Narrowboats at sea.

[Scholar Gypsy]

It isn't just the weather that could cause it to get wet. There will be other boats out there some of which will be making a lot of wash.

 

I am expecting it to be calmer on the Wash than it was on the Thames tideway at the weekend (force 4, plus lots of boats, one of whom had water in the fuel tank). If it isn't then I won't go!

 

By the way I have been working on some charts (courtesy of Google Earth) for the Denver to Kings Lynn section and will upload them shortly. Hope to see you in Boston on 23rd May!

[Naughty Cal]

Should do. We are due to go out 8.15-8.30am on the 24th May so we will be in Boston overnight on the 23rd.

 

Hope the forecast improves a little for you and the wind swings more to the west. That bit of North could make it interesting for you!

[gazza]

Should do. We are due to go out 8.15-8.30am on the 24th May so we will be in Boston overnight on the 23rd.

 

Hope the forecast improves a little for you and the wind swings more to the west. That bit of North could make it interesting for you!

Are you heading for Lynn for the start of your trip onto the Great Ouse?

[Naughty Cal]

Are you heading for Lynn for the start of your trip onto the Great Ouse?

No. Wells next the Sea this time.

 

Great Ouse is July.

[gazza]

No. Wells next the Sea this time.

 

Great Ouse is July.

 

Ah, I see.

 

We are nipping over to the Ouse for spring bank holiday, will be Denver/Downham way until the Tuesday, no sense in heading to Ely on the Bank Holiday Monday.

 

Enjoy your trip to Wells, fingers crossed the weather is ok that weekend.

[Naughty Cal]

 

Ah, I see.

 

We are nipping over to the Ouse for spring bank holiday, will be Denver/Downham way until the Tuesday, no sense in heading to Ely on the Bank Holiday Monday.

 

Enjoy your trip to Wells, fingers crossed the weather is ok that weekend.

We have got the week off, so if its a bit iffy over the weekend we will just head across during the week.

 

We have gone the same time of year every year for the last five years and have always managed to get there for at least a few days.

[Tam & Di]

Having sailed yachts at sea, and now narrowboats inland, I know I would not have the bottle to take a flat bottomed boat out even in coastal waters.

 

The flat bottom is not a problem. We owned/operated three little coastal ships which all had flat bottoms, as do enormous things like QE2. With something like a narrow boat you need to seal all apertures thoroughly (including things that might be thought of as exits normally like basin outlets); you need to be certain that your fuel is in pristine condition so you don't get a load of sludge thrown up from the bottom of the tanks when waves hit you; you need to put all loose stuff in cupboards and tie the doors so they cannot fall open. You need to make careful weather observations and predictions, and have all sensible life saving equipment and radios. Chances are you will then go out and could have left a full glass of wine on a table without spilling a drop.

 

Tam

[SamKingfisher]

I remember Chris Coburn saying in a magazine that narrowboats are surprisingly seaworthy until not under way, when they roll like hell.

[cariad]

This is how i boarded up the well for my channel crossing from Ramsgate to Dunkirk. Firstly i fixed double sided tape to the saloon door frame, then screwed theboard to the frame. The boards across the well were bolted to the hull. Below the boards i filled the well with as much material so it couldn't take too much water through the scuppers. then used gaffer tape to cover over the edges. All the heavy stuff was placed on the floor of the saloon to give the boat more stability.

[Peter X]

Never mind the sea, when walking across Putney Bridge at lunchtime today I noticed (in between trying to stop my umbrella turning inside out) that there were waves coming up the Thames, perhaps 6" to 12" high with whitecaps on top. I'm not sure how uncomfortable that would have been if there'd been a narrowboat going with or against it.

[FadeToScarlet]

Never mind the sea, when walking across Putney Bridge at lunchtime today I noticed (in between trying to stop my umbrella turning inside out) that there were waves coming up the Thames, perhaps 6" to 12" high with whitecaps on top. I'm not sure how uncomfortable that would have been if there'd been a narrowboat going with or against it.

