robdalej Posted June 23, 2015 Report Share Posted June 23, 2015 Just had a 30 ft boat surveyed with a view to purchase, the surveyor has told me that, whilst the hull is in generally very good condition , withh minimal signs of pitting to the sides, the base plate , which is 6 mm , has signs of pitting to 3 mm. He says that , as the boat is 17 yrs old it is to be expected and I shouldnt worry too much as ,chances are I may be looking at anew base plate in 10 years time but I feel that any signs of base plate wear should be avoided, or am i being over-careful? worry that if i came to sell the boat in a few years time i may come across problems/any views anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgiesburnin Posted June 23, 2015 Report Share Posted June 23, 2015 Does the price that you are paying reflect the condition of the boat that you are buying? If its cheap then you now know why and if its not then get it cheaper. The other alternative would be to walk away but as the surveyor has said, the pitting is conducive to the age of the boat. Is the price? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Smith Posted June 23, 2015 Report Share Posted June 23, 2015 In view of this I would ask the vendor for a reduction so if and when you need an over plate or new bum it will soften the blow. Neil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigste Posted June 23, 2015 Report Share Posted June 23, 2015 If I read correctly, your base is 3mm in places. Surely that makes it uninsurable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DHutch Posted June 23, 2015 Report Share Posted June 23, 2015 If I read correctly, your base is 3mm in places. Surely that makes it uninsurable.Depends on the insurer I guess, I know boats with less.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchcrawler Posted June 23, 2015 Report Share Posted June 23, 2015 You are unlikely to find a boat anywhere near that age with no pitting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troyboy Posted June 23, 2015 Report Share Posted June 23, 2015 I'm waiting for those from the ' No need to black the base plate ' camp to comment on this thread . I have always painted the base plate on my boat and when surveyed for insurance purposes the surveyor made positive comments in his report . The maximum pitting on my painted baseplate after 25 years was 0.4 mm. Having said that my boat has spent most of its life in clean river water rather than canal filth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamKingfisher Posted June 23, 2015 Report Share Posted June 23, 2015 If it is only a few pits, they could be welded. Suspect not though. You can insure it, but 3rd party. It isn't going to sink as a result of 3mm on the baseplate. I'm waiting for those from the ' No need to black the base plate ' camp to comment on this thread . I have always painted the base plate on my boat and when surveyed for insurance purposes the surveyor made positive comments in his report . The maximum pitting on my painted baseplate after 25 years was 0.4 mm. Having said that my boat has spent most of its life in clean river water rather than canal filth. Well, most baseplates are 10mm, so after 17 years would still be 7mm, more than the sides! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Schweizer Posted June 23, 2015 Report Share Posted June 23, 2015 (edited) I'm waiting for those from the ' No need to black the base plate ' camp to comment on this thread . I have always painted the base plate on my boat and when surveyed for insurance purposes the surveyor made positive comments in his report . The maximum pitting on my painted baseplate after 25 years was 0.4 mm. Having said that my boat has spent most of its life in clean river water rather than canal filth. Happy to oblige, The maximum pitting measured three years ago on my 33 year old unpainted base plate was less than 0.4mm, and it has spent all it's life in the (filthy) canal!! Edited June 23, 2015 by David Schweizer 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rickent Posted June 23, 2015 Report Share Posted June 23, 2015 My boat is 34 years old and maximum pitting on baseplate is 0.5mm. Unpainted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troyboy Posted June 23, 2015 Report Share Posted June 23, 2015 I don't think most 17 year old boats had 10mm base plates , more recent ones maybe but I suspect Helvetia and Ragtime Dancer have base plates around 6 mm which was the norm 30 years ago . I also suspect quality of steel has some bearing on this . Not knowing who built Helvetia or Ragtime Dancer I cannot comment on their builders reputation but it has been suggested that the quality of older steel is better than that used more recently . Robdalej hasn't mentioned who built the boat referred to but for the baseplate to have 3mm pits suggests poor quality steel and / or poor maintenance i.e. baseplate not painted. I have read threads relating to painting baseplates where it is suggested lack of oxygen below the boat means baseplates don't rust . That theory goes out of the window somewhat in this case unless the boat has spent a considerable period out of the water . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloomsberry Posted June 23, 2015 Report Share Posted June 23, 2015 There are 2 sides to a baseplate, it's possible most of the corrosion could have occured on the upper surface if there is a lot of moisture there. My boat is 35 years old and was surveyed last year and the base plate was down to a minimum of 5.4mm from an original thickness of 6.1mm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackrose Posted June 23, 2015 Report Share Posted June 23, 2015 I also suspect quality of steel has some bearing on this . Not knowing who built Helvetia or Ragtime Dancer I cannot comment on their builders reputation but it has been suggested that the quality of older steel is better than that used more recently . Yes, that myth is often suggested by people who just repeat what they have heard from others who also don't know what they are talking about. According to Eric Partington of the Nickel Institute who I've personally met, if anything it's the other way around. The specifications and standards to which modern steel is manufactured are tighter and so the quality is better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rickent Posted June 23, 2015 Report Share Posted June 23, 2015 Ragtime dancer was built by Hamilton fabrications in 1981 and does have a 6mm baseplate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil2 Posted June 23, 2015 Report Share Posted June 23, 2015 Hmmm. A different surveyor might take the view this boat needs overplating, I'd assume the worst ie there is extensive pitting to 3mm and factor in the cost of a new bottom. The length of the boat means there won't be a queue of buyers so the vendor should go along with it. As for the old steel/new steel debate, I agree with Blackrose the quality of modern steel is likely to be better than in days gone by for all sorts of reasons. Unpainted baseplates