thinking of a boat share?

[the barnacle]

After several yrs following threads on this forum i am thinking the best thing for me untill the children have grown up would be a boat share? problem is i guess everyone wants the school holiday weeks,

 

i was wondering who on here has a boat share and how do you get on with it - i have read the information by brokers but they would make it sound rosey wouldnt they - so just wanted the truth.

 

thanks you to anyone in advance that takes the time to reply,

[ditchcrawler]

We had one for 8 years and for most of that time it worked well. I couldn't justify a boat when working full time and I wanted more than hiring would give me. For the price of 2 weeks hire on a small cheapest in the range boat I was getting 3½ weeks of a much better quality boat.

ADD

I do think some of the prices being charged to manage a boat are excessive at £1000 per share, that equals 12 grand a year, you should be able to self manage for half that.

Edited May 24, 2015 by ditchcrawler

[Alan de Enfield]

We do not have a boat-share - we looked at it but decided it was not for us :-

 

1) We do not want to be tied to a couple of weeks (or multiples of, depending on share size) a year. We require flexibility.

 

2) The 'owners' seem to have meetings every year to decide where to base the boat for the following year - it could be Yorkshire one year and London the next, I don't want to take a day each way travelling to get to/ from the boat, before I even start the holiday.

 

3) The costs of share purchase and ongoing maintenance / licence / insurance / Management charges etc etc costs (depending on how you depreciate the capital) seemed to run at more than an equivalent 'hire, boat holiday.

 

We decided to buy a 'cheaper' well-used boat and built up from that - we have never made a loss on buying & selling boats (except a very expensive sea-going boat where we lost £40,000 in just over a year - and, an additional £20,000+ in rectification costs following a 'cowboy' survey, £60,000+ for a years boating was a bit much !!!)

Edited May 25, 2015 by Alan de Enfield

[the barnacle]

thank you for the replies - some good information and its appreciated - i also think £1000 is quite alot then any maintenance i think is charged ontop? it is the flexability of just popping to the boat that worrys me as i do like to tinker - perhaps a low end boat might be best for a few years - in an ideal world i would of liked to share it with someone however i could only see that leading to problems.

[churchward]

We had a boat share for a few years and it was a great introduction to boat ownership and getting more canal holidays for less money than hiring. We managed at least 4 weeks a year with a twelfth share and often more. The boat was very nice and comfortable. It was with a boat management company but there are several boat shares that work very well by self management by the owners.

 

That is the upside. The other side can be dealing with the other owners. You may not get on with them all and the majority may want something you do not want. Locating the boats home mooring was often an issue each year amongst our group. But it just takes compromise.

 

The running costs are higher (although shared amongst owners of course) as the boat is probably used more of the year than even a hire boat. If you are self management be prepared to muck in and do your bit.

 

All said and done I would say if you are not in a position right now where buying your own boat is worthwhile then a boat share is the next best thing if you want more than a week or two canal holiday each year.

[Southern Star]

I looked into a boat share but the more I looked at it, the more it seemed that I would just be inviting a bunch of control freaks into my life. So I bought my own boat and I reckon it costs me little more than a boat share would have done.

[MajorB]

I've been boating for around 50 years but owned a boat share for the last ten years, and it works for us. I guess there are close to 100 shared narrowboats remaining from the days of "Ownerships" plus others from the Challenger scheme, and also others, so it would seem to work for over a thousand shared owners.

 

In the last ten years I reckon we have spent just over a £1,000 per year for our share, in return for four or five weeks per year on the canal - I couldn't afford to hire a boat for that many weeks. If you like boating, then you won't mind using most of your holidays on the water. Boat shares can be purchased for as little as £1,500 to a maximum of around £10 k.

 

Yes, there are conditions, and each syndicate is different. When Ownerships went into liquidation we chose to become a private syndicate, and our syndicate members take responsibility for things like finance, boatyard liaison, operating the booking chart and secretarial stuff. We still meet up once a year, spending a day in the Midlands - the meeting doesn't have to be close to the boat. We move our boat every two or three years so we can explore different locations.

 

Those with children in school (or who work as teachers) can opt for a special share which gives them priority access to school holiday cruising and pay an additional premium for the privilege.

