut & in fact most of the practices used to get you along, from comments those practices are all now bad & forbidden ((Damage to canal infrastructure/furniture  when in fact performed by someone with the required skill cause less damage than  a boater with little experience //knowledge I fear the system is now only for use in a manner it was not really designed  for

Other than strapping gates closed I use all the techniques you mention.  I don't strap gates as too many are missing strapping posts or insufficient gaps so the line would get caught.  There are a few techniques Joe Hollingshead has demonstrated that I wouldn't use but when operating locks on your own or with a motor and butty then things need to be done efficiently.

I think today there are too many boaters that have no interest in the history of the canals and will see an action like using the weight of the boat to assist opening a gate so the paddle can be lowered by hand at the same time but they will assume the gate has been rammed and forced and the paddle dropped without any hand braking.

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3 hours ago, CompairHolman said:

You could have a canal system without any on line moorings like the ye  olde  days  , and the boats left could cut about the system at 4 mph non stop

Or just scrap the "slow down for moored boats" rule, and let anyone who wants to moor online do so and the rest can go into marinas ... :icecream:

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32 minutes ago, Rob-M said:

   There are a few techniques Joe Hollingshead has demonstrated that I wouldn't use but when operating locks on your own or with a motor and butty then things need to be done efficiently.

 

He has shown me some interesting techniques as well.

 

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There are some interesting modern versions of the old techniques that can be developed. For became the old boaters had no need of a technique for closing gates behind them after leaving a lock but an equivalent to strapping in would be to reach up and pass the stern rope around both bottom gates handrails as you exit a narrow lock after descending, it pulls both gates shut then you let go the loose end and haul the rope back in.

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23 minutes ago, Keeping Up said:

There are some interesting modern versions of the old techniques that can be developed. For became the old boaters had no need of a technique for closing gates behind them after leaving a lock but an equivalent to strapping in would be to reach up and pass the stern rope around both bottom gates handrails as you exit a narrow lock after descending, it pulls both gates shut then you let go the loose end and haul the rope back in.

I prefer using a shaft to push the gates closed but not all gates have a stabbing board so need to be careful to not damage a gate beam. If there is a reasonable length of bolt protruding under the beam then I'll push against that.

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21 hours ago, CompairHolman said:

Last time this happened a load of boats came speeding past late at night, woke everyone up on our mooring, and tore peoples mooring pins out of the ground, not to mention abusing the locks , slamming gates, and dropping paddle gears.

 

They have no right to do that.

 

8 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

You cant say that about historic boats on the Jam Hole run, you will have half the members here up in arms.  :ninja:?

 

7 hours ago, furnessvale said:

Not from me.  I have never been on it but IMO the idea is to commemorate the last commercial carrying NOT to match its timings.

 

Sadly some boaters do the latter and do (ex)working boats and boaters no favours.

 

Having said that, the virtual continuous line of continuous moorers now encountered down south would try the patience of a saint!

 

George


I turned out and lock wheeled for several of these.  I've just had a look at 2008 and 2010 photos to remind myself of those years.

For the ones I did, no attempt was made to break any records, and most of those participating were a model of good behaviour.

At various times I assisted one of the well respected local coal boaters, as well as "fanshaft" of this forum, not to mention the late Trevor Maggs.  It was a pleasure to watch boats being operated at maximum efficiency but with no more use of the throttle and eras than was actually necessary to get the job done.  Those at the  tillers mainly had decades of relevant experience.

I accept what George says can happen with some of the operators of ex working boats, but I personally never witnessed it on the Jam 'Ole recreations that I shadowed.

 

I could mention other events I observed where a few of the boaters were not so restrained, but I never witnessed bad behaviour on the Jam 'Ole.
 

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2 hours ago, TheBiscuits said:

Or just scrap the "slow down for moored boats" rule, and let anyone who wants to moor online do so and the rest can go into marinas ... :icecream:

I was going to say that, but thought I would get shot down in flames.

What is 'slow down' anyway - 2 mph. 3 or 3 and a bit.  Depends what speed you were doing before and that depends on the depth of water.

I was coming up the Trent at a good speed, entered the T&M Canal at 6 or 7 mph, it was like hitting a brick wall.

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I find it refreshing to lean there are a few who like to use the cut for it's designed  purpose I have no problem with how any one wants to boat but object to being (rollacked /told off for doing things the way it was done for manymany years by some one with possibly a sum total of 2 years worth of a max of 2 weeks holiday I would never dream of telling them how they should boat unless asked, why should they take me to task for doing something perfectly acceptable but they don't agree with or like

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Only time I had pins loosened by passing boats, was when hire boaters went by at excessive speed. Oh, and when anglers pulled them out during the early hours. Imagine that on the Trent. Only happened once though, and on the GU, Kings Langley.

