Crt Guidance For Operating Canal Equipment

[Blazeaway]

Just been reading horror stories about boat sinkings in locks and I am flabbergasted to discover CRT provides no guidance or safety advice on operation of locks, bridges etc.

 

 

As a person relatively new to this world of narrow boating I am aware of a lack of prominence of info explaining or showing how to properly and safely take a boat through a lock.

 

I accept that I should go on a helmsmanship course but that will only partially cover whats required.

 

When I was working in big industry there were loads of safety videos on all sorts of eg fork lift trucks etc.

 

Surely this is something CRT should provide as it is their infrastructure that is employed and it would appear that most of these sinkings are often operator error. Not surprising if no proper specific guidance is provided.

 

Have I missed something somewhere or this a glaring big hole in CRT's info.

[Dave Clinton]

A helmspersonship course worth its salt will cover lock and other operating structure usage.

 

CRT publish the boater's handbook with comprehensive instructions.

 

It's not rocket science. People rarely have sinking through ignorance, it's usually incompetence, bad training (or failure to pay attention to the training), complacency or carelessness.

 

Can you get training videos for that?

 

I would rather not have my experience spoilt by your need to be nannied through the learning process.

[Laurence Hogg]

Just been reading horror stories about boat sinkings in locks and I am flabbergasted to discover CRT provides no guidance or safety advice on operation of locks, bridges etc.

 

 

As a person relatively new to this world of narrow boating I am aware of a lack of prominence of info explaining or showing how to properly and safely take a boat through a lock.

 

I accept that I should go on a helmsmanship course but that will only partially cover whats required.

 

When I was working in big industry there were loads of safety videos on all sorts of eg fork lift trucks etc.

 

Surely this is something CRT should provide as it is their infrastructure that is employed and it would appear that most of these sinkings are often operator error. Not surprising if no proper specific guidance is provided.

 

Have I missed something somewhere or this a glaring big hole in CRT's info.

 

There is a free publication called "The boaters handbook" available from CRT in any quantity required. It does go to some detail about how to safely pass through locks etc. Its not perfect but a good place to start learning.

[cuthound]

There is a free publication called "The boaters handbook" available from CRT in any quantity required. It does go to some detail about how to safely pass through locks etc. Its not perfect but a good place to start learning.

And it is now sent to every licence holder

 

Realistically, it is up to the boat user to find out how to operate it safely. Plenty of info out there (helmsmans courses, boaters handbook, Nicholson's, this and other forums etc) for those who take responsibility for finding out how to do things properly.

[MtB]

Just been reading horror stories about boat sinkings in locks and I am flabbergasted to discover CRT provides no guidance or safety advice on operation of locks, bridges etc.

 

 

 

Well actually they do. It's in the Boaters' Handbook as others have said. It's also explained in the front of each of the ubiquitous Nicholson Waterways Guides (map books) which you'll constantly encounter.

 

But your point seems really to be that as a newcomer to the concept of boating, the information is not spoon-fed to you in a way you can't ignore, like it is at work. I'm intrigued. Where, or at what point in your entry to the subject of boating do you think it ought to have been put to you? Would you expect large signs at each lock, for example? Or something else?

But I agree with Dave's point. Most lock sinkings are caused by complacency. Because boats move slowly and people think boating ought to be 'relaxing', people new to it tend not to pay attention and think nothing much can go wrong. No amount of extra signage at locks or bits of paper pinned up inside hire boats will make all inexperienced people actually pay attention.

[Lmcgrath87]

Just been reading horror stories about boat sinkings in locks and I am flabbergasted to discover CRT provides no guidance or safety advice on operation of locks, bridges etc.

 

 

As a person relatively new to this world of narrow boating I am aware of a lack of prominence of info explaining or showing how to properly and safely take a boat through a lock.

 

I accept that I should go on a helmsmanship course but that will only partially cover whats required.

 

When I was working in big industry there were loads of safety videos on all sorts of eg fork lift trucks etc.

 

Surely this is something CRT should provide as it is their infrastructure that is employed and it would appear that most of these sinkings are often operator error. Not surprising if no proper specific guidance is provided.

 

Have I missed something somewhere or this a glaring big hole in CRT's info.

 

 

Big industries have to do the videos etc because otherwise they're the ones who have to pay out for their employee's lack of common sense.

 

There is an abundance of information available to someone who is willing to look.

 

 

https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/media/library/141.pdf

[Tam & Di]

sive instructions.

 

It's not rocket science. People rarely have sinking through ignorance, it's usually incompetence, bad training (or failure to pay attention to the training), complacency or carelessness.

 

Can you get training videos for that?

 

I would rather not have my experience spoilt by your need to be nannied through the learning process.

 

Booze appears to play a significant part in such events too. I can only echo Dave's comment though. How do you think people have got on when they first come to canal boating in the past 300 years or so? CRT already interfere too much in my opinion anyway.

[onionbargee]

 

Booze appears to play a significant part in such events too. I can only echo Dave's comment though. How do you think people have got on when they first come to canal boating in the past 300 years or so? CRT already interfere too much in my opinion anyway.

There were no significant hire or leisure boats, no ameteurs really for most of that time on canals. Nor weed hatches, the no 1 method of sinking nowadays.

[Paul C]

There were no significant hire or leisure boats, no ameteurs really for most of that time on canals. Nor weed hatches, the no 1 method of sinking nowadays.

 

Interesting side issue about the weed hatches. Back in the early days of the canals, was there anything significant likely to be wrapped around a large prop to affect it? I can think of the ropes used then, but there would have been no wiring, plastic bags, barbed wire, synthetic fibres, mattresses etc

 

PS Obviously back in the early days there was no weed hatch because a horse drawn boat didn't have a propellor.....

