Homeless living on canal & riversides

[abraxus]

I've directly paid for several homeless people to be accomodated in the past, and am happy for more of my tax money to go on accomodating more.

 

What's your point?

[Emerald Fox]

 

 

On balance, Thatcher was good for the country.

 

But by God there were some downsides. Care in the community being one of the worst.

 

But she did get people out of the coal mines!

Edited August 14, 2015 by Emerald Fox

[George94]

 

 

But she did get people out of the coal mines!

 

But they were so ungrateful...

[Emerald Fox]

 

Sounds reasonable.

 

How many have you taken in?

 

We've gone down this path before. Or I have, anyway.

 

What's would be nice to see is a fair distribution of labour, and a fair distribution of the wealth created from it.

People shouldn't need to be taken in, they should have their own homes (if desired), everybody should have a decent income and decent standard of life - which includes medical/health assistance.

 

There's always someone worse off, or something worse..... it's the wrong attitude to keep pointing that out - instead we should be aspiring to put in some effort and raise the quality of life all round.

But we come to the old Communism-Capitalism-Fantasy-Fact chestnut, and not a lot gets done.

Has anybody seen that TV series about the Swedish millionaire women in the USA?

Says me sitting here, whilst I should be ironing my shirts, or doing something more productive.

 

(We are in warmshowers.org, that's a good way of helping out some people - providing a place to sleep, washing facilities, something to eat)

[TheBiscuits]

I've directly paid for several homeless people to be accomodated

 

Good on you.

 

I'm just used to people who loudly insist somebody ELSE should do something, just not them.

 

In your case I didn't know, so I asked. Thanks for answering.

[abraxus]

Fair enough, you're welcome.

[George94]

 

Good on you.

 

I'm just used to people who loudly insist somebody ELSE should do something, just not them.

 

In your case I didn't know, so I asked. Thanks for answering.

 

Actually, somebody else SHOULD do something. That somebody is the government, to whom we pay taxes to run the country and improve it. But I agree it is very nice to see people doing something directly themselves.

[Wanted]

Sounds reasonable.

 

How many have you taken in?

On the face of it a reasonable question, the reality though is not so simplistic. With a majority of people one or two pay packets away from a similar fate, the idea of taking somebody in is often beyond the means of most.

For most, and certainly in highly populated areas like London, space or a spare room is a luxury.

 

In all of my years of working with entrenched street homeless people in London I rarely met a person who's problems could have been solved from housing alone. The reality is that if that is all the problem is then the person probably has the ability to not be street homeless.

 

It then becomes a very different prospect when giving a bed to somebody who has problems with drug, alcohol, Ill mental health etc.

 

Don't get me wrong, good quality supported accomadation is a great prospect for many, but I think the emphasis needs to be on the support rather than the roof.

 

On this though I am happy to be persuaded otherwise....

 

There is some interesting work happening in Utah where by people are house first and don't lose their tenancy because of their problems, however, we are nowhere near that here.

 

So, that's the problem, we need a solution right?

 

If people want to help, to try make a difference to the lives of those on the streets then a simple conversation to start with goes a long way. As with all relationships, there is no reason why this couldn't develop into one of more support, however to get to that stage, Listen to what the person is saying.

 

For more organised help, you may also consider volunteering. Crisis is a great charity to work with at Xmas and there are more than a fair share of boaters involved.

I led a shift for years for crisis and cant speak highly enough.

 

For me, and where I am now at in my career, I am focusing efforts at an earlier stage and working with children and young people,to try and help them avoid the streets altogether.

 

 

Again though, if you see somebody sleeping out, and you are worried, call No Second Night Out 0300 500 0914

 

Happy for people to PM for specific advice

 

Rob

Edited August 15, 2015 by Wanted

[rufus2015]

I don't see that anyone is two packets away from having to camp on the pavement, if you start from point zero, ie standing on the street with no money, or anything but the clothes your wearing, you can go to the nearest police station and they will put you in touch with the nearest hostel. Probably salvation army, you get an emergency bed for the night, then you claim benefits, and live in the hostel, the SA take it all off you, but you work for cash in hand until you get the deposit on a room in a shared house, then you find a job, any job, and move on from there. No capable person has to be living rough. The word "homeless" covers a lot of different things to different people, so I didn't use it.