 

But follow the old working practices, that's what we always did as much as we knew how, and often learnt from ex-boatmen turned lock keepers, and a couple of old boy lengthsmen.

 

Had two boats pass me going the other way through the Park once one behind the other. Quite wide, with a few moored boats towpath side. I took the centre with TYCHO, with enough room for the two boats to pass me with five feet clearance from us, and a good five feet from the moored boats. Did he curse me! "You f***ing ex-working boaters think you own the cut - you trying get me stemmed up you f*** c***, I'm reporting you - why dontchya move over - we're deep draughted ". He was on his CB radio to his mate behind telling him what a plonker I was ( I could hear him well enough without a radio ), his mate went past also telling me what 'his' mate had just told him. Both gave the impression they had been at the bottle.

 

Most folk moored would lean out and chat though. But there's always a troupe of moaning minnies somewhere around.

 

 

Edited by Derek R.
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Obviously some people do drive their boats at excessive speed, but if I ever had pins even loosened let alone pulled out my first thoughts would be that I had not moored adequately and do something to prevent it happening again. If it was somewhere with sandy soil it might be a problem, but the answer would still be down to me.

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3 hours ago, Derek R. said:

Only time I had pins loosened by passing boats, was when hire boaters went by at excessive speed. Oh, and when anglers pulled them out during the early hours. Imagine that on the Trent. Only happened once though, and on the GU, Kings Langley.

 

But follow the old working practices, that's what we always did as much as we knew how, and often learnt from ex-boatmen turned lock keepers, and a couple of old boy lengthsmen.

 

Had two boats pass me going the other way through the Park once one behind the other. Quite wide, with a few moored boats towpath side. I took the centre with TYCHO, with enough room for the two boats to pass me with five feet clearance from us, and a good five feet from the moored boats. Did he curse me! "You f***ing ex-working boaters think you own the cut - you trying get me stemmed up you f*** c***, I'm reporting you - why dontchya move over - we're deep draughted ". He was on his CB radio to his mate behind telling him what a plonker I was ( I could hear him well enough without a radio ), his mate went past also telling me what 'his' mate had just told him. Both gave the impression they had been at the bottle.

 

Most folk moored would lean out and chat though. But there's always a troupe of moaning minnies somewhere around.

 

 

Brings back memories of helping my mate move his "Star class" from Oxford to Chester Arrive at Tyrley Top & hover  by the winding hole as there was a boat in #2 lock & the top lock was in his favor.  Shiney boat moored in winding hole fore end towards Drayton  female exits cabin to well deck reaches up & takes short shaft from cabin top at the same time inquiring of me with many expletives what I thought I was doing ?"Waiting for a boat to come up the lock I replied" with many more expletives I was told I was breaking canal bye laws   if waiting for the lock I was REQUIRED to tie on the lock approach &  not f***about in the middle of the cut  this was as the water was moving with lock working I was froing & tooing about 1/2 a boats length with gear engagement but not raising the revs above tick over At that time there was a notice board with a selection of bye laws & do's dont's by the top lock & nowhere did it say you had to tie up When this was pointed out I was told I'd be reported to BWAt that moment a BW van with Jack Whalley Norbury foreman & Reg the Norbury chippie arrived she launched into a tirade about /a gainst me, Jack listened without saying a word for what seemed minutes & then said "is that it " she said it was & what was he going to do about it His reply was "Well first you are going to move as you are not allowed to moor in a winding hole " by this time I was going down in the lock so never found out the outcome but in terms of "Master Card "advert the look on her face "Priceless"

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I read these posts and think to myself - In a way, I'm glad that I am out of it all now.  Rosy specs?  -  no I don't think so.  On the odd occasion that I am near a canal, I see so much stupidity and bad manners.   "Leave the gate open, there's a boat coming down"  -  "No, you have to shut the gates"  So she did, in front of the oncoming boat.  As I passed the other boat I said "I tried to tell her", he said "It happens all the time". 

I don't bother anymore, let them get on with it.

 

Edited by Chris Williams
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55 minutes ago, Chris Williams said:

I read these posts and think to myself - In a way, I'm glad that I am out of it all now.  Rosy specs?  -  no I don't think so.  On the odd occasion that I am near a canal, I see so much stupidity and bad manners.   "Leave the gate open, there's a boat coming down"  -  "No, you have to shut the gates"  So she did, in front of the oncoming boat.  As I passed the other boat I said "I tried to tell her", he said "It happens all the time". 