 

We chose shared ownership when working as we knew that we had limited holiday time and it made no sense to us to have a boat sitting in a Marina for 48 weeks per year. We have a great group of owners, and we don't always think the same but we all want to enjoy our boating and most of us are willing to compromise to achieve that.

[the barnacle]

once again thankyou for the replies - you have given me alot to think about - i gues if i sign up to a low cost share then the boat might not be the newest but i wont loose much if i decide its not working out,

 

if on a boat share you cant make your week and no one will swap can you let a family member use it?

[haggis]

once again thankyou for the replies - you have given me alot to think about - i gues if i sign up to a low cost share then the boat might not be the newest but i wont loose much if i decide its not working out,

 

if on a boat share you cant make your week and no one will swap can you let a family member use it?

It all depends on the agreement with the other owners. We shared for over 20 years and it started off that you could bid for any unused weeks and anyone in the family could use the boat. However, we changed the agreement when the same family was taking most of the extra weeks (which was no problem) but the boat was being used by their university attending sons and their mates. Although the boat was always left spotless, the engine took a hammering and invariably problems would arise after one of their trips. We changed the agreement so that the boat was not used during spare weeks and a named owner had to be on board when she was out. It solved the problem.

Sharing is a great way of getting several weeks boating for a fraction of the cost of hiring but it does have its downside in that you can't just decide to go boating on the spur of the moment. Self managed groups tend to be a lot cheaper to run than those which use a management company. It all depends if there are enough owners willing to take on the tasks. A group works best when they speak to one another and discuss where the middle ground is when there are differing opinions. In all our years sharing, we never needed to vote on anything!

 

haggis

Edited May 25, 2015 by haggis

[andyb116]

When we looked into buying a boat share, you could nominate 2 family members that could also use the boat on your allocated weeks, that was with BCBM. Didn't go down the share route in the end though.

[ditchcrawler]

When we looked into buying a boat share, you could nominate 2 family members that could also use the boat on your allocated weeks, that was with BCBM. Didn't go down the share route in the end though.

That is the problem with management companies, they start making rules about how the members can use their own boat. You must remember its your boat,shared between the members, not the management company and you are the ones paying the bills and the management company fees.

[cuthound]

I had two share boats, over a 22 year period until I retired and bought my own boat.

 

I would strongly recommend it provided you get on with people! There is always at least one other co-owner that you will not see eye to eye with, but on the other hand we are still firm friends with co-owners from both boats.

 

Most management companies charge £250 to £400 per 1\12th share per year. We typically paid £1000 to £1200 per annum all in.

 

When Ownerships went bust in 2010 we self managed for a year without problems (and saved £3000 in the process), but then reverted to being managed as some co-owners didn't want to help out.

 

We moved every couple of years, and as a result I have boated the vast majority of the system.

 

Depreciation increased directly in proportion with the increase in share boats. Lost about £500 in 10 years on the first boat and £3500 over 12 years on the second boat. Still a lot cheaper than hiring.

 

Most ex-Ownerships boats still use a form of the Ownerships share agreement, whereby 3 of the 12 owners can pay 25% more than the standard 1\12th (and the other 9 share the overpayment between them) in return for guaranteed school holidays.

 

As others have said, older secondhand shares start around £1500, whilst new boats sell shares for around £10000 per share.

 

Overall a good alternative to hiring, if you are prepared to have boat holidays every year.

[Richard T]

We were involved with a private syndicate for over ten years (its still going) we sold our shares when we deicided the time was right for us to own our own boat. It worked well over the years because members were prepared to help maintain it - this is done in various ways e.g one owner lives in a canalside house so provides winter moorings, other do the practical work while others provide food on work days!! Not having a base other than during winter months means that the boat travels the system according to members wishes.

When we set up the syndicate we used the model provided by Scruffy Fox - http://www.scruffyfox.org.uk/ on their web site. We saw it yesterday on the Soar and noticed a couple of shares for sale.

One major advantage for me was that over the years of working on Dasque I got to know an awful lot about how boats work and how to maintain them. This meant that when be bought our own we could make an informed decision on what we wanted and what sort of baot to look for. In effect we used a share boat as a stepping stone between hiring and full ownership. We are very glad that we did it.

