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Mike the Boilerman

Zundfix ignitors...

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On Tim's advice I bought a tin of Zundfix ignitors for starting the Skandia, but they don't work for me. If I light one in freash air it fizzes, crackles and burns for about a minute before expiring, but if I light one and bung it in the chamber in the cylinder head, it just goes out immediately instead of igniting the fuel charge. I know this because it will still be sitting in there unburned when I've finished failing to start the engine!

 

I imagine I'm doing something wrong. There are no instructions on the tin.Does anyone know how they are supposed to be used?

 

Thanks!

Edited by Mike the Boilerman

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Not sure if zundfix is the correct way to go.......i could be wrong(have been beforejudge.gif ).

I have a box of Danish quick starters in the boat and they still make them,i'll check tomorrow.

 

/Christian

  • Greenie 2

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Zundfix starters are self igniting under compression.

 

Well mine certainly don't!

Not sure if zundfix is the correct way to go.......i could be wrong(have been beforejudge.gif ).

I have a box of Danish quick starters in the boat and they still make them,i'll check tomorrow.

 

/Christian

 

Ah ok, thanks! Do you have to light them manually or are they supposed to self-ignite?

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Any help? ...

 

http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=58917

 

and http://www.sporttaco.com/uk.rec.sailing/Starting_a_cold_diesel_without_glow_plugs_3609.htmlhas this:

 

"I don't have any experience of the engine in question, but I have similar
issues when starting my single cyl. Sabb diesel in the winter.

I find that squirting a shot or two of lub. oil into the piston will help
start it. This not only helps compression, but the presence of the oil makes
the diesel burn sooner in the stroke, which is good because the compression
of my engine isn't up to scratch anyway.

I also have a little plug on the cylinder head that holds 'torch paper'. I
don't know what this stuff is, but it has never failed to start the engine.
It looks like a cigarette;a white stick with a pink/red end. Shove this in
the holder, screw it in and start the engine as normal. I have never seen
them for sale, but the PO gave me five or six hundred of these so I haven't
run out yet (I bought the boat 14 years ago). I think the torch paper is
called 'Zundfix'.

On top of the engine is also the valve lubrication system, which is very
primitive. It is just a reservoir of oil that slowly dribbles onto the valve
springs. It does, however, have a tube that fires oil straight down, into
the inlet valve stem, and I also squirt a few shots onto this when I stop
the engine for the day - even in summer.

Maybe you don't have any of these little things on your engine, in which
case, sorry!


David"

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My home made ones ( rolled up blotting paper soaked in salt-petre) about the diameter of a cigarette ,stick them on the end of a T handled threaded bar(part of the engine) , light with a match and they just smoulder like a cigar or a firework when you first put a light to it, screw them in (1 per cylinder) wait about 30 secs and crank the engine , it starts far quicker than without them.The idea is to provide extra heat at starting in the combustion chamber, not to ignite the fuel directly. I am talking about Ailsa Craig diesels but old Rustons have a scheme for lighting a little fire in the inlet manifold- this warms the air as it passes to the cylinders but does not ignite the fuel in the combustion chamber, that is still achieved by compression . I know, clear as mud and probably not relevant.

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Thanks Lady C. Helpful links but no definitive instructions about how to use the Zundfix product.

 

Most of the discussions revolve around their use in a four stroke engine, often with decompressors. My two stroke has no decompressor and one starts it by pushing the flywheel back and forth, bouncing against the compression. eventually it fires and the direction of rotation is pot luck. If it starts in the wrong direction it can be reversed by slowing to almost a stop then opening the throttle again at just the right moment.

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Thanks Lady C. Helpful links but no definitive instructions about how to use the Zundfix product.

 

Most of the discussions revolve around their use in a four stroke engine, often with decompressors. My two stroke has no decompressor and one starts it by pushing the flywheel back and forth, bouncing against the compression. eventually it fires and the direction of rotation is pot luck. If it starts in the wrong direction it can be reversed by slowing to almost a stop then opening the throttle again at just the right moment.

Any help

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Just as info to the video link the guy lights the zündfix as a precaution "as they are old and have been rained on"

Edited by Afloat

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good morningboat.gif

Been down by the boat and took some pics of the cold starters.

I haven't google it yet but i will.

I also added a pic of the electric glow plug,they look's almost the same on all engines.

Waiting for a response from a guy that do some restoring on a Skandia 120,maybe he have a manual.

 

/Christian

 

R0011224.jpg

 

R0011225.jpg

 

R0011226.jpg

 

R0011227.jpg

 

R0011228.jpg

Edited by BM 1051

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Mike,

 

Do you still have that rather nice 2-cylinder "H" series Lister that you picked up at a bargain price?

 

Simple answer is to bung that in instead of the Skandia - it will start effortlessly from cold, and you'll be up and running in seconds without any of the faff!

 

ETA: It will also always start rotating in the correct direction!

Edited by alan_fincher

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http://www.pconradsen.dk/fileadmin/Arkiv/Billeder/Download/Fiskeriartikler/katalogsider/489-119GL.pdf

http://histoparts.com/en/webshop/miscellaneous/auto-starters.html

So they seem to be still available

If anyone has the manufacturing details, do tell me please. I do have contacts that might make them (appropriately licensed!).

http://histoparts.com/en/webshop/miscellaneous/chocolate-tools-and-parts.html

But no chocolate teapots!.

