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CMers versus CRT


b0atman

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Dean you are obviously in an area where the inconsiderate CMers are not hogging the visitor moorings where you wish to be .however one day they will all be full and then your tune will change . I have great admiration for the CMer who moors with consideration for others and leaves no mess on the towpath good luck in their enjoyment of boating . But these others are ruining it for all.

 

not true :) All the VMs on the Bridgewater in Castlefield in Manchester have been hogged for months and months by the same boaters. I don't get upset about it..I just moor somewhere else...away from the crowd...where I can sit in piece on a towpath...surely we didn't all get into boating to sit on VMs?

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Not forgetting that increasing numbers of pee takers cost money in increased enforcement which in turn will eventually feed through into increased licence costs....

 

Then the pips will squeak.

 

Yes you are right. There has always been a number of cmers but they were always to be found way out in the sticks no where near water points or vms etc but the " New age " lol cmers are more prattish and are now found in hotspots and more annoyingly on lock