Engine room hatches on tidal Thames

[Painter Type]

Am cruising from Limehouse to Teddington for the first time this weekend.

 

I have an air cooled lister (HR3) and therefore normally cruise with the engine room side-hatches open for cooling.

 

Just considering the possibility of getting a wave of water come crashing through the hatches - wash from a water taxi perhaps?

 

Hatches start just under 2' up from the waterline.

 

Does anybody have experience which could help decide if I need to worry about this?

[StephenA]

You might get some spray but the only time we hit big waves was coming down stream on the falling tide and you get standing waves under one of the bridges: : they exposed the bottom plate and just about topped the gunwale.

 

I'd be tempted to leave them open but but someone standing by inside to close them if you think the incoming wash could cause problems.

[magnetman]

Would it be possible to fit plywood "wash boards" to raise the side deck height in the doorway by say 8 inches?

I doubt you would get any water in but I would find it unnerving personally . some of the city cruises boats do make a large wash..

 

Excellent hardware in Salmon Lane in Limehouse (ocean builders supplies) they so ply and cut to size

[alan_fincher]

Surely cruiser stern narrow boats regulalarly make this passge where the height of the deck above waterline is no higher than your engine room doors?

 

I wouldn't have thought it was going to be a lot different, (although equally I'm sure on a rough day it will not stay completely bone dry either!)

[Tony Dunkley]

Am cruising from Limehouse to Teddington for the first time this weekend.

 

I have an air cooled lister (HR3) and therefore normally cruise with the engine room side-hatches open for cooling.

 

Just considering the possibility of getting a wave of water come crashing through the hatches - wash from a water taxi perhaps?

 

Hatches start just under 2' up from the waterline.

 

Does anybody have experience which could help decide if I need to worry about this?

 

Your engine cooling hot air should be directed out via a ducting up to the cabin top, leaving only the incoming cold air needing a means of getting in to the engineroom. That could be taken care of by having the engineroom door slides open (with the doors closed) and the pigeon box off.

Edited July 15, 2015 by Tony Dunkley

[magnetman]

This was one of my boats being hit by the wash from a City Cruises tripper a couple of years ago under tower bridge

 

 

Boat is 42x9ft with gunnels about 18 inches above waterline

They increased speed on approach either that was there intention or a windup for a small boat using the centre arch

Edited July 15, 2015 by magnetman

[Paul's Nulife4-2]

Hi all,

Now a few years ago when I saw a NB make the trip from Limehouse to Gillingham I noticed they had an improvised 'Snorkel' type arrangement prefabricated out of what seems to be thinish Ducting metal !, (A bit like you see on some Landrovers) it raised the air intakes up to well above the gunwale level, and was 'shaped' to finish flush with the Cabin bulkhead so it didn't become a trip hazard on the aft deck. It seemed to work fine, can't remember the boat name, but if they are members on here I'm sure they will be along in a bit.

[WJM]

[Painter Type]

Hi Tony,

 

Thanks for that, I appreciate that hot air should be ducted away but have not arranged that so far, and neither have I installed a pigeon box.

 

Would I get enough cool air coming in by just having the slides open? If so I could leave the port-side hatch closed...

[OldGoat]

There was a sinking a couple of years (?) ago as a result of low level air intake commonly fitted to NBs. If you're at all worried then I'd block them for a short period.

In general it's the trip boats that cause the problem and most of them disappear after Vauxhall Bridge. If you scuttle along the laqndward side AND turn into the wash if you see a big wave coming, you should be alright.

 

Methinks the short period of somewhat restricted air flow shouldn't cause a problem for 1/2 hour or so.

Of course, if you start the transit before the trip boats start operating then large waves wont happen in the first place.

[Tony Dunkley]

Hi Tony,

 

Thanks for that, I appreciate that hot air should be ducted away but have not arranged that so far, and neither have I installed a pigeon box.

 

Would I get enough cool air coming in by just having the slides open? If so I could leave the port-side hatch closed...

 

No, without any ducting you'll just be recirculating the heated air and the engine temperature will keep steadily rising. You really should get the ducting in before you go, not least of all, because you'll probably be working the engine harder than you ever have before.

[Scholar Gypsy]

There was a sinking a couple of years (?) ago as a result of low level air intake commonly fitted to NBs. If you're at all worried then I'd block them for a short period.

In general it's the trip boats that cause the problem and most of them disappear after Vauxhall Bridge. If you scuttle along the laqndward side AND turn into the wash if you see a big wave coming, you should be alright.

 

Methinks the short period of somewhat restricted air flow shouldn't cause a problem for 1/2 hour or so.

Of course, if you start the transit before the trip boats start operating then large waves wont happen in the first place.

 

The sinking was caused by the bottom of the air intake being below the water line! See photos here.

 

The other issue, I would observe, is it will depend on whether your boat is the sort that cuts through waves or bounces up when you hit them, Mine is the latter. Here is a photo of the former (courtesy of Leo Mo 2) - it does mean your bow fender gets washed regularly.

