Walsh 2LW Fuel Filter - What Thread?

[mark99]

Please see two images of primary fuel filter bell housing/fuel casting. (2LW rebuild by Walsh).

 

 

 

 

The bell housing is held together by a tie stud which screws into the centre of the fuel casting - centre of fuel casting is reinforced by a boss - however the boss, as you may be able to see above, has sheared leaving not much female thread for the tie stud to screw into - but it does give enough for a triple b = "back to base bodge".

 

Here is the stud with the sheared boss still in situ (right hand side).

 

 

 

To get me back to base, I need a slightly longer stud** - so does anyone know the thread type? (I can order some studding with the right thread or even make it myself).

 

**If I screw the existing stud right into the remaining boss, I don't have enough thread poking through the bell housing for the left hand nut to screw onto.

 

To do a proper job I will probably need to order a new fuel casting, new nut and new stud - anyone know any suppliers?

 

Note to MtB - was up to my ears in diesel/late going home so did not have too much time to chat today!

Edited May 17, 2015 by mark99

[Athy]

Please see two images of primary fuel filter bell housing/fuel casting. (2LW rebuild by Walsh).

 

 

The bell housing is held together by a tie stud which screws into the centre of the fuel casting - centre of fuel casting is reinforced by a boss - however the boss, as you may be able to see above, has sheared leaving not much female thread for the tie stud to screw into - but it does give enough for a triple b = "back to base bodge".

 

Here is the stud with the sheared boss still in situ (right hand side).

 

 

To get me back to base, I need a slightly longer stud** - so does anyone know the thread type? (I can order some studding with the right thread or even make it myself).

 

**If I screw the existing stud right into the remaining boss, I don't have enough thread poking through the bell housing for the left hand nut to screw onto.

 

To do a proper job I will probably need to order a new fuel casting, new nut and new stud - anyone know any suppliers?

 

Note to MtB - was up to my ears in diesel/late going home so did not have too much time to chat today!

Bad luck. Can't help with the technical bits, but regarding spare parts, start with Walsh's who are official agents for Gardner Parts. I have found them fast and efficient. Their e-mail address is:

walshs@gardnerdiesel.co.uk

- a bit of a giveaway!

Edited May 17, 2015 by Athy

[LEO]

Mark,

 

PM sent = see th curse of WPWJob is affecting your paint in a similar place to mine.

 

Mike

[jonesthenuke]

The nut is 5/16" whit part number 153NU so is it the same thread at each end?

 

By the way this is my interpretation of the parts manual, it actually says 3/8 Wh by 5/16 Hex, but you would struggle to make that combination!

[mark99]

The nut is 5/16" whit part number 153NU so is it the same thread at each end?

 

By the way this is my interpretation of the parts manual, it actually says 3/8 Wh by 5/16 Hex, but you would struggle to make that combination!

 

Thanks JTN.

 

I've ordered two lots of studding 3/8 and 5/16 as I'm not sure. IIRC Whitworth used a confusing mixture of across flats and bar diameter for their spanners.

[MtB]

 

By the way this is my interpretation of the parts manual, it actually says 3/8 Wh by 5/16 Hex, but you would struggle to make that combination!

 

ISTR Whitworth nuts and bolts have spanners labelled according to the thread diameter, not the A/F size. Then confusingly, as materials improved, they stepped the actual A?F size down one, so the spanner that fits say, a new(ish) 7/16" Whitworth nut would be labelled 3/8" Whitworth.

 

Or am I thinking of BSF?

 

 

MtB

[Timleech]

 

ISTR Whitworth nuts and bolts have spanners labelled according to the thread diameter, not the A/F size. Then confusingly, as materials improved, they stepped the actual A?F size down one, so the spanner that fits say, a new(ish) 7/16" Whitworth nut would be labelled 3/8" Whitworth.

 

Or am I thinking of BSF?

 

 

MtB

 

There's Whitworth, as specced by Sir Charles, and then British Standard Whitworth. It's the BSW which uses the smaller hex sizes. Also British Standard Fine uses the same sizes as BSW.

Your spanner example above should be labelled 3/8"W, 7/16" BS.

 

Tim

Edited May 17, 2015 by Timleech

[MtB]

Note to MtB - was up to my ears in diesel/late going home so did not have too much time to chat today!

 

 

Totally understand mark, the last thing one wants when focusing on a breakdown repair is some bloke turning up and wanting to gas on for hours about stuff in general. Been there myself so many times!

 

We'll have a proper chat soon enough no doubt

 

MtB

 

There's Whitworth, as specced by Sir Charles, and then British Standard Whitworth. It's the BSW which uses the smaller hex sizes. Also British Standard Fine uses the same sizes as BSW.

Your spanner example above should be labelled 3/8"W, 7/16" BS.

 

Tim

 

 

Thanks Tim. I knew it was something like that!

[Timleech]

 

 

 

Thanks Tim. I knew it was something like that!

 

 

[MtB]

Sound of an avalanche of pennies dropping. I always took that to mean the spanner should also fit a BSF/BSC nut too, which it never did!

[mark99]

So Tim, what studding do I need? 3/8 or 5/16? (academic I sus'pose as I've ordered both).

 

Gardner book states 3/8 Wh by 5/16 Hex for the NUT (silent about the stud).

 

(I think it's 3/8" both ends as the tpi is approx 16 and the diameter of rod is 3/8" - but since I lost me calipers I'm relying on a manky tape measure.

[Timleech]

So Tim, what studding do I need? 3/8 or 5/16? (academic I sus'pose as I've ordered both).

