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7 day Thames license


emlclcy

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Good link, thanks.

 

There used to be some quite awkward and restrictive limits on the number of visitor licenses one could purchase in any given year. Do these restrictions still apply?

 

I can't see any mention of them in the link. Hopefully that have been scrapped!

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Good link, thanks.

 

There used to be some quite awkward and restrictive limits on the number of visitor licenses one could purchase in any given year. Do these restrictions still apply?

 

I can't see any mention of them in the link. Hopefully that have been scrapped!

 

I found that pdf by going here, that info. may be somewhere but I can't see it anyway just having given it a quick once over mind.

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/river-thames-boat-registration-and-application-forms#information

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Good link, thanks.

 

There used to be some quite awkward and restrictive limits on the number of visitor licenses one could purchase in any given year. Do these restrictions still apply?

 

I can't see any mention of them in the link. Hopefully that have been scrapped!

 

As far as I know the limits still exist something like-

6 one day

2 weeks

1 month

 

it may well be that EA don't bother to enforce the limits because to purchase the lot is eye wateringly expensive. Most of the licences that I see are sold at the point of entry and there's no system to check if you've exceeded your allocation...

 

Visitors are very welcome - so it's embarrassing that there's no easy and clear way for a prospective visitor to find out where they stand.

 

The excuse is that all there things are set in stone by the various Thames navigation acts and to change anything is impossible / very expensive to achieve.

 

Edit:

I got it wrong, the following is from the registration form, so it's changed:-

 

6 Registration period

Please note each period of validity begins and ends at midnight.

The number of 1 day and 7 day registrations are unlimited

but only three 31 day registrations can be issued in any

calendar year.

Edited by OldGoat
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6 Registration period

Please note each period of validity begins and ends at midnight.

The number of 1 day and 7 day registrations are unlimited

but only three 31 day registrations can be issued in any

calendar year.

The cost of 2 one month visitor licences about equates to the additional cost of a gold licence; 50ft boat, gold costs an additional £289, 2 months visitor licence £292. So I can't see that anyone with a boat on CRT waters would go the visitor licence route for more then 2 months worth anyway. Of course they could be visiting from the coast or other inland waterways with a CRT visitor licence as well.

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A word to the wise - I purchased a 7 day licence at Swinford (Eynsham) lock earlier this month, and queried the fact that the lock keeper included the first day of purchase as one of the '7 days'. He told me that rule was just for the one day licence. I knew he was wrong but short of calling him a liar - what to do.

Now I am back from cruising for a bit - I will fire an email to EA asking them to clarify it, and perhaps retrain the lock keeper.

 

It did mean our last day on the Thames to Teddington showed an out of date licence, but no-one questioned it.

Edited by Supertramp
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A word to the wise - I purchased a 7 day licence at Swinford (Eynsham) lock earlier this month, and queried the fact that the lock keeper included the first day of purchase as one of the '7 days'. He told me that rule was just for the one day licence. I knew he was wrong but short of calling him a liar - what to do.

Now I am back from cruising for a bit - I will fire an email to EA asking them to clarify it, and perhaps retrain the lock keeper.

 

It did mean our last day on the Thames to Teddington showed an out of date licence, but no-one questioned it.

I have exactly the same thing at Onsey lock last summer, I queried it and accepted it, as you say not much you can do. He also would not sell me 2 weeks, said I had to buy 1 week and then buy another 1 week at a lock when it runs out. Perhaps that is true, but it seems mad to me. I will have the same again this August, so will see if they let me buy 2 weeks this time.

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Further to what I posted in your weir topic, do you need a 7 day licence? If you're doing the Oxford to Reading transit to get onto the K&A, you might wish to do it on a two day licence something like we did. We came on at Duke's Cut in the evening and moored overnight on the lock landing at King's Lock (lots of room), then started off about 8:45am operating that lock ourselves because the Thames lockkeepers are only there 9 to 5:30. We bought a two day licence at Godstow Lock, and apart from an hour or so break at Abingdon we pressed on, operating the last two locks of the day ourselves and mooring overnight just below Goring lock. This left us plenty of time to get off the Thames and out of Reading on day two of our licence, in fact we went all the way on to Aldermaston that day although the general opinion of the forum appears to be that the only bit of Reading to really avoid as a mooring is near Fobney Lock.

 

Of course you may not be in so much of a hurry, and you'll have a bit less daylight to play with than we did. I'm not sure how much the EA might check these licences, perhaps mostly when you pass through a manned lock. Or womanned, as I think a majority of the lockkeepers were female.

