CMers versus CRT

[mayalld]

 

not true All the VMs on the Bridgewater in Castlefield in Manchester have been hogged for months and months by the same boaters. I don't get upset about it..I just moor somewhere else...away from the crowd...where I can sit in piece on a towpath...surely we didn't all get into boating to sit on VMs?

 

What an odd attitude to take.

 

Essentially, because YOU don't want to moor on a VM anyway, you don't care that those who do (for whatever reason) may find that they cannot get their fair share of VMs because others take more than their share.

[MtB]

to clarify...

 

1. I don't support idiots who flout the rules and stay in one place...

2. I do agree CRT should deal with them.

3. I think CRT should have dealt with them in a different way, than in a way which makes me feel like I'm guilty of something, when I leave my marina mooring.

 

HAVE A NICE DAY

 

 

Ok Dean, you keep saying this. What is this different way you have in mind, in detail please?

[Phil Ambrose]

(shakes head) Aw come on chsps why all the arguments, it's easy. We all agree to accept the T&Cs when we take a licence, whatever those T&Cs are. We have agreed so are then in no position legally to flout the conditions within those terms laid down. If we do flout those conditions we should not be surprised if action is taken against us.

None of us would fail to pay in a pay and display car park because we know what would happen, you might occasionally get away with it but sooner or later you will get caught and suffer the consequences, so enforcement of any rules is to be expected so if we break the rules we should not be surprised if we get jumped on.

Phil

Edited May 1, 2015 by Phil Ambrose

[Ricco1]

 

Was about to post the same myself.

 

 

Macc & Peak Forest northern enough. It has been mentioned a time or two on here this past few week. Happen not CMers but Continuous Shufflers*

 

*Waiting for approval as the 139th association of diverse boaters.

 

There are indeed quite a few boaters moving around on these canals. The Peak Forest has few places to moor due to its shallow nature but a correspondingly small number of boats, as it's a dead end. I once went past Furness Vale, the most popular mooring spot and it was full. Just once, in the best part of 2 years. It's interesting to note that these moorings will be lost sometime in the future, commercial development of the marina opposite.

 

The Macc is also shallow in parts but there are plenty of mooring opportunities. Poynton is busy but I've never seen it full. The mill at Bollington is popular and very occasionally full. Elsewhere there's loads of room for everyone. Where I am now, a lovely spot, it's deep at the side, there's room for around 20 boats. I can see one in the distance.

 

Really, there's no problem here.

[Tam & Di]

edit to remove post that somehow repeated itself 2 minutes later

Edited May 1, 2015 by Tam & Di

[Dave_P]

 

cmon...how many boaters do they put out. ....the number of actual boats moving on the Rochdale can be counted on one hand through Oct till May...and...without much water...if they did all start moving about, the ones who want to navigate that canal, would complain they can't because there's a water shortage.

 

Hebden Bridge has a small hippy community...some "green" shops etc, and I'd wager without those boaters, those shops would close. I travelled through Hebden bridge, and there was plenty of space.....?

 

 

 

and again.....why can't CRT just send a man in a van....once a week...ticket them...and walk away.......

ok, I'm off for the day....

 

to clarify...

 

1. I don't support idiots who flout the rules and stay in one place...

2. I do agree CRT should deal with them.

3. I think CRT should have dealt with them in a different way, than in a way which makes me feel like I'm guilty of something, when I leave my marina mooring.

 

HAVE A NICE DAY

What you've done there is start an entirely different point. You said that there was no problem with CM'ers in the North. I pointed out one spot where there is a problem, there are others. Who have they put out? Well I don't have the figures obviously (and neither do you) but one person they've put out is me. Which is helpful on this forum since this forum is all about people's experience and opinions is it not?

 

I offered no view on what should be done (if anything), I was just pointing out that your assertion is incorrect.

 

As for this comment "and again.....why can't CRT just send a man in a van....once a week...ticket them...and walk away.......", to the best of my knowledge that what they do anyway (except, it's rarely as often as once a week). So I'm not sure what your point even is now.

 

Finally, this:

 

"3. I think CRT should have dealt with them in a different way, than in a way which makes me feel like I'm guilty of something, when I leave my marina mooring."

 

Why on earth are you feeling guilty unless you're either overthinking all this, or you have something to feel guilty about. I leave my mooring often (I'm currently not there) and I've never felt guilty. I often feel happy, excited etc. Not guilty!!!

Edited May 1, 2015 by Dave_P

[Tam & Di]

I don't want to be watched. I am legal. If I lived in a house, I wouldn't have people walking my street to see if I actually lived there...peering from behind the bushes....if I drove a car to the nearest Tesco, I wouldn't have to worry that I hadn't driven to the Tesco on the far side of town rather than the closer one..or lose my car licence...