do rust quicker than treated, that is a fact, quite why there are examples of unpainted baseplates with minimal rust no-one knows but to use these isolated examples as justification for not painting/blacking your bottom is foolhardy, in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John V Posted June 23, 2015 Report Share Posted June 23, 2015 Yes, that myth is often suggested by people who just repeat what they have heard from others who also don't know what they are talking about. According to Eric Partington of the Nickel Institute who I've personally met, if anything it's the other way around. The specifications and standards to which modern steel is manufactured are tighter and so the quality is better. The only thing I would say about that is...the specifications and standards may be more precise for a particular grade of steel and it may in deed have more predictable and reliable qualities but that doesn't mean to say that the boat builder of today is necessarily using as good quality a grade of steel as one 30 years ago 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchcrawler Posted June 23, 2015 Report Share Posted June 23, 2015 I mat a boater 2 weeks ago on his way to Streethay for a new bottom. He found that the pump out toilet had been leaking for years and rotted it from the inside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Schweizer Posted June 23, 2015 Report Share Posted June 23, 2015 (edited) I don't think most 17 year old boats had 10mm base plates , more recent ones maybe but I suspect Helvetia and Ragtime Dancer have base plates around 6 mm which was the norm 30 years ago . I also suspect quality of steel has some bearing on this . Not knowing who built Helvetia or Ragtime Dancer I cannot comment on their builders reputation but it has been suggested that the quality of older steel is better than that used more recently . Robdalej hasn't mentioned who built the boat referred to but for the baseplate to have 3mm pits suggests poor quality steel and / or poor maintenance i.e. baseplate not painted. I have read threads relating to painting baseplates where it is suggested lack of oxygen below the boat means baseplates don't rust . That theory goes out of the window somewhat in this case unless the boat has spent a considerable period out of the water . You assume wrong!!! Helvetia has a 10mm base plate, 6mm hull sides, and 5 mm cabin and roof, she was built in 1982 by Braunston Canal Services (Balliol Fowden), fabrication by Roger Farrington and Dave Thomas. You need to do a bit more research before making uninformed statements. Many quality builders were fabricating 10mm base plates farv more than twenty years ago, Edited June 23, 2015 by David Schweizer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Schweizer Posted June 23, 2015 Report Share Posted June 23, 2015 Yes, that myth is often suggested by people who just repeat what they have heard from others who also don't know what they are talking about. According to Eric Partington of the Nickel Institute who I've personally met, if anything it's the other way around. The specifications and standards to which modern steel is manufactured are tighter and so the quality is better. In some ways that is true, but some rolling mills in the early 1980s were apparently producing steel which was to a higher specification than the new BS dpecifications required. In those circumstances,the effect of the new specification was for future production to be made down to the new BS Spec. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troyboy Posted June 23, 2015 Report Share Posted June 23, 2015 David, Whilst your quality builder was using 10mm baseplate in 1982 I still maintain that 6mm was 'the norm'. My boat was built by Peter Nicholls and his standard baseplate in the 80's was 6mm but upgrades to 10mm were available . Regarding doing research I have some loose leaf articles from Waterways World early 90's I believe entitled The new narrowboat builders book . Chapter one on page 5 under plating specification has the following :- The bottom plate on vee -bottomed hulls is often thinner than 10mm. Smaller conventional shells may be as light as 6/5/3 [ which was the norm for all narrowboats fifteen years ago]. The author of these articles was Graham Booth and I believe these articles were subsequently consolidated into a book .How much research he done before making that statement I do not know. I go with my original statement that 6mm baseplate was the norm 30 years ago HOWEVER some builders were using thicker plate . The article also mentions reputable builders specify 43A plate described as general shipbuilding steel conforming to British Standard 4360. It would appear that Helvetia, Ragtime Dancer and Troy have all benefitted from quality steel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan_fincher Posted June 23, 2015 Report Share Posted June 23, 2015 I don't think most 17 year old boats had 10mm base plates ,. If you actually mean 17 years, then yes, they nearly all do. Just sold a mid-range 20 year old, and, line most of that age it had a 10mm base-plate. You need to go back more than 20 years to find large numbers of boats being built with bottoms of less than 10mm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan_fincher Posted June 23, 2015 Report Share Posted June 23, 2015 (edited) I go with my original statement that 6mm baseplate was the norm 30 years ago HOWEVER some builders were using thicker plate . 30 years or 17? Not quite the same thing, are they? Edited June 23, 2015 by alan_fincher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtB Posted June 23, 2015 Report Share Posted June 23, 2015 but I feel that any signs of base plate wear should be avoided, or am i being over-careful? Impossible to comment without knowing the price. If it's £3k then I don't see a problem. If it's £30k then you should be demanding no pitting at all! P.S. Just had my own 1993 boat surveyed. Survey report says 10mm baseplate has pitting up to 1.1mm (for what that's worth!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUMPY Posted June 24, 2015 Report Share Posted June 24, 2015 I mat a boater 2 weeks ago on his way to Streethay for a new bottom. He found that the pump out toilet had been leaking for years and rotted it from the inside.Surely he needs to get the PO and his baseplate fixed.If he gets his bottom done then he will explode Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larkshall Posted June 24, 2015 Report Share Posted June 24, 2015 The only thing I would say about that is...the specifications and standards may be more precise for a particular grade of steel and it may in deed have more predictable and reliable qualities but that doesn't mean to say that the boat builder of today is necessarily using as good quality a grade of steel as one 30 years ago Isn't that the truth. Anyone know what grades builders are using, and for that matter what grades are available Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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