Engine re-build or replacement- help required

[PSimmo]

Hi there,

 

This is my first post, although I'm regularly reviewing other topics for help with our liveaboard narrowboat! Thanks in advance for reading.

 

We have a Mitsubishi K4E keel cooled engine (4 cylinder 1.4l) in our 52ft narrowboat, which will not start due to loss of compression concluded by RCR.

 

We have been recommended 3 options:

 

1. Overhaul/rebuild;

2. Replace with a used/recon engine;

3. Replace with a new engine;

 

We have looked into new engine prices/fitting etc and it's simply unaffordable for us.

 

Any advice on options 1 or 2 would be really really appreciated, and if further information would help, I can see what I can provide you.

 

Many thanks for your time.

 

 

 

[David Mack]

Hi there,

 

This is my first post, although I'm regularly reviewing other topics for help with our liveaboard narrowboat! Thanks in advance for reading.

 

We have a Mitsubishi K4E keel cooled engine (4 cylinder 1.4l) in our 52ft narrowboat, which will not start due to loss of compression concluded by RCR.

 

We have been recommended 3 options:

 

1. Overhaul/rebuild;

2. Replace with a used/recon engine;

3. Replace with a new engine;

 

We have looked into new engine prices/fitting etc and it's simply unaffordable for us.

 

Any advice on options 1 or 2 would be really really appreciated, and if further information would help, I can see what I can provide you.

 

Many thanks for your time.

 

 

 

Surely the first thing is to establish why it has lost compression, and therefore what might be needed to get it going, before you start to look at replacement.

[Jess--]

I would agree with david, first find out the cause of loss of compression because without that information there is no way of knowing whether option one is even possible (let alone affordable).

 

any more info would help...

has it been a gradual change (getting harder and harder to start of a long time) or sudden change (loud bang and then would't restart).

how did the engine seem when last run,

how is the oil (has it got water in it, is there enough oil)

when you try and start it is there any sign of life at all (any smoke from exhaust, any pops).

can you hear the starter turning through compression or does it just whirr smoothly with no change in pitch.

does the engine rattle or clank when turned over.

[Tony Dunkley]

Hi there,

 

This is my first post, although I'm regularly reviewing other topics for help with our liveaboard narrowboat! Thanks in advance for reading.

 

We have a Mitsubishi K4E keel cooled engine (4 cylinder 1.4l) in our 52ft narrowboat, which will not start due to loss of compression concluded by RCR.

 

We have been recommended 3 options:

 

1. Overhaul/rebuild;

2. Replace with a used/recon engine;

3. Replace with a new engine;

 

We have looked into new engine prices/fitting etc and it's simply unaffordable for us.

 

Any advice on options 1 or 2 would be really really appreciated, and if further information would help, I can see what I can provide you.

 

Many thanks for your time.

 

 

 

 

Is this a first time starting problem, or has it been progressively getting more difficult to start over a period of time?

[bigste]

Loss of compression will not be a cheap fix but that doesn't mean astronomical. It may well be an engine swap but on the other hand it may just be a reconditioned cylinder head. As has been said you need to know what is causing the problem. I suspect the final cost could well be half what you are thinking.

[Flyboy]

It sounds like the engine has not been run for a long time. It may simply have stuck piston rings or valves. I would get the cylinder head off, de coke & grind the valves. When the head is off you could put some Redex down the bores to free up the rings.

[Guest]

Not familiar with the 1.4 Mitsubishi, but have talked to many people re the 1.5L mitsu S4L unit in my boat. The people at Thornycroft used to marinise the s4L and on talking to them, it was claimed that head work etc was economically viable, but when getting into major rebuilds it made more economical sense to replace the base engine and move the marinising parts across.

Does the old car diagnostic trick apply to diesel engines where some engine oil is added to the bores, and the compression re tested? Just a thought.

[bizzard]

Did he mean lack of compression? If it isn't burning any oil or very little I'd say the downstairs of the engine ''pistons and rings'' are ok. It could then be upstairs meaning valves not seating properly, valve clearances none existent and not allowing the valves to close properly,''tappet adjustment'', sticky valves or burn't valve seats or seriously blown head gasket. .

[OldGoat]

It has been reported elsewhere (p'raps on these Fora) that sometimes RCR folks have not been 'very accurate' (an euphemism for something else), so a visit from someone who knows these engine might be 'profitable'

 

Otherwise as folks say above in the worst case it's not a complete new assembly - and that might be the costs that the OP has seen, but just replacing with a new 'short engine' Sometimes that can be around half the cost or even less. So panic not.

 

Yet.