 

But that is not a valid analogy - there is no requirement to "move your house regularly". However there are regulations about cars if they are on the road, and you might well meet a traffic warden if you were parked in the wrong place or for too long. Or you might find someone checking your car tax to see if it is valid. Big brother is watching you, wherever you are.

[MtB]

 

There are indeed quite a few boaters moving around on these canals. The Peak Forest has few places to moor due to its shallow nature but a correspondingly small number of boats, as it's a dead end. I once went past Furness Vale, the most popular mooring spot and it was full. Just once, in the best part of 2 years. It's interesting to note that these moorings will be lost sometime in the future, commercial development of the marina opposite.

 

The Macc is also shallow in parts but there are plenty of mooring opportunities. Poynton is busy but I've never seen it full. The mill at Bollington is popular and very occasionally full. Elsewhere there's loads of room for everyone. Where I am now, a lovely spot, it's deep at the side, there's room for around 20 boats. I can see one in the distance.

 

Really, there's no problem here.

 

That's nice for you then.

 

And if/when the current trend continues and your 'lovely spot' is found by a community of CMers, will you still say there is no problem?

Or will you be saying CRT should not have let it happen?

[TheBiscuits]

 

The inconsiderate people who find it acceptable to use lock landings or even that last bollard to moor their boats to make it extremely difficult for those of us (me) trying to gain confidence & experience at the tiller.

 

These people cause me way more grief than any other type of boater we've encountered on our travels.

Oh I think you could cheerfully practice your very close in boat handling against the side of their boat.

 

Learn how to hit them with the front, side and rear of your boat, and you will soon figure out how NOT to hit something you want to avoid.

[MtB]

Yes I'd be inclined to navigate as though they weren't there, and if you bumped them shout and apologise saying how difficult it is to navigate with them parked there.

 

You could also perhaps claim to be 'not very good at this being foreign', citing the fact you bumped them as evidence

[TheBiscuits]

Yes I'd be inclined to navigate as though they weren't there, and if you bumped them shout and apologise saying how difficult it is to navigate with them parked there.

 

You could also perhaps claim to be 'not very good at this being foreign', citing the fact you bumped them as evidence

Coming over here taking our blacking?

 

I don't know if you are a francophone but there is no better language to pretend you can't understand in than French. The Gallic shrug helps too.

[John V]

Oh I think you could cheerfully practice your very close in boat handling against the side of their boat.

 

Learn how to hit them with the front, side and rear of your boat, and you will soon figure out how NOT to hit something you want to avoid.

 

nice idea but unfortunately have a yoghurt pot nowadays........

[Graham Davis]

 

What an odd attitude to take.

 

Essentially, because YOU don't want to moor on a VM anyway, you don't care that those who do (for whatever reason) may find that they cannot get their fair share of VMs because others take more than their share.

 

Quite, but Dean has just told me there aren't any problems in his area!!

Dean, which is it?

[dor]

 

 

I don't want to be watched. I am legal. If I lived in a house, I wouldn't have people walking my street to see if I actually lived there...peering from behind the bushes....if I drove a car to the nearest Tesco, I wouldn't have to worry that I hadn't driven to the Tesco on the far side of town rather than the closer one..or lose my car licence...

 

it's just my own very personal experience of things...and I fully accept that others have different views. I do agree CRT should enforce...but they should do so quietly...without bothering me....

 

But they do Dean! Try claiming your house is empty to avoid paying Council Tax, or claiming only you live there to get the single occupancy discount.

[MtB]

 

But they do Dean! Try claiming your house is empty to avoid paying Council Tax, or claiming only you live there to get the single occupancy discount.

 

That only works for six months, and even then its a 'forgiveness' not a legal right.

 

I'm not so clear on the single person occupancy discount though. It seems terribly unfair that I pay 100% council tax on an empty house I might own, yet if I choose to live there I only pay 75%.

 

 

 

(Edit to add a crucial missing word.)

Edited May 1, 2015 by Mike the Boilerman

[Rod a mod from Tod]

 

There are indeed quite a few boaters moving around on these canals. The Peak Forest has few places to moor due to its shallow nature but a correspondingly small number of boats, as it's a dead end. I once went past Furness Vale, the most popular mooring spot and it was full. Just once, in the best part of 2 years. It's interesting to note that these moorings will be lost sometime in the future, commercial development of the marina opposite.

 

The Macc is also shallow in parts but there are plenty of mooring opportunities. Poynton is busy but I've never seen it full. The mill at Bollington is popular and very occasionally full. Elsewhere there's loads of room for everyone. Where I am now, a lovely spot, it's deep at the side, there's room for around 20 boats. I can see one in the distance.

 

Really, there's no problem here.

