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I am beginning to be concerned


DeanS

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and the answer from CRT..

 

 

 

Hi Dean

 

We accept your explanation of the situation and I would like to reiterate that our reminders are sent as a customer service message, they are not an enforcement action.

I can confirm that I have flagged this reminder as withdrawn and I apologise for any inconvenience this may have caused you.

Also we are happy to approve the 3 day overstay that you have requested.

Kind regards

Seems entirely reasonable to me. I can't help wondering how some of you folk would get on if you had to deal with DVSA in your daily lives rather than CRT.

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Seems entirely reasonable to me. I can't help wondering how some of you folk would get on if you had to deal with DVSA in your daily lives rather than CRT.

Fine by me. I ain't going to get squished by an overstaying boat, however a poorly maintained HGV being poorly driven is a different matter......

 

More power to their elbow. :)

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and the answer from CRT..

 

 

 

Hi Dean

 

We accept your explanation of the situation and I would like to reiterate that our reminders are sent as a customer service message, they are not an enforcement action.

I can confirm that I have flagged this reminder as withdrawn and I apologise for any inconvenience this may have caused you.

Also we are happy to approve the 3 day overstay that you have requested.

Kind regards

 

Nice result have a great holiday Dean

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The new beta CRT website links to this document...

 

so...I presume this "letter" I received...is actually what is known as a pre-cc1 letter, which in this document is definately enforcement.....and not "customer service"...as CRTs latest mail to me is trying to say...

 

so what's the truth...are these "letters" people are receiving....the first step in enforcement or not. This old document suggests they were meant to be.....

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The new beta CRT website links to this document...

 

so...I presume this "letter" I received...is actually what is known as a pre-cc1 letter, which in this document is definately enforcement.....and not "customer service"...as CRTs latest mail to me is trying to say...

 

so what's the truth...are these "letters" people are receiving....the first step in enforcement or not. This old document suggests they were meant to be.....

If I were you I would think about going to France and stop obsessing.

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so...I presume this "letter" I received...is actually what is known as a pre-cc1 letter..

No. The pr-cc1 relates to a boat without a home mooring which CRT are claiming has not moved sufficiently to meet their interpretation of the need to be used bona fide for navigation.

 

The email you received says sightings suggest that your boat may have remained in the same place for more than 14 days and asks you to contact them if this is not the case.

 

Apart from relating to different circumstances, the pre-cc1 is CRT making a specfic accusation, whereas the email to you is worded much more guardedly and stops short of actually accusing you of overstaying. That's because their sporadic sightings cannot definitively show that you have, in fact, overstayed (and, of course, you hadn't, having moved elsewhere and returned between sightings)

 

The pre-cc1 is formally placing a boater on notice that their cruising pattern will be monitored in future and that if they do not cruise accrding to the guidelines, enforcement action will follow. It is a precursor to a potential enforcement process.

 

The email you recieved is nothing but CRT using their inadequate sightings logs to fish for potential overstayers by asking selected boaters to explain and potentially provide evidence of where their boat has been moored at certain times. I can see nothing in the licence T&Cs which say that a licencee is obliged to do this.

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so what's the truth...are these "letters" people are receiving....the first step in enforcement or not. This old document suggests they were meant to be.....

Personally I wouldn't worry about it.

 

The long and short of it is that CRT buggered up on their logging process, and so you got a fairly standard letter stating that logging suggested you'd overstayed, and so could you get in touch to sort it. You told them you hadn't overstayed, they said fair enough, and you then asked for their logs, which they promply supplied, along with a polite note of explanation.

 

Afer all that, you then did want to overstay for a few days, and so asked permission, to which they replied saying no problem, the previous matter is now closed, and they apologised for any inconvenience caused.

 

In the scheme of things you got off lightly, as the resultant burst of righteous indignation has cost some forum members a combined amount of two grand.

Edited by abraxus
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As I'm preparing to go to France, my mind isn't really on the CRT issues, however, one observation is as follows:

 

In the "letter", I am told to contact my enforcement officer.

In the latest email, I am told the letter has nothing to do with enforcement.

 

cross messages.