12" waves, I find, barely move a narrowboat- there's enough momentum to just plough through them. I get a bit of ventilation sometimes, but that's it.

 

I've been on friends' narrowboat out at Gravesend, and up to Limehouse. The boat was pretty stable in waves up to about 18", anything bigger was enough to start a gentle pitching. The big wash from a passing small oil tanker, and higher up from the clippers, was enough to make more serious pitching. It wasn't until we got to Limehouse and had to stop and turn that the water got properly choppy, and then we started rolling as well which was unpleasant.

 

Edit to add: mike's got some good videos, like this one:

Edited May 14, 2015 by FadeToScarlet

[blackrose]

Never mind the sea, when walking across Putney Bridge at lunchtime today I noticed (in between trying to stop my umbrella turning inside out) that there were waves coming up the Thames, perhaps 6" to 12" high with whitecaps on top. I'm not sure how uncomfortable that would have been if there'd been a narrowboat going with or against it.

Waves of half a metre certainly got my widebeam pitching on the Thames through London. It might be uncomfortable for those onboard but that's only because most of us are wimps who have never experienced waves. The boats are usually fine as long as they're watertight with enough freeboard, and once the occupants get used to it they'll be fine too.

This is how i boarded up the well for my channel crossing from Ramsgate to Dunkirk. Firstly i fixed double sided tape to the saloon door frame, then screwed theboard to the frame. The boards across the well were bolted to the hull. Below the boards i filled the well with as much material so it couldn't take too much water through the scuppers. then used gaffer tape to cover over the edges. All the heavy stuff was placed on the floor of the saloon to give the boat more stability.

Were there any other modifications? How high are your engine room vents or don't you have them?

[Neil TNC]

NB Earnest's exterior stern engine room vents were blocked up for salty travels (and still are). Alternative vents were created within the semi-trad cockpit.

Another salty mod of note was the dry exhaust "periscope". As Earnest's exhaust silencer is fitted to a 11/2" female pipe fitting welded into the hull, it was easy to screw the extension in to the outside.

NB Frogmoore II, who we did some of our salty travels with also had a similarly fitted periscope exhaust.

 

[GUMPY]

That looks like Blackwater mud to me.....

[Neil TNC]

That looks like Blackwater mud to me.....

Yes, as worshiped by Ian Clarke. On this occasion it nearly swallowed him up.

[DHutch]

 

It is presumably feasible to weld a keel to the base plate to make it more stable at sea. I wonder if this has been done.

A small keel like that of I-Frances might work well, but I would be more concerned about free-board, ballast movement, and the like. As said, a flat bottom is not the end of the world, and as long as you are inherently stable (which you bloody should be anyway) and can keep the water out well enough, all else is optional....

 

I make Glasson-Whitehaven about 55miles, so 10-12 hours. Perhaps split into two days with an overnight somewhere? I cant say I fancy it really, and the main issue would be having no where to go if the weather did suddenly close in. That said, people have done more odd things!

 

The 30miles Dover-Calais is more appealing, but I must say, still not very. That said, if someone was going and looking for crew....

 

 

...my channel crossing from Ramsgate to Dunkirk...

Sounds like a fair trip.

 

Do you have any more information?

 

 

Daniel

[rasputin]

The boat at Whitehaven is a widebeam not a narrowboat.

 

That google earth picture is at least 6 years old, my boat is there, and I sold that to a bloke in Canada 6 years ago.

 

We also had Timothy Spall in his widebeam in Whitehaven a few years ago

Edited May 15, 2015 by rasputin

[Alan de Enfield]

We used to moor our cruiser (31 foot, twin Volvo 200hp engines, seaworthy and all safety gear) in Holyhead. The run up to the Isle of Man was 60 miles and was a regular Friday evening trip (3 hours). One weekend the weather 'blew-up' and we had to stay a couple of extra days until we got a 'weather-window'. The Coastguard gave us a good forecast and off we set.

 

Literally exactly half way back the wind picked up and we had 'wind over tide' - it very quickly became extremely uncomfortable with waves of probably 15+ feet breaking over the fly-bridge. Dropped the speed down and crept back in the last 20 miles.