 

How do you define a problem. CRT obviously see it as one otherwise you would not be in the pickle you find yourself. There is a nucleolus of 20-30 boats, possibly more, that rarely venture south of Kerridge, if at all. Having spoken to them in the past they don't see it as a problem either. The CRT are now doing what BW should have done years ago and it ain't no good bleating about it. We have all been aware of what is required of us for years. Or at least we should. Why anyone wants to buy a boat and stick to same the puddle defeats me.

Edited May 1, 2015 by Rod a mod from Tod

[MtB]

 

How do you define a problem. CRT obviously see it as one otherwise you would not be in the pickle you find yourself. There is a nucleolus of 20-30 boats, possibly more, that rarely venture south of Kerridge, if at all. Having spoken to them in the past they don't see it as a problem either. The CRT are now doing what BW should have done years ago and it ain't no good bleating about it. We have all been aware of what is required of us for years. Or at least we should. Why anyone wants to buy a boat and stick to same puddle defeats me.

 

Now you're just not trying here, are you. They work locally, have kids in skool, registered with the local GP, regular hospital appointments. Have you not seen these listed before as reasons a boater might want to stay in the same place?

 

Having said that, most of the thousands of liveaboards rent a mooring when the want to stay in the same place. The piss takers are doing it primarily to avoid this cost of renting a mooring.

[Timleech]

 

That only works for six months, and even then its a 'forgiveness' not a legal right.

 

I'm not so clear on the single person occupancy discount though. It seems terribly unfair that I pay 100% council tax on an empty house I might own, yet if I choose to live there I only pay 75%.

 

 

 

It may seem unfair, but the 100% council tax on an empty house is there, apart from ensuring income for the council, to discourage people from leaving houses empty.

There is a housing shortage, after all.

 

Tim

[DaveP]

Then you haven't been very far! Try going to the other end of the Rochdale. Plenty of cm'ers around Hebden bridge.

 

Are you sure you're not counting the somewhat alternative looks of a few of the Calderdale Boat Club members?

[MtB]

 

 

It may seem unfair, but the 100% council tax on an empty house is there, apart from ensuring income for the council, to discourage people from leaving houses empty.

There is a housing shortage, after all.

 

Tim

 

Au contraire.

 

The number of houses is about right. There are too many people!

[Timleech]

 

Au contraire.

 

The number of houses is about right. There are too many people!

 

There are too many people in the world, that much I agree with.

 

Tim

[DeanS]

LOL....ok I am beat

I was just playing devils advocate on a topic which has been done to death already.

 

I accept that CMers are a problem.

but...I don't accept they are a problem everywhere.

I accept they are a problem at certain hotspots, and need to be dealt with.

 

however.

 

CRT have now issued new T&Cs which directly affect me personally. So I therefore feel somewhat justified in feeling more unhappy now about things than I did beforehand. My point was that the CMers in hotspot areas should have been dealt with by CRT directly...in a focused attack. The "problem" should never have been something which affected me, as a legal, boater with a home mooring.

 

As it stands right now...I personally have almost no where to cruise if I were to try and follow the new T&Cs to the letter. (my situation is a peculiar one). My point is that the CMer issue should not be a reason which causes legal boaters to reconsider if they want to remain on the waterways. It is fair for CRT to have enforcement on every towpath, data loggers, counting boats, outsourcing your details to private companies who might work on commission for the number of "hits" they get (I think this is where it will lead).....but at the same time, I think that will lead to legal boaters deciding that boating is no longer the "off the radar" lifestyle it used to be.

I'm happy to accept that none of what I may say is grounded in reality...but it's a discussion ....who knows where things will lead....;-)

[DeanS]

In Manchester, on CRT waters, there is a huge CMer problem, as shown by the photo taken on this bank holiday weekend.

 

[mayalld]

LOL....ok I am beat

I was just playing devils advocate on a topic which has been done to death already.

 

I accept that CMers are a problem.

but...I don't accept they are a problem everywhere.

I accept they are a problem at certain hotspots, and need to be dealt with.

 

however.

 

CRT have now issued new T&Cs which directly affect me personally. So I therefore feel somewhat justified in feeling more unhappy now about things than I did beforehand. My point was that the CMers in hotspot areas should have been dealt with by CRT directly...in a focused attack. The "problem" should never have been something which affected me, as a legal, boater with a home mooring.

 

And yet, we have another thread from another boater who feels agrieved that CRT are targetting enforcement.

 

Ther have to be rules, and those rules have to be reasonably understandable and clear to boaters.

 

As soon as you start having different rules for different areas, you would complain that you couldn't be expected to know the rules for every area.

 

It is interesting that you blame CRT for this. Why are you not blaming those who decided that they would play silly buggers? It is their silly gaming the system that leads to stricter enforcement.

[MtB]

In Manchester, on CRT waters, there is a huge CMer problem, as shown by the photo taken on this bank holiday weekend.

 

 

 

Surely the result of CRT's effective enforcement...

 

Edited May 1, 2015 by Mike the Boilerman