 

[mark99]

Or go very early in morning to avoid the traffic.

[NilesMI]

Or go very early in morning to avoid the traffic.

 

I would think that if open sides or low air intake vents could cause water to ingress, the correct decision would be not to make the trip at all, rather than think that by going early enough to avoid the trip boats you can be assured you will not encounter wash/waves sufficient to cause a problem.

[SamKingfisher]

He said the hatches are 2' from the waterline. While he may ship the odd bucketful, he's not going to sink as a result of an aperture 2' up. Not unless a big bugger of a boat goes round and round him in circles all the way.

[NilesMI]

Maybe no significant danger of sinking but the OP was concerned about water ingess to the engine room, generally. I took that to mean he was concerned about problems short of actually flooding the boat and whether he was likely to encounter waves/wash which could enter the open hatches.

 

To add that I'm grazing these threads as I'm planning to make my first trip up the tideway in a few weeks, being fairly apprehensive, wondering just what I will encounter. I've been warned of waves/wash and precautions to take. Go early. etc.

 

Actually looking at the pictures posted by WJM in #8, the extent of waves/was shown there look no worse than the tidal Trent on a breezy day. Having done that without to much trauma (but with a deal of planning and preparation) I'm now feeling a lot more confident that what I, the boat and my crew will have to deal with will be within our capabilities.

[peterboat]

This was one of my boats being hit by the wash from a City Cruises tripper a couple of years ago under tower bridge

 

 

Boat is 42x9ft with gunnels about 18 inches above waterline

They increased speed on approach either that was there intention or a windup for a small boat using the centre arch

City cruises I went on one the other week could have been that boat even they do seem to deliberately cause big waves

 

Peter

[Tim Lewis]

 

No, without any ducting you'll just be recirculating the heated air and the engine temperature will keep steadily rising. You really should get the ducting in before you go, not least of all, because you'll probably be working the engine harder than you ever have before.

 

Whenever we have done Thames tideway with the flow we rarely have run the engine hard, in fact we tend run just over tickover, you only need to be just faster than the tide to give you steering.

 

Tim

[NilesMI]

Surely the whole idea of the trip is to experience the capital's river and enjoy the sights. Gunning all the way upstream on the flood would just mean whizzing past all the interesting stuff.

 

If you really want to have to work an engine hard, my suggestion would be to do the Douglas/Ribble link.

[Painter Type]

Hi Magnetman,

 

I too thought of the idea of some plywood wash boards, will probably do it as part of boat prep, not hard, have acres of plywood lying around and some handy brackets to screw into oak hatch trim.

 

Thanks for that

[system 4-50]

from an Engine Room egg presumably. I always wondered where they came from.

[magnetman]

Nice

[adam1uk]

 

Whenever we have done Thames tideway with the flow we rarely have run the engine hard, in fact we tend run just over tickover, you only need to be just faster than the tide to give you steering.

 

Tim

 

Agree with this entirely. Going with the tide means you don't need to work your engine hard at all. And you'll still probably be going the fastest you'll ever go!

[Tony Dunkley]

 

Whenever we have done Thames tideway with the flow we rarely have run the engine hard, in fact we tend run just over tickover, you only need to be just faster than the tide to give you steering.

 

Tim

 

Whilst what you say about running with the tide is quite true, I hope you're not advocating knowingly setting out onto a river with an engine that will overheat if worked much above idling speed.

[Scholar Gypsy]

Maybe no significant danger of sinking but the OP was concerned about water ingess to the engine room, generally. I took that to mean he was concerned about problems short of actually flooding the boat and whether he was likely to encounter waves/wash which could enter the open hatches.

 

To add that I'm grazing these threads as I'm planning to make my first trip up the tideway in a few weeks, being fairly apprehensive, wondering just what I will encounter. I've been warned of waves/wash and precautions to take. Go early. etc.

 

Actually looking at the pictures posted by WJM in #8, the extent of waves/was shown there look no worse than the tidal Trent on a breezy day. Having done that without to much trauma (but with a deal of planning and preparation) I'm now feeling a lot more confident that what I, the boat and my crew will have to deal with will be within our capabilities.

 

There's quite a bit of stuff on earlier threads, but in addition to the points made here I would add:

• spend half an hour listening to the VHF so you get some idea of how other boats use it, and what you can learn from what other boats are saying
• keep looking behind you.
• know where the piers are, esp those on the right hand (north) bank, and watch out for boats (going in either direction) wanting to get to a pier or to break away. Move out if appropriate (eg if a boat is coming up behind you, they can then overtake you on the starboard ie wrong side).
• don't get swept to the outside, esp on left hand bends. This is a particular issue at Hammersmith where you should aim to go under the bridge (ie the word "BRIDGE") and then leave the green cone to starboard.
• Enjoy!