[MajorB]

We just have ten owners on our 20 year old boat. We agree to enable family members to take out our boat, but you might need to check your insurance cover. Our syndicate agreement has this clause . "A syndicate member may allow members of their family to use the boat in their absence, provided that the person they nominate to take charge is not less than 21 years of age, and has proven experience in the handling of a narrowboat. In such circumstances it is the responsibility of the syndicate member to ensure that the insurance cover is not compromised by this arrangement, and that they realise they are personally responsible to cover the cost of any uninsured injury, loss to the boat or any third party involved."

[Mrs Trackman]

We were in the same boatshare as Richard T. For us, it was the best thing we ever did. We found hiring expensive. When we heard about buying an older, but sound, boat, initially between 5 couples, we were pleased to give it a go. We all learned a lot, made some good friends (including Richard T) and got to see lots of the system. We only left when we had time to be full time boaters but we still spend the occasional night on board dasque with other friends and sometimes meet up to boat with current sharers.

[Woodstock]

We looked at it and was also talking to a couple at the weekend who have a 3 week share- theirs is a flexible private syndicate- they get 3 weeks and if someone cant use their weeks, they are offered to other members.

 

The main reason we didnt pursue was that we wanted a boat we could go to on the spur of the moment- it's quite common for us to throw a few things into a bag on a Friday teatime and go- Our boat is moored about 30minutes drive away. We didn't have a massive budget so made a few compromises- ours is 24 years old and 37.5 foot and quite simple- no invertor, calorifier, but we manage with 12v when travelling and have a gas boiler and thus a shower etc.

 

We didn't have many must haves at the time - mainly a fixed bed, and a multifuel stove. We've had her 3 years now and learnt lots and we now have a clearer list of what we would like in our next boat- unfortunately the must haves are now greater in number but not excessive or unlikely to get- a full size fridge and cooker are on the list, as is a full size gas locker. We hope that when we come to sell her, we'll break even.

 

She is great for weekends and a week or 2 away and being smaller we often have a greater choice of mooring spots

[keble]

What I haven't seen mentioned here is how easy or otherwise is it to sell your share when the time comes?

I've seen a lot of shares for sale. I guess if you can't sell you have to go on paying the maintenance?

To me, as an owner for seven years, an advantage of shared ownership is that I can choose a base that's more central in the system.

[churchward]

What I haven't seen mentioned here is how easy or otherwise is it to sell your share when the time comes?

I've seen a lot of shares for sale. I guess if you can't sell you have to go on paying the maintenance?

To me, as an owner for seven years, an advantage of shared ownership is that I can choose a base that's more central in the system.

I don't know the market these days but when we came to sell our share and buy our own boat we found it quite easy to sell and for not much less than we paid for it. It worked out very well for us and made the years of shared ownership and the great holidays we had much less than if we had hired for all the weeks we went boating.

 

Just by observation of a very few examples I think it does seem a little more difficult these days but that has been the times we live in I guess. whilst you own the share you are still liable for the maintenance it's still partly your boat.

[David Mack]

As far as I can see just about every share boat operates in much the same way as a timeshare. You buy your share which entitles you to x weeks per year of exclusive use of the boat. Each time the boat is used is an out-and-back trip from the fixed base, and between trips the boat is cleaned and refuelled etc. by the boatyard. So you may never actually meet the fellow owners who boat the weeks before or after you (except at the annual meeting if there is one). Everything is either managed by a boat share organisation (for a healthy fee), or the owners do the management themselves, but engage boatyards to do all the actual maintenance work.

 

There is an alternative.

 

Buy a boat between a group of friends, and go boating whenever you like, and with whichever other of the owners want to go boating at the same time. Handovers from one owner to another can be done wherever the boat happens to be, and you clean and fuel the boat yourselves. If there is a gap between trips you can leave the boat on a short term mooring - paid for in a marina or tied up to the towpath for a couple of weeks. The boating can either be done as part of a 'grand plan' organised at the beginning of the year, or you can bimble along in an ad-hoc manner, keeping in touch with fellow owners by phone/email/social media and adjusting your plans as you go.