 

The people living on the streets are incapable maybe through no fault of their own to do otherwise. There's not really an answer to that, and its not any governments fault.

[MisterDave]

I don't see that anyone is two packets away from having to camp on the pavement, if you start from point zero, ie standing on the street with no money, or anything but the clothes your wearing, you can go to the nearest police station and they will put you in touch with the nearest hostel. Probably salvation army, you get an emergency bed for the night, then you claim benefits, and live in the hostel, the SA take it all off you, but you work for cash in hand until you get the deposit on a room in a shared house, then you find a job, any job, and move on from there. .

 

Exactly what someone I know tried to do. He got a hostel place and I found him some part time work with a local taxi firm. SA kicked him out and reported him for working whilst claiming, which got his benefits sanctioned for 6 months. The only reason he's not still on the streets is because he's since been diagnosed with a terminal illness and the 1% don't like finding dead bodies in their shop doorways.

[GreyLady]

Hostels are not for free they want money from someone either the Service User or the Benefits System.

 

They are also full the the brim bedwise 99.9% of the time.

 

Their are a lot of very scared people living on the street, they fear judgement/change/shame and loss of dignity more than the cold weather.

 

As Wanted said its not just about putting a Roof over a homeless persons head, its about people seeing them as a person and approaching their life struggles/issues working in a mutually understanding way with them to improve their lives for the better longterm.

 

you can house someone but unless they get the right support the chances of life improvement may deminish in a short space of time.

Edited August 16, 2015 by grumpy146

[Arthur Brown]

The issue isn't housing it's work. You can house someone easily and cheaply BUT that's actually a permanent solution -you have to KEEP housing them and paying them. They never develop self esteem or employability. These days it's close to impossible to get a job if you are homeless, personnel departments need people who will go home after work, who have a home address for tax and NI purposes and have a residence for CRB checking where (quite often) it's needed.

 

I used to work for Raleigh one year they made 7000 redundant and retained just enough to close the company up for a couple of years, now it's all gone. That's 7700 jobs Nottingham will not find again easily -and about two square miles of housing where people used to work -more houses less work.

 

Where did GKN go Where did Tuckers (fasteners) go where did the coal industry go. The people haven't gone away, but all we need now are a few import specialists to supervise the arrival of stuff from China etc.

 

Without work and pay the descending spiral of wageless to homeless is permanent.

[Wanted]

I don't see that anyone is two packets away from having to camp on the pavement, if you start from point zero, ie standing on the street with no money, or anything but the clothes your wearing, you can go to the nearest police station and they will put you in touch with the nearest hostel. Probably salvation army, you get an emergency bed for the night, then you claim benefits, and live in the hostel, the SA take it all off you, but you work for cash in hand until you get the deposit on a room in a shared house, then you find a job, any job, and move on from there. No capable person has to be living rough. The word "homeless" covers a lot of different things to different people, so I didn't use it.

The people living on the streets are incapable maybe through no fault of their own to do otherwise. There's not really an answer to that, and its not any governments fault.

There are so few direct access hostels now, most are procured by local authorities and you would need them to be satisfied of your need via an appointment at the HPU. As Grumpy says, there is generally a waiting list and if I'm being honest, the hostels that I've worked in would be a terrifying prospect for most people. Drugs and alcohol, exploitation and constant noise.

The benefits system routinely lets down people and fractures this already volatile situation as a result.

[George94]

There are so few direct access hostels now, most are procured by local authorities and you would need them to be satisfied of your need via an appointment at the HPU. As Grumpy says, there is generally a waiting list and if I'm being honest, the hostels that I've worked in would be a terrifying prospect for most people. Drugs and alcohol, exploitation and constant noise.

The benefits system routinely lets down people and fractures this already volatile situation as a result.

 

The state does run a hostel system of last resort, where regular meals are provided, and a wholesome discipline is imposed. It's called prison, and for many people it really is the only alternative.

 

The tragedy is that government doesn't see that a decent hostel system would cost much less to run than prisons (no crime necessary to qualify for entry, no courts to pass sentence, no police, no bars on the windows).

 

It could all be so much better.