I don't bother anymore, let them get on with it.

 

I am with you there, We have only been boatless for a couple of years, and one of the persuasive elements was an increasing amount of ignorance, rudeness and bad behavior from other boaters. Like you I started in the 1960's on a former GU Small Northwich, and learnt all my boating from a former working boatman. At the time most of the boats on the canal were either working boats or former working boats, and everyone was in the same position with regard to depth of water etc., we would happily pass with only inches to spare, and no one considered that odd. In those days you never closed gates or even dropped paddles when you left a lock, We (gently) opened gates going uphill with the boat, used ropes on the bottom gates when leaving locks, and where strapping posts existed used a rope on them to close the gate and slow the boat. Nowadays if you did any of that people will invariably shout at you. And don't mention dropping paddles and braking the spindle with your hand at the last moment !!

 

 

Edited by David Schweizer
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It's the way of the World, and we were comparatively newcomers in '79. Today, the more I see of it, the more I recoil from it. The Braunston do's for me are full of strangers save one or two faces, most behaving in a competitive way with their boats. We had twelve years afloat, then a seven year gap until we fell for TYCHO which we kept for 13yrs. But things had changed. I've done the same with jobs in the past. You go back remembering the times you had, but it's bitter sweet, and you end up moving on. Perhaps it's a personal weakness, and maybe I'd enjoy a spell at the tiller again - strap a boat to a stop - wind a few locks again, but you can't wind back the clock. Better to have a bit of banter on a forum, and share some memories and leave it at that.

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We had the best of it.  There were few old boaters left - Rose and Joe Skinner, Arthur Bray, Alec Purcell, etc. always ready for a natter, or advice.  BWB blokes like Aubrey Jones at Thrupp,  Esme at Marston Doles and many others who knew what was wrong, but couldn't do much about it.

Boatyards run by people who cared about the canals, not the profit.

You could pick up a boat for a few hundred quid.  We took kids on camping holidays.  Other kids with a raft made out of a pallet on four plastic drums.  Gave them a tow sometimes.

A few years ago I went back to some of my old mooring places by car.  Bad Idea.  Lapworth was almost deserted, likewise Cambrian Wharf.  

The plastic noddy-boats have been replaced by steel noddy-boats, but they are still owned by the same noddies.

It's become a rich man's playground. 

Sorry - depressing everyone.  I'll go.

 

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2 hours ago, Derek R. said:

It's the way of the World, and we were comparatively newcomers in '79. Today, the more I see of it, the more I recoil from it. The Braunston do's for me are full of strangers save one or two faces, most behaving in a competitive way with their boats. We had twelve years afloat, then a seven year gap until we fell for TYCHO which we kept for 13yrs. But things had changed. I've done the same with jobs in the past. You go back remembering the times you had, but it's bitter sweet, and you end up moving on. Perhaps it's a personal weakness, and maybe I'd enjoy a spell at the tiller again - strap a boat to a stop - wind a few locks again, but you can't wind back the clock. Better to have a bit of banter on a forum, and share some memories and leave it at that.

We try to get to the Braunston Rally every year, and whilst there are a lot of new faces. I usually meet quite a few people I remember from the working boat days in the 1960's.

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3 minutes ago, Chris Williams said:

We had the best of it.  There were few old boaters left - Rose and Joe Skinner, Arthur Bray, Alec Purcell, etc. always ready for a natter, or advice.  BWB blokes like Aubrey Jones at Thrupp,  Esme at Marston Doles and many others who knew what was wrong, but couldn't do much about it.

Boatyards run by people who cared about the canals, not the profit.

You could pick up a boat for a few hundred quid.  We took kids on camping holidays.  Other kids with a raft made out of a pallet on four plastic drums.  Gave them a tow sometimes.

A few years ago I went back to some of my old mooring places by car.  Bad Idea.  Lapworth was almost deserted, likewise Cambrian Wharf.  

The plastic noddy-boats have been replaced by steel noddy-boats, but they are still owned by the same noddies.

It's become a rich man's playground. 

Sorry - depressing everyone.  I'll go.

 

When I started Willow Wren had a sizeable fleet carrying grain to Wellingborough, British Waterways were delivering lime juice to Roses at Hemel Hempstead and Blue Line were still delivering coal to Southall,  along with a number of small independants trading between Birmingham and London. Joe and Rose Skinner had retired to a small house at Hawkesbury by then, but still sleeping on Friendship. I met them several times, even spending an evening with them in a pub in Leicester.

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