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A word to the wise - I purchased a 7 day licence at Swinford (Eynsham) lock earlier this month, and queried the fact that the lock keeper included the first day of purchase as one of the '7 days'. He told me that rule was just for the one day licence. I knew he was wrong but short of calling him a liar - what to do.

Now I am back from cruising for a bit - I will fire an email to EA asking them to clarify it, and perhaps retrain the lock keeper.

 

It did mean our last day on the Thames to Teddington showed an out of date licence, but no-one questioned it.

 

 

My reference was extracted directly from the official licence document that you complete:-

 

" 6 Registration period

Please note each period of validity begins and ends at midnight.

The number of 1 day and 7 day registrations are unlimited

but only three 31 day registrations can be issued in any

calendar year. "

I too thought the 'midnight' bit only applied to the one day licence... I just rang Teddington Lock (who are the experts on this subject because they issue more of these than any other lock) and they say 'No' the extra only applies to the one day licence.

That is at variance with the above explicit wording.

 

Methinks it needs clarification - but it might be some time before I can find someone in authority (higher up the ladder) to give me a definitive answer.

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Further to what I posted in your weir topic, do you need a 7 day licence? If you're doing the Oxford to Reading transit to get onto the K&A, you might wish to do it on a two day licence something like we did. We came on at Duke's Cut in the evening and moored overnight on the lock landing at King's Lock (lots of room), then started off about 8:45am operating that lock ourselves because the Thames lockkeepers are only there 9 to 5:30. We bought a two day licence at Godstow Lock, and apart from an hour or so break at Abingdon we pressed on, operating the last two locks of the day ourselves and mooring overnight just below Goring lock. This left us plenty of time to get off the Thames and out of Reading on day two of our licence, in fact we went all the way on to Aldermaston that day although the general opinion of the forum appears to be that the only bit of Reading to really avoid as a mooring is near Fobney Lock.

 

Of course you may not be in so much of a hurry, and you'll have a bit less daylight to play with than we did. I'm not sure how much the EA might check these licences, perhaps mostly when you pass through a manned lock. Or womanned, as I think a majority of the lockkeepers were female.

 

It seems to make £22 difference going from a 2 to 7 day, we don't want to hurry so will opt for the 7 day. thanks for the input tho. I'll be printing out this post and adding it to my navigation notes :)

what's so bad about fobney lock?

thanks

carl

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My reference was extracted directly from the official licence document that you complete:-

 

" 6 Registration period

Please note each period of validity begins and ends at midnight.

The number of 1 day and 7 day registrations are unlimited

but only three 31 day registrations can be issued in any

calendar year. "

I too thought the 'midnight' bit only applied to the one day licence... I just rang Teddington Lock (who are the experts on this subject because they issue more of these than any other lock) and they say 'No' the extra only applies to the one day licence.

That is at variance with the above explicit wording.

 

 

This document seems to indicate that all temp licences should benefit from the extra hours of the first day

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/420058/LIT_10050.pdf

 

which includes the line "7-day certificate The term ‘day’ is the 24 hours commencing after midnight and finishing at midnight."

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This document seems to indicate that all temp licences should benefit from the extra hours of the first day

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/420058/LIT_10050.pdf

 

which includes the line "7-day certificate The term ‘day’ is the 24 hours commencing after midnight and finishing at midnight."

It does say that, but as has been said that does not seem to be how the lock keepers interpret it.

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This document seems to indicate that all temp licences should benefit from the extra hours of the first day

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/420058/LIT_10050.pdf

 

which includes the line "7-day certificate The term ‘day’ is the 24 hours commencing after midnight and finishing at midnight."

As I read that document, it seems to say that a 57' narrowboat (or a Visiting Launch of 31 to 35 sq metres as they categorise it) can have a one day licence for £39 or a 7 day licence for £61. But Paulmeds got a two day licence issued for £39, issued as I described on the morning of one day and expiring at the end of the next. No mention of it in the document; what's going on there? Does their slightly ambiguous wording really mean the 24 hours start at the moment the licence is bought (i.e. 9am is "after midnight"), then from its expiry the rest of that day up to midnight is a bonus?

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As I read that document, it seems to say that a 57' narrowboat (or a Visiting Launch of 31 to 35 sq metres as they categorise it) can have a one day licence for £39 or a 7 day licence for £61. But Paulmeds got a two day licence issued for £39, issued as I described on the morning of one day and expiring at the end of the next. No mention of it in the document; what's going on there? Does their slightly ambiguous wording really mean the 24 hours start at the moment the licence is bought (i.e. 9am is "after midnight"), then from its expiry the rest of that day up to midnight is a bonus?