 

Brown trousers.

 

The sea demands the utmost respect, not only is it unpredictable you cannot 'beat' it - absolutely no way I would take our NB anywhere near the sea. (The tidal Trent has enough problems).

 

We have now bought a new Sea-Boat (35 foot, x 14 foot Trawler Hull, Twin 7.5 litre Ford engines) so when the feeling grabs us we can go out to sea, when we want to do a 'ditch' we can take the NB out.

 

The right boat for the conditions make boating a pleasure.

[John V]

in spades !!!

[cariad]

A small keel like that of I-Frances might work well, but I would be more concerned about free-board, ballast movement, and the like. As said, a flat bottom is not the end of the world, and as long as you are inherently stable (which you bloody should be anyway) and can keep the water out well enough, all else is optional....

 

I make Glasson-Whitehaven about 55miles, so 10-12 hours. Perhaps split into two days with an overnight somewhere? I cant say I fancy it really, and the main issue would be having no where to go if the weather did suddenly close in. That said, people have done more odd things!

 

The 30miles Dover-Calais is more appealing, but I must say, still not very. That said, if someone was going and looking for crew....

 

 

Sounds like a fair trip.

 

Do you have any more information?

 

 

Daniel

Yes it was a fair trip which started from Limehouse at midday and reaching Ramsgate at 02.30 a.m. the following day. We were accompanied with a very capable Pilot as per insurance requirements. When in Ramsgate at £49.70 for 1 night we went to a local pub to watch the British Lions beat Australia to win the test series.

A quick return to the boat to catch up on our sleep was disturbed by the Pilot to ask if we were up to leaving at midnight as the weather and tide conditions were suitable. The shadow boat turned up as arranged and a spare crew man to assist me with the journey as i was not prepared to have my wife share the steering at night time. Fortunately the crew man was very capable and we arrived at Dunkirk 10 hours later in glorious sunshine and without incident. The crew man was safely transferred onto the shadow boat and we said our good byes before entering the lock in Dunkirk.

This adventure was planned over a few years with a lot of thought and planning and lots of patience waiting for the right weather conditions, but the original plan to go from Dover to Calais had to be abandoned due to the lock in Calais that would take us onto the canal system was out of order and no date was scheduled for repairs. This trip was going to be in company with another couple on a dutch barge, but they managed to get a window to cross earlier so we eventually met up with them in Burgues some weeks later. There was no problem with the Insurance company except for complying with having a Pilot from Limehouse to Ramsgate and a shadow boat from Ramsgate to Dunkirk and a premium of £150.00.

[bigcol]

There's no way I'd be leaving the bow doors open on a tidal crossing.

 

If you can't shut the doors then I'd forget about that board. Shut the doors and duct tape the vents and the gaps 18" above the deck.

 

On the Bristol channel I had a ladder fixed under the roof overhang so that in the event I needed to drop the anchor I could go across the roof to the bow rather than use the gunwale.

 

Looking at that photo, the Dutch barge replica? Outside boat, His wheel house is very low? If standing room that be great for us. Our wheel house is overly high, we were thinking if it can be lowered, which may work out that we won't need lowering it all the time for the GU.

Be nice to know who in the UK nearer to MK who would undertake the project. Ps nowhere near as low as the one in the photo

Col

Edited May 18, 2015 by bigcol

[Laurence Hogg]

I remember Chris Coburn saying in a magazine that narrowboats are surprisingly seaworthy until not under way, when they roll like hell.

 

This is true. I did some 2000 miles at sea with Chris but "Progress" was built to go "Off piste" and has been developed and modified over the years.

Mods include two independent fuel supply systems, all vents watertight, all doors watertight, bolt on bow deck and forward bulkhead cover to name a few. The boat is 50% in the water so well ballasted and is very well equipped with vhf, decca, gps and a self inflating 4 man liferaft. We took weeks planning and waiting for the correct weather and the journeys are memories to last a lifetime. Would I do it again? Yes.