Edited August 16, 2015 by George94

[rufus2015]

yes hostels are grim, no one is going to provide luxury hotel accommodation. And there has to be background checks to prevent illegal or other unentitled people abusing the system. If you want help you have to travel to where it is, get out of london and big cities , and to the less congested parts of the country.

[TheBiscuits]

The state does run a hostel system of last resort, where regular meals are provided, and a wholesome discipline is imposed. It's called prison, and for many people it really is the only alternative.

 

My Father spent quite a while in the South of France in his youth, and he tells me that the preferred pattern for some of the people there was to work seasonally in the vineyards, commit just enough of a crime after the harvest to get sentenced to spend 3 or 4 months in the winter locked up and be released as it became warm enough to sleep outdoors the following year.

 

He said this was so common that when one of the chaps was let off the prison sentence one year he actually asked what level did his next crime need to be to deserve prison as it was starting to get cold outdoors under the vines!

[George94]

Stupid Internet.

Edited August 16, 2015 by George94

[Phil Ambrose]

I don't see that anyone is two packets away from having to camp on the pavement, if you start from point zero, ie standing on the street with no money, or anything but the clothes your wearing, you can go to the nearest police station and they will put you in touch with the nearest hostel. Probably salvation army, you get an emergency bed for the night, then you claim benefits, and live in the hostel, the SA take it all off you, but you work for cash in hand until you get the deposit on a room in a shared house, then you find a job, any job, and move on from there. No capable person has to be living rough. The word "homeless" covers a lot of different things to different people, so I didn't use it.

 

The people living on the streets are incapable maybe through no fault of their own to do otherwise. There's not really an answer to that, and its not any governments fault.

I really cannot believe you have written this, it appears everything in your world is all black and white and so simple. I do so hope you never find yourself in the position that many of the homeless and rough sleepers find themselves in.

Phil

[GreyLady]

I don't see that anyone is two packets away from having to camp on the pavement, if you start from point zero, ie standing on the street with no money, or anything but the clothes your wearing, you can go to the nearest police station and they will put you in touch with the nearest hostel. Probably salvation army, you get an emergency bed for the night, then you claim benefits, and live in the hostel, the SA take it all off you, but you work for cash in hand until you get the deposit on a room in a shared house, then you find a job, any job, and move on from there. No capable person has to be living rough. The word "homeless" covers a lot of different things to different people, so I didn't use it.

 

The people living on the streets are incapable maybe through no fault of their own to do otherwise. There's not really an answer to that, and its not any governments fault.

 

You have no clue of the reality regarding the homeless or the way the system works

[Wanted]

yes hostels are grim, no one is going to provide luxury hotel accommodation. And there has to be background checks to prevent illegal or other unentitled people abusing the system. If you want help you have to travel to where it is, get out of london and big cities , and to the less congested parts of the country.

Leaving London is only useful if your local connection is where you are headed for, a single guy rocking up to a council department in Swindon is unlikely to get passed the decision process based on that alone.

 

Given the often unchallenged decisions that I have seen councils wrongly make then I am not convinced that your rather linear advice is correct.

[bassplayer]

 

Good on you.

 

I'm just used to people who loudly insist somebody ELSE should do something, just not them.

 

In your case I didn't know, so I asked. Thanks for answering.

How many have you taken in? Just asking..

[rufus2015]

 

You have no clue of the reality regarding the homeless or the way the system works

I think I do, seeing as I was once homeless. Have you been ?

Leaving London is only useful if your local connection is where you are headed for, a single guy rocking up to a council department in Swindon is unlikely to get passed the decision process based on that alone.

 

Given the often unchallenged decisions that I have seen councils wrongly make then I am not convinced that your rather linear advice is correct.

What do you mean by "decision process" ? All councils have a statutory duty to house people in some way or other don't they ? The council house list is something else, were talking about temporary accommodation. Edited August 17, 2015 by rufus2015

[GreyLady]

I think I do, seeing as I was once homeless. Have you been ?

Yes I have for 14 months.

 

I also know how hard it is to claim Benefits.

[rufus2015]

Yes I have for 14 months.

 

I also know how hard it is to claim Benefits.

Well what was factually wrong with what I posted ? Because its based on what I actually did.

[GreyLady]

Well what was factually wrong with what I posted ? Because its based on what I actually did.

Your quote 'The people living on the streets are incapable'