I broke down a few days ago and got stuck in a place where I shouldn't have been and had no idea how long I was going to be there. I rang CRT to tell them, and they were fine about it and said they would tell the local enforcement officer. I suspect it would feel less agressive if they called them something else, like lengthsmen, or even just local managers. the name's a bit unfortunate and I suspect may change...

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Hypothetical question.

 

I’m a CCer and haven’t picked up my post for a few months.

 

Now, unbeknown to me there’s a letter there, the same as the one Dean received.

 

In the letter there’s a couple of lines that say We’ve been looking at our sighting records and they suggest that your boat ***** has been moored in the same general area for more than 14 days.

 

If this is not the case, or you have any questions please give your local enforcement officer a ring so you can have a chat to them about your circumstances.

 

As I haven’t rung (because I didn’t know I had the letter) do they assume that, that is the case,

and start enforcement proceedings?

 

I may not know anything about this for several months.

 

Rob….

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....

 

In the scheme of things you got off lightly, as the resultant burst of righteous indignation has cost some forum members a combined amount of two grand.

 

no it hasn't - the cash is for a transcript of a case concerning a boat without a home mooring and so nothing to do with Dean

 

 

Hypothetical question.

 

I’m a CCer and haven’t picked up my post for a few months.

 

Now, unbeknown to me there’s a letter there, the same as the one Dean received.

 

In the letter there’s a couple of lines that say We’ve been looking at our sighting records and they suggest that your boat ***** has been moored in the same general area for more than 14 days.

 

If this is not the case, or you have any questions please give your local enforcement officer a ring so you can have a chat to them about your circumstances.

 

As I haven’t rung (because I didn’t know I had the letter) do they assume that, that is the case,

and start enforcement proceedings?

 

I may not know anything about this for several months.

 

Rob….

 

I guess the hypothetical answer is to check your post at more frequent intervals or to make sure that CRT have your email

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I broke down a few days ago and got stuck in a place where I shouldn't have been and had no idea how long I was going to be there. I rang CRT to tell them, and they were fine about it and said they would tell the local enforcement officer. I suspect it would feel less agressive if they called them something else, like lengthsmen, or even just local managers. the name's a bit unfortunate and I suspect may change...

 

Hasn't the Police Force been changed to the Police Service? So when they beat you up with their truncheons they'd just be giving you a 'service' and not showing a display of force.

 

"The Metropolitan Police Service (abbreviated to MPS and widely known informally as "the Met") is the territorial police force responsible for law enforcement in Greater London, excluding the "square mile" of the City of London, which is the responsibility of the City of London Police."

 

from here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metropolitan_Police_Service

 

I may not know anything about this for several months.

 

Rob….

 

 

"Deny everything!"

 

"Is your name Private Baldrick?"

 

"No!"

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I broke down a few days ago and got stuck in a place where I shouldn't have been and had no idea how long I was going to be there. I rang CRT to tell them, and they were fine about it and said they would tell the local enforcement officer. I suspect it would feel less agressive if they called them something else, like lengthsmen, or even just local managers. the name's a bit unfortunate and I suspect may change...

 

When first introduced by BW in the late 70's they were called Patrol Officers, and their primary function was the enforcement of Byelaws and Licence evasion, which was a new phenomenon for BW following the recent introduction of Licences.

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hard to believe we are now at 600 posts plus, all as a result of Dean failing to ring up the local enforcement officer and give him a satisfactory explanation as to why he may be appearing to overstay.

 

DUHH !!

 

Yes, there are over 600 posts, but from what you've just said it appears that you've missed the point of a great many of the more significant ones, and what emerged as the real value of thread.

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hard to believe we are now at 600 posts plus, all as a result of Dean failing to ring up the local enforcement officer and give him a satisfactory explanation as to why he may be appearing to overstay.

 

DUHH !!

I think you just answered the reason why over 600 posts yourself with a couple of key words

 

no it hasn't - the cash is for a transcript of a case concerning a boat without a home mooring and so nothing to do with Dean

 

 

 

Yes it seems some only read what they want to read and can not differenciate between two different actions

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Hypothetical question.

 

Im a CCer and havent picked up my post for a few months.

 

Now, unbeknown to me theres a letter there, the same as the one Dean received.

 

In the letter theres a couple of lines that say Weve been looking at our sighting records and they suggest that your boat ***** has been moored in the same general area for more than 14 days.