 

It is this

 

The term ‘day’ is the 24 hours commencing after midnight and finishing at midnight.

which is taken to mean that the "day" starts at midnight at the end of the day that you buy the licence. So a 1 day licence bought at 9am gives you until midnight the following day, for example if you buy the licence on the 1st, they will date it the 2nd, so in practical terms you get "2 days".

 

The ambiguity seems to be that people are saying (and it happened to me last summer) that if you buy a 7 day licence they don't apply that even though the wording is exactly the same between 1 day, 7 day and 1 month licences. So a 7 day licence bought on the 1st would be dated the 7th, and not the 8th as you would expect to be consistent with the way that they interpret the 1 day licences. That is exactly what happened to me at Onsey lock.

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I have no idea why peeps are querying the definition of a day. If you buy a one-day licence today the period is for TODAY, which commenced at midnight (last night) and expires at midnight tonight. Why would it be any different? If it doesn't expire until tomorrow then I would be navigating today without a valid licence. Same principle for a 7 day licence.

 

By any reasonable interpretation and usage of English the lockies are doing it right.

 

If you went to Alton Towers at 4pm and bought a one-day ticket would you expect to get in the following day as well?

 

DUHHHH !!!

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I have no idea why peeps are querying the definition of a day. If you buy a one-day licence today the period is for TODAY, which commenced at midnight (last night) and expires at midnight tonight. Why would it be any different? If it doesn't expire until tomorrow then I would be navigating today without a valid licence. Same principle for a 7 day licence.

 

By any reasonable interpretation and usage of English the lockies are doing it right.

 

If you went to Alton Towers at 4pm and bought a one-day ticket would you expect to get in the following day as well?

 

DUHHHH !!!

So why is a 1 day interpreted differently to a 7 day then? They both use the same wording, yet the interpretation is different.

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It is this

which is taken to mean that the "day" starts at midnight at the end of the day that you buy the licence. So a 1 day licence bought at 9am gives you until midnight the following day, for example if you buy the licence on the 1st, they will date it the 2nd, so in practical terms you get "2 days".

 

The ambiguity seems to be that people are saying (and it happened to me last summer) that if you buy a 7 day licence they don't apply that even though the wording is exactly the same between 1 day, 7 day and 1 month licences. So a 7 day licence bought on the 1st would be dated the 7th, and not the 8th as you would expect to be consistent with the way that they interpret the 1 day licences. That is exactly what happened to me at Onsey lock.

 

YES

 

I have no idea why peeps are querying the definition of a day. If you buy a one-day licence today the period is for TODAY, which commenced at midnight (last night) and expires at midnight tonight. Why would it be any different? If it doesn't expire until tomorrow then I would be navigating today without a valid licence. Same principle for a 7 day licence.

 

By any reasonable interpretation and usage of English the lockies are doing it right.

 

If you went to Alton Towers at 4pm and bought a one-day ticket would you expect to get in the following day as well?

 

DUHHHH !!!

 

Because.....

EA have determined otherwise. I suspect that 'someone in authority' had decided that available on the day of issue only was unfair for people who came into the system at teatime, so the midnight to midnight rule was added for clarity / certainty.

 

So why is a 1 day interpreted differently to a 7 day then? They both use the same wording, yet the interpretation is different.

 

Yes, but lockies are instructed by 'someone at Reading' and they're on a 'fizzer' if they don't obey the rules.

I will try to follow it up through TNUF, but quite frankly for the few who want to 'manipulate' the system slightly (that is using their own interpretation) it's not worth stirring it up.

 

From my view as a Thames boater, the River needs all the income it can get, so it's better to have folks who pay for a licence (rather than those who scuttle along for free out of hours) - even if some 'may' be getting a day's extra because of an inexactitude in the definition.

 

The more boats the better.

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From my view as a Thames boater, the River needs all the income it can get, so it's better to have folks who pay for a licence (rather than those who scuttle along for free out of hours) - even if some 'may' be getting a day's extra because of an inexactitude in the definition.

 

The more boats the better.

 

Why don't the CRT look after the Thames as well?

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From my view as a Thames boater, the River needs all the income it can get, so it's better to have folks who pay for a licence (rather than those who scuttle along for free out of hours) - even if some 'may' be getting a day's extra because of an inexactitude in the definition.

 

The more boats the better.

 

Why don't the CRT look after the Thames as well?

 

Don't get me going on that one....

 

The fear is that CaRT will dump all the lockies and you'll have to work the locks yourselves. That's no problem for canal boaters, but it would ruin the whole character of the River - there are a lot of local boaters who would give up boating = loss of 'license' revenue which would make it unattractive to CaRT. The water management issue is very complex and would probably have to stay with EA, so wouldn't save the government much money in the long run.

 

As nobody knows as yet what the terms would be the whole matter is one of FUD.

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