 

Simple maintenance jobs you can do yourselves - a group of owners can probably muster a range of skills between them. Other jobs (e.g. hull blacking) can be done by a group working together, while the more difficult stuff can still be contracted out to the professionals.

 

The advantages are that by not returning to base every week or fortnight the boat can roam further, you can see more of the system, boating is more sociable and the costs are lower. It works for us!

[steven wilkinson]

We have a 12th share in a managed boat. It suits us down to the ground. We both work and we live 150 miles from decent amounts of cruising. We don't have the time to justify the expense of a whole boat.

We pay for management as only one owner lives anywhere near the boat, and we also pay a premium for a special share that gives us first picks of most (but not all) school holiday weeks. The boat is moved regularly, and this, along with other decisions, is based upon a majority vote. This does mean some people will be disappointed with decisions, but that's just the way it is! You can't have everything!

 

Despite all the positive media comment, shares on our boat are not selling. Some have been for sale for over a year now!

[ditchcrawler]

 

 

There is an alternative.

 

Buy a boat between a group of friends, and go boating whenever you like, and with whichever other of the owners want to go boating at the same time. Handovers from one owner to another can be done wherever the boat happens to be, and you clean and fuel the boat yourselves. If there is a gap between trips you can leave the boat on a short term mooring - paid for in a marina or tied up to the towpath for a couple of weeks. The boating can either be done as part of a 'grand plan' organised at the beginning of the year, or you can bimble along in an ad-hoc manner, keeping in touch with fellow owners by phone/email/social media and adjusting your plans as you go.

 

Simple maintenance jobs you can do yourselves - a group of owners can probably muster a range of skills between them. Other jobs (e.g. hull blacking) can be done by a group working together, while the more difficult stuff can still be contracted out to the professionals.

 

The advantages are that by not returning to base every week or fortnight the boat can roam further, you can see more of the system, boating is more sociable and the costs are lower. It works for us!

That is how ours worked even when it was managed, As I said in an earlier post you have to remind them whos boat it is and who is paying. I have handed over in Gloucester Dock, Stratford on Avon, K&A sometimes I have picked it up from one owner and left it with the next without returning to base. We always left our car at the marina, so we would drive to the boat, where ever it was and the other owners would take our car back to the marina and then go home. The next owners met us somewhere and we would take their car to the marina and go home in ours.

[the barnacle]

 

 

Buy a boat between a group of friends, and go boating whenever you like, and with whichever other of the owners want to go boating at the same time. Handovers from one owner to another can be done wherever the boat happens to be, and you clean and fuel the boat yourselves. If there is a gap between trips you can leave the boat on a short term mooring - paid for in a marina or tied up to the towpath for a couple of weeks. The boating can either be done as part of a 'grand plan' organised at the beginning of the year, or you can bimble along in an ad-hoc manner, keeping in touch with fellow owners by phone/email/social media and adjusting your plans as you go.

 

Simple maintenance jobs you can do yourselves - a group of owners can probably muster a range of skills between them. Other jobs (e.g. hull blacking) can be done by a group working together, while the more difficult stuff can still be contracted out to the professionals.

 

The advantages are that by not returning to base every week or fortnight the boat can roam further, you can see more of the system, boating is more sociable and the costs are lower. It works for us!

 

Thank you all for taking the time to reply, the above would be great but its finding a group of friends thats the hard part, i guess it would be best in a marina - maybe i should work out the true costs, if it were just between 3 - 4 it would be perfect.

[churchward]

As far as I can see just about every share boat operates in much the same way as a timeshare. You buy your share which entitles you to x weeks per year of exclusive use of the boat. Each time the boat is used is an out-and-back trip from the fixed base, and between trips the boat is cleaned and refuelled etc. by the boatyard. So you may never actually meet the fellow owners who boat the weeks before or after you (except at the annual meeting if there is one). Everything is either managed by a boat share organisation (for a healthy fee), or the owners do the management themselves, but engage boatyards to do all the actual maintenance work.

There are of course as many ways of organising a boat share as there are boats but it does not have to be as you assume it to be.