[frangar]

It has been reported elsewhere (p'raps on these Fora) that sometimes RCR folks have not been 'very accurate' (an euphemism for something else), so a visit from someone who knows these engine might be 'profitable'

 

Otherwise as folks say above in the worst case it's not a complete new assembly - and that might be the costs that the OP has seen, but just replacing with a new 'short engine' Sometimes that can be around half the cost or even less. So panic not.

 

Yet.

RCR in two cases I know of were very quick to suggest a new engine....and in both cases it wasn't needed....one was fixed by a head recon and the other was a cooling issue. I'm not sure it's a fluke that RCR can supply new engines.

 

I would suggest a second opinion.

 

Cheers

 

Gareth

[OldGoat]

RCR in two cases I know of were very quick to suggest a new engine....and in both cases it wasn't needed....one was fixed by a head recon and the other was a cooling issue. I'm not sure it's a fluke that RCR can supply new engines.

 

I would suggest a second opinion.

 

Cheers

 

Gareth

Much more succinct than my entry. One could not possibly comment.

[Tony Brooks]

Hi PSimmo

 

I see your location is given as Berkshire. If the boat is within (say) 20 miles of Reading I will happily come and give a second opinion but please be aware that I no longer have access to a diesel compression tester so I will not be able to give a definitive diagnosis. I will only be ale to give an opinion based on sounds and my experience.

 

If you want to take this up you will not be able to PM me until you get more posts so please email Tony@tb-training.co.uk giving your location. I will thrn reply with some times.

[ditchcrawler]

Hi PSimmo

 

I see your location is given as Berkshire. If the boat is within (say) 20 miles of Reading I will happily come and give a second opinion but please be aware that I no longer have access to a diesel compression tester so I will not be able to give a definitive diagnosis. I will only be ale to give an opinion based on sounds and my experience.

 

If you want to take this up you will not be able to PM me until you get more posts so please email Tony@tb-training.co.uk giving your location. I will thrn reply with some times.

And that is probably the best offer you can hope to get, I hope you have emailed Tony.

[PSimmo]

Thank you all very much for your responses, and to Tony for the offer. Tony I shall email you directly as you have suggested.

 

RCR engineers determined loss of compression and the suggestion of a new engine. I will come back to you with further info soon.

 

Phil

[Laurie Booth]

Halford's in Stroud advised me to replace my engine as they didn't keep oil filters for the engine I had !!

[Guest]

Halford's in Stroud advised me to replace my engine as they didn't keep oil filters for the engine I had !!

Well obviously

[Murflynn]

Halford's in Stroud advised me to replace my engine as they didn't keep oil filters for the engine I had !!

look - when Halfords decides you are obsolete then the END is NIGH.

they don't even keep rear wiper blade for a 2011 Audi A4 Avant - so I'm scrapping it poste haste.

Edited August 15, 2015 by Murflynn

[Flyboy]

I went to Halfords to get some rear brake shoes for my car. I was told that cars don't have brake shoes only disc pads.

[craftycarper]

Thank you all very much for your responses, and to Tony for the offer. Tony I shall email you directly as you have suggested.

RCR engineers determined loss of compression and the suggestion of a new engine. I will come back to you with further info soon.

Phil

. May I also strongly suggest you take up tony,s offer, through following his threads and advice given out on here it is quite clear he is a bit special, and if he gives you a second opinion, you should,nt need a third, goodluck

[Geoff Taylor]

Hi, How was the engine running/starting/smoking/using oil/water before it finally refused to start and did RCR actually perform a compression test on it or use clairvoyancy to diagnose the problem. These engines have glow plugs and need to be tested as should be the fuel supply to the injectors and the operation of the stop solenoid (if fitted). An engine will not suddenly refuse to start if they ran ok without some symptoms that gradually increase over time.

 

Sometimes a piece of carbon can lodge in a valve and give a false reading of a lack of compression and with a small engine cause problems starting so unless a few more diagnostics are done only a guess at this can be achieved at this moment.

[Dalslandia]

Halford's in Stroud advised me to replace my engine as they didn't keep oil filters for the engine I had !!

Was there no replacement of the adviser a viable, should be filtered out

[magnetman]

Hellfrauds will become obselete in the next 10 years anyway

[Tony Brooks]

I am having at look tomorrow evening and will report back.

[Laurie Booth]

look - when Halfords decides you are obsolete then the END is NIGH.

they don't even keep rear wiper blade for a 2011 Audi A4 Avant - so I'm scrapping it poste haste.

Out of interest, would Halford's be liable if you did scrap your boat/car/engine on their advice and it wasn't necessary?

They told me to scrap my engine and get a new one due to the fact that they didn't keep oil filters for it.

[frangar]

I am having at look tomorrow evening and will report back.

That's very good of you Tony.....please do keep us updated.

 

Cheers

 

Gareth