 

If this is not the case, or you have any questions please give your local enforcement officer a ring so you can have a chat to them about your circumstances.

 

As I havent rung (because I didnt know I had the letter) do they assume that, that is the case,

and start enforcement proceedings?

 

I may not know anything about this for several months.

 

Rob.

If you have given your email address you can be contacted more easily. If you have one..and that's what your're worried about.

 

Actually it's not a bad thing to be easily contactable by CRT if something hapoens to your boat while you are away.

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Currently they are clamouring for a copy of the transcript Leigh paid for, of his last court appearance over costs on discontinuing his injunction in the County Court, in favour of his main claim in the High Court. Why they are so anxious for it at this stage I don't know; they will get a copy soon enough if his appeal is granted permission.

 

 

Read where?

On a supporter's FB page - i know no more than that.
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hard to believe we are now at 600 posts plus, all as a result of Dean failing to ring up the local enforcement officer and give him a satisfactory explanation as to why he may be appearing to overstay.

 

DUHH !!

In fairness to Dean, he did point out as early as post #7 that he replied immediately to CRT with details of his movements. In fact the whole issue seems to have been dealt with amicably between Dean and CRT, with it resulting in him getting permission to overstay for a few days while he goes on hols.

 

Granted, it kicked off with an error by CRT but, given that a similar error made on land would have resulted in a parking ticket, and a fine to contest, rather than a letter to check first before taking action, then it seems to fall low on the scale of life's traumas.

  • Greenie 2
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http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=73982&hl=

 

You'll be alright they said, won't affect you they said !!!

 

They don't take any notice of people with a HM they said... (well okay I am paraphrasing there a bit )

 

 

 

Well I do know the potential scenario in the above thread isn't identical to DeanS situation. But not far off...

 

I'm not gloating or saying I told you so, in fact I am delighted that DeanS situation has been cleared up and he even got an extension, fairplay. ( Does set a precedent surely ?)

 

It is just such a shame that it did come to this after all.

 

Incidentally has anyone got an update on the person pretending to be an EO in the Banbury area?

 

 

Cheers Bill

Edited by BD3Bill
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In retrospect, everything seems to have worked out with CRT quite well. An important point to remember, is that this is the first "letter" I have ever received from them....and due to the change of enforcement on my other possible cruising grounds (Bridgewater), I have been a little sensitive about having to "look over my shoulder" while boating on the Rochdale. On the 17 JUly, I was at the water point, and the data logger was walking by on the towpath on the other side, and shouted for me to provide my index number. At the time I thought..."you just can't escape...even at the top of the Pennines..."....I then carried on my travels, with a heightened sense of...I need to be good...but at the same time I had no idea if the general area I was covering was ok...but I decided that it was.....so when eventually I got back to the same place after 40locks (20 up and 20 down), and received a letter...I was quite "concerned"...mainly because after trying to be good...and knowing eyes had been watching...I had still been unable to keep off their radar. Yes, it all worked out fine in the end, but there are still a few loose ends I haven't quite grasped. The latest email from them says that these letters are not linked to enforcement at all...this is something I didn't know..but now that I do, I guess they can just be binned if I receive any more....as I don't plan on being a P-Taker....I still don't really know if kilometer zones has replaced "places".....if I knew that, I might be able to travel less...and not as far as I currently thought I had too....so to cut the story short, I guess I'll try a few things out...and see what happens, and devise a cruising schedule (for next year) that might work. Of course I suspect by then everything may have changed again...as it seems to do very quickly....what's launched this year, may not be around next.........I've also been interested in the spin off of the £2000 in this thread, but don't have any knowledge of what that's all about...but it seems good. Leaving for France tomorrow morning. Handing the boat over to Father in Law today, was slightly frightening....

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In retrospect, everything seems to have worked out with CRT quite well. An important point to remember, is that this is the first "letter" I have ever received from them....and due to the change of enforcement on my other possible cruising grounds (Bridgewater), I have been a little sensitive about having to "look over my shoulder" while boating on the Rochdale. On the 17 JUly, I was at the water point, and the data logger was walking by on the towpath on the other side, and shouted for me to provide my index number.

Isn't the index number on the side of the boat?

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