[Tam & Di]

There were no significant hire or leisure boats, no ameteurs really for most of that time on canals. Nor weed hatches, the no 1 method of sinking nowadays.

 

I overstated my case, but there have certainly been masses of non-professional newcomers over the past 40-50 years. If you follow the OP's thinking through it would mean health&safety gone absolutely so far off the scale that there would be no adventure left in boating - what has happened to personal responsibility? There is ample advice out there if people only got off their backside and looked, rather than demanding that CRT (in this instance) do everything for them.

[springy]

 

<snip> Most lock sinkings are caused by complacency. Because boats move slowly and people think boating ought to be 'relaxing', people new to it tend not to pay attention and think nothing much can go wrong. <snip>

 

I can't emphasise this aspect sufficiently, its quite easy to be distracted around locks, particularly if there are other people or plenty

of crew or even wildlife around, and it can only be a moments lack of attention, maybe when the steerer has also nipped in to brew

up for things to start to go wrong. Boating is relaxing, boats move slowly, but are usually in excess of 10 tons, often nearer 20, and

a typical narrow lock passage involves movement of 140 tons of water (C&RT figures) so the forces involved can be enormous.

 

springy

[b0atman]

With a name like Blaze away one would think the spirit of independence would be at the forefront of life .

[b0atman]

I dread elf n safety getting involved as they are crippling this country.

My worry at the moment is the wriggling in of the RYA this will eventually become a millstone round the neck for the boating industry .

The BSS is already going overboard with the cost increase in the last few years and yet still does not insist on CO detectors being fitted.

[BruceinSanity]

I can't emphasise this aspect sufficiently, its quite easy to be distracted around locks, particularly if there are other people or plenty

of crew or even wildlife around, and it can only be a moments lack of attention, maybe when the steerer has also nipped in to brew

up for things to start to go wrong. Boating is relaxing, boats move slowly, but are usually in excess of 10 tons, often nearer 20, and

a typical narrow lock passage involves movement of 140 tons of water (C&RT figures) so the forces involved can be enormous.

 

springy

 

It was certainly complacency that led to me cilling SA at Audlem the year before last, and the sight of her bows down and getting ready to slide under has cured me of it forever. In fact, I think I have mild PTSD from it and am now obsessional about keeping her as far down the lock as possible these days, usually by using the cabin shaft against any convenient notch in the lock side until I can see the cill emerging.

[b0atman]

I wonder if there is anything on utube showing the correct operation of a lock ?

[KenK]

As we were coming up through Hillmorton Top lock last summer a boat arrived heading down, pulled up close to the lock and a chap stepped off with a windlass, walked up to the lock which was full and opened the paddle. After about a minute or two he looked at me and said doesn't that open the gate? At that point I asked him if he had ever operated a lock before, no was the reply, first time on a canal, never hired, just bought the boat and this was his first lock.

Ten minutes or so of instruction later and he was safely through his first lock.

Yes, he was on his way to London.

 

Ken

[Arthur Marshall]

I think that last post is the key to all this - boaters are generally friendly folks and respond happily to a newcomer asking for either help or advice. It aint rocket science - locks are just big baths with a tap at one end and a drain at the other...

[zenataomm]

Interesting.

For three hundred years common sense and personal responsibility have sufficed regarding how we use canals, now we have a society that believes it's always somebody else's responsibility to keep us safe.

 

I know I'm a grumpy old man, but I say remove all the safety signs and let natural selection moderate the planet's over population.

 

 

As we were coming up through Hillmorton Top lock last summer a boat arrived heading down ..............

Ten minutes or so of instruction later and he was safely through his first lock.

Yes, he was on his way to London.

 

Ken

 

No he wasn't, not if he was going down at Hillmorton.

[nicknorman]

 

No he wasn't, not if he was going down at Hillmorton.

Perhaps he THOUGHT he was going to London but took a wrong turn at Braunston? Or maybe going via the scenic route! Edited June 18, 2015 by nicknorman

[Lmcgrath87]

I think that last post is the key to all this - boaters are generally friendly folks and respond happily to a newcomer asking for either help or advice. It aint rocket science - locks are just big baths with a tap at one end and a drain at the other...

 

The help we have been given by other boaters has been invaluable, but, we did do independent research too!

[Scholar Gypsy]

Just a plug for the video versions of the Boaters Handbook, which I think are quite nicely put together (and do point out that if you turn the wrong way at Gayton Junc you need to do another 34 locks as part of turning round!) ...

 

ETA I think I must be referring to an old BW product, here is the new C&RT video which I will watch this evening ...

 

https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/boating/navigating-the-waterways/boaters-handbook

Edited June 18, 2015 by Scholar Gypsy

[b0atman]

Interesting.

For three hundred years common sense and personal responsibility have sufficed regarding how we use canals, now we have a society that believes it's always somebody else's responsibility to keep us safe.

 

I know I'm a grumpy old man, but I say remove all the safety signs and let natural selection moderate the planet's over population.

 

 

 

No he wasn't, not if he was going down at Hillmorton.

maybe hadn't bought his nicholsons yet

[KenK]

Interesting.

For three hundred years common sense and personal responsibility have sufficed regarding how we use canals, now we have a society that believes it's always somebody else's responsibility to keep us safe.

 

I know I'm a grumpy old man, but I say remove all the safety signs and let natural selection moderate the planet's over population.

 

 

 

No he wasn't, not if he was going down at Hillmorton.

Oh yes he was, he didn't have a map either, he'd gone the wrong way but he had to go down to turn around.

 

Ken

[b0atman]

Absolutely brilliant would have given you a greenie but quota is only 2 per 24hrs.

[KenK]

Apparently he had bought the boat at Calcutt and turned left instead of right at Braunston, easily done.

 

Ken