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Mike,

 

Do you still have that rather nice 2-cylinder "H" series Lister that you picked up at a bargain price?

 

Simple answer is to bung that in instead of the Skandia - it will start effortlessly from cold, and you'll be up and running in seconds without any of the faff!

 

ETA: It will also always start rotating in the correct direction!

 

 

I do. As it happens, I mentioned this possibility to Simon the other day and I never saw anyone look more horrified and distressed.

 

Replacing a Skandia with a Lister? What WAS I thinking of? I mean, who on earth would want a Lister in their boat?

 

:D

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Just as info to the video link the guy lights the zündfix as a precaution "as they are old and have been rained on"

 

 

I think this might be the problem. My Zundfix things are about the size of the one used in the video, I think, although it's hard to see. My engine is about twenty times bigger!

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good morningboat.gif

Been down by the boat and took some pics of the cold starters.

I haven't google it yet but i will.

I also added a pic of the electric glow plug,they look's almost the same on all engines.

Waiting for a response from a guy that do some restoring on a Skandia 120,maybe he have a manual.

 

/Christian

 

 

 

R0011227.jpg

 

 

 

Christian,

 

This looks a bit more like it! The odd thing is my engine has a similar looking plug for the ignitors but mine has no hole in it like the one in your photo. The hole in the cylinder head is 16mm in diameter and about 3" deep so I suspect one is supposed to just bung a Danit Startpatroner in there and put the plug back.

 

Any idea where I can get some of those danit startpatroners? I've googled but not really got very far. All my results are in Swedish and none seems to be an on line shop!

 

Many thanks for your excellent photos.

Edited by Mike the Boilerman

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I haven't got any further myself...............

The guy i bougth my boat from says that they still make those in Denmark(not sure were).

About the guy with the manual for the 120,it was a 120.....HPjudge.gifclapping.gif

 

/Christian

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I've been looking for some of these for my Seffle.

 

The few I have were made by Hansson Pyrotechnic but they also seem to be difficult to get hold of.

 

Tim

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I do. As it happens, I mentioned this possibility to Simon the other day and I never saw anyone look more horrified and distressed.

 

Replacing a Skandia with a Lister? What WAS I thinking of? I mean, who on earth would want a Lister in their boat?

 

biggrin.png

 

Read my post you quoted!

 

Somebody who just wants to start their engine up, and set of straight away, without frigging about with blow-lamps, small explosive charges, or introducing petrol on to a boat that doesn't otherwise require it.

 

I'll concede you semi-diesel, (or even Kelvin), guys can usually get under way faster from a cold start up than President, Adamant or Laplander, but even so........

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Hi Mike, I've had airstart engines in several barges I've had in the past, Kromhout, Industrie and Baudouin, and they all needed the self igniting Zundfix cigarette kind of things when it was really cold.

 

They are self igniting because of the heat that you get in the cylinder during the compression stroke, I'm not familiar with your Skandia engine, but normally you shouldn'ty have to lite these things before you screw them in position.

 

The ones you have, probably haven't been stored well enough and may have lost their self igniting capacity due to humidity.

 

If you can't find them in the U.K. here's a link to what I think is the cheapest supplier in the Netherlands, make sure you'll get the right diameter.

 

http://histoparts.com/nl/webshop/diversen/startlonten/product___50-80006___zundfix-startlonten-6-mm.html

 

Peter.

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Hi Mike, I've had airstart engines in several barges I've had in the past, Kromhout, Industrie and Baudouin, and they all needed the self igniting Zundfix cigarette kind of things when it was really cold.

 

They are self igniting because of the heat that you get in the cylinder during the compression stroke, I'm not familiar with your Skandia engine, but normally you shouldn'ty have to lite these things before you screw them in position.

 

The ones you have, probably haven't been stored well enough and may have lost their self igniting capacity due to humidity.

 

If you can't find them in the U.K. here's a link to what I think is the cheapest supplier in the Netherlands, make sure you'll get the right diameter.

 

http://histoparts.com/nl/webshop/diversen/startlonten/product___50-80006___zundfix-startlonten-6-mm.html

 

Peter.

 

 

Thanks Peter, that's the place I bought mine from and they only sell them up to 8mm. The hole mine fit into is 16mm in diameter.

 

I also find it hard to understand how they can self ignite. Mine don't do anything under compression.. And if I light one before inserting, it self-extinguishes on compression, hence my suspicion I'm doing something very wrong...

 

!

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On Tim's advice I bought a tin of Zundfix ignitors for starting the Skandia, but they don't work for me. If I light one in freash air it fizzes, crackles and burns for about a minute before expiring, but if I light one and bung it in the chamber in the cylinder head, it just goes out immediately instead of igniting the fuel charge. I know this because it will still be sitting in there unburned when I've finished failing to start the engine!

 

I imagine I'm doing something wrong. There are no instructions on the tin.Does anyone know how they are supposed to be used?

 

Thanks!

 

 

I've assumed they are designed to be used instead of heating the hot bulb with a blowlamp. Now I'm wondering if they are supposed to be used in conjunction with a heated hot bulb. Does anybody know please?

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i must ask,why don't you go electric?

In my opinion blow torch is for fun or show,cold starters if you got any,electric quick and easy but not for show.

 

/Christian

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