 

Gardner book states 3/8 Wh by 5/16 Hex for the NUT (silent about the stud).

 

(I think it's 3/8" both ends as the tpi is approx 16 and the diameter of rod is 3/8" - but since I lost me calipers I'm relying on a manky tape measure.

 

I suppose the book means 3/8" Whit thread, and 5/16" spanner size (ie 3/8" BS size) for the nut.

Older ones had a big wing nut.

 

Tim

Edited May 17, 2015 by Timleech

[Roadsteam]

Edit.

What Tim leach says as his reply appeared while i composed my reply

Edited May 17, 2015 by Roadsteam

[mark99]

Edit.

What Tim leach says as his reply appeared while i composed my reply

 

 

Thanks chaps. Will report back re the bodge.

 

Contacted Wash Gardner Parts too and await a reply to the price for a new unit.

[Timleech]

 

 

Thanks chaps. Will report back re the bodge.

 

Contacted Wash Gardner Parts too and await a reply to the price for a new unit.

 

Secondhand ones seem to go for silly money on ebay!

[MtB]

It's a 'known problem' presumably then?

[jonesthenuke]

Going back to the original post, how did you break this? I had trouble getting my filter to seal with the "cardboard" joint rings that come with the filters. I have changed to using an O-rings woth a Dowty seal under the nut and now the filter is leak free with minimal torque on the nut.

[mark99]

Used a dowty to seal the drain (the normal issue). However changed fuel filter last weekend (cardboard seal) and ended up with small leak from that seal which I only noticed today. Nipped up bolt on the stud <gently> and the whole lot collapsed due to boss shearing.

 

Where did you get O ring in lieu of card?

[jonesthenuke]

Ebay, use a viton or nitrile to ensure long term resistance to the fuel..

 

see previous post below:-

 

Posted 02 June 2014 - 04:16 PM

Problem solved. Fitted an O ring instead of the paper/cardboard(?) gasket supplied with the filter and now it's no problem at all.

I used 69 mm by 3.5 mm cross section nitrile ring.

 

Gardner Enthusiast seemed to think there had been no problem with the seals they have supplied.

 

Chris

The nut is 5/16" whit part number 153NU so is it the same thread at each end?

 

By the way this is my interpretation of the parts manual, it actually says 3/8 Wh by 5/16 Hex, but you would struggle to make that combination!

Just looked at the parts list again, it is probably a 3/8 W thread as the sealing washer is shown as 13/32 I.D., so too large for 5/16 stud.

[by'eck]

Used a dowty to seal the drain (the normal issue). However changed fuel filter last weekend (cardboard seal) and ended up with small leak from that seal which I only noticed today. Nipped up bolt on the stud <gently> and the whole lot collapsed due to boss shearing.

 

Where did you get O ring in lieu of card?

 

Dowty washers are not really suitable for low pressure applications. Their steel base offers almost no crush sealing unlike softer metal copper ones for example. They require a high pressure against the vulcanised rubber insert to work hence their use in hydraulic fittings.

[Alan Saunders]

I suppose the book means 3/8" Whit thread, and 5/16" spanner size (ie 3/8" BS size) for the nut.

Older ones had a big wing nut.

 

Tim

My 1949 build, 1951 supply 3LW has the a big (bronze?) wing nut - I guess they, Gardner, did not expect any more than hand pressure to effect a seal let alone the chance of fracturing a fitting.

 

I was educated with Whitworth engineering standards and simultaneously with scientific ISO/metric standards - 50 years on I need you to remind me.

 

Alan

[LEO]

Ebay, use a viton or nitrile to ensure long term resistance to the fuel..

 

see previous post below:-

 

Posted 02 June 2014 - 04:16 PM

Problem solved. Fitted an O ring instead of the paper/cardboard(?) gasket supplied with the filter and now it's no problem at all.

I used 69 mm by 3.5 mm cross section nitrile ring.

 

Gardner Enthusiast seemed to think there had been no problem with the seals they have supplied.

 

Chris

Just looked at the parts list again, it is probably a 3/8 W thread as the sealing washer is shown as 13/32 I.D., so too large for 5/16 stud.

 

Thanks for the info, I might try to get one of those washers, as the cardboard ones supplier from GE do seem to weep fuel.

 

Note you supplied the serial numbers for the spare part - I purchased one of those part list books and found it useful.

 

Interested in the 'brass nut' modification, was the washer modified at the same time?.

 

I guess in 'days of yore' oil and diesel leaks were tolerated - many old buses powered by Gardners ended up in Malta - it was interesting trying to walk across the main bus park in the terminal in Valletta without getting shoes covered in a tar/oil/fuel oil combination.

 

L.

[jonesthenuke]

 

Dowty washers are not really suitable for low pressure applications. Their steel base offers almost no crush sealing unlike softer metal copper ones for example. They require a high pressure against the vulcanised rubber insert to work hence their use in hydraulic fittings.

That's an interesting view. The rubber is moulded to be thicker than the steel backing ring. There is no requirement to "crush" the steel ring, and that is no how they are designed to work. Consequently they work fine at low pressure.

[mark99]

Ok ta.

 

Ordered the studding, 2 sizes just in case, suitable nuts, box of various imperial copper washers, box various dowty washers, 1/2 doz nitrile "O" rings (69*3.5mm) and new filter.

 

Mmm, may have to get a set of Whitorth taps just in case the thread needs clearing then clean out thoroughly any residue.

 

Excellent responses thanks all.

Edited May 18, 2015 by mark99

[frangar]

I spotted this in this months edition of "Stationary Engine" mag.....no fighting over it and play nicely!

 

 

Cheers

 

Gareth