 

Firstly and it is an important distinction is that a share is in the ownership of the boat so no different to your group of friends example just that the group do not necessarily know each other to start with. What happens to the boat is up to them even if they are using a management company. With a Timeshare you are buying a fixed set of weeks and no ownership (often) of the actual asset, the boat.

 

When we had a share our boat was with a management company but we decided where it was going to be moored or if owners would do a swap on the fly somewhere out on the system some owners did become friends and travelled together. So in my experience it was not as fixed as you suggest not to say that some share boats are more prescriptive though.

[LankyStreak]

Alan de Enfield put it very well in post #3 and I agree with him.

 

My missus and I looked long and hard at buying a share rather than our own boat. We both work full time so a share had much to commend it. In the end we decided to buy our own boat and haven't regretted it for a single moment. Our boat may not be as new and shiny as a share boat but it's ours! It's like our poor man's cottage in the country. We can keep all our stuff on it all the time. At all times there are old jeans and jumpers, toiletries, enough kitchen cupboard ingredients to make a meal, a few bottles of wine. If the weatherman says it's going to be a nice weekend we can go to the boat on the spur of the moment. We might not even move from our towpath mooring or we might cruise for a few hours and moor. If the forecast is for rain we might not go to the boat.

 

If I see a bit of paintwork that needs touching up I can do it, or not. If I want a shelf, or a new door lock, or another couple of sacks of coal for the fire I get them. I don't need to ask anyone because it's my boat. My point is, you can't compare share boats with your own. They're completely different and each suits different people. We can come home from work on any Friday night, then jump in the car and go to the boat stopping only to buy a pint of milk and a loaf of bread. Everything else we need is already there. Like with a hire boat you can't do that. Similarly if the weather forecast for your allotted share fortnight is rain you'll probably go out on the boat because you've paid for that time.

 

Think hard the barnacle about what you really want your boating to be like. Having my own boat gives me a warm feeling all the time, even when I'm at work. For me, a share in a boat wouldn't have done that. However I respect that for many people a share in a boat is perfect for them.

[churchward]

Alan de Enfield put it very well in post #3 and I agree with him.

 

My missus and I looked long and hard at buying a share rather than our own boat. We both work full time so a share had much to commend it. In the end we decided to buy our own boat and haven't regretted it for a single moment. Our boat may not be as new and shiny as a share boat but it's ours! It's like our poor man's cottage in the country. We can keep all our stuff on it all the time. At all times there are old jeans and jumpers, toiletries, enough kitchen cupboard ingredients to make a meal, a few bottles of wine. If the weatherman says it's going to be a nice weekend we can go to the boat on the spur of the moment. We might not even move from our towpath mooring or we might cruise for a few hours and moor. If the forecast is for rain we might not go to the boat.

 

If I see a bit of paintwork that needs touching up I can do it, or not. If I want a shelf, or a new door lock, or another couple of sacks of coal for the fire I get them. I don't need to ask anyone because it's my boat. My point is, you can't compare share boats with your own. They're completely different and each suits different people. We can come home from work on any Friday night, then jump in the car and go to the boat stopping only to buy a pint of milk and a loaf of bread. Everything else we need is already there. Like with a hire boat you can't do that. Similarly if the weather forecast for your allotted share fortnight is rain you'll probably go out on the boat because you've paid for that time.

 

Think hard the barnacle about what you really want your boating to be like. Having my own boat gives me a warm feeling all the time, even when I'm at work. For me, a share in a boat wouldn't have done that. However I respect that for many people a share in a boat is perfect for them.

Indeed that is the joy of owning your own boat outright and it is what drew us to take the plunge ourselves some years ago and have not regretted it but neither do I regret the years we had a boat share. They were both right for the circumstance of the time and what we wanted to spend. The share was also a great way to see how our enthusiasm for boating was sustainable without committing a big chunk of funds to our own boat and as it worked out very economic compared to hiring for 4-5 weeks per year.

 

But I do agree leaving stuff on our own boat rather than lug it back and forward is a big advantage and when I was working just popping to the boat for the weekend and pottering about was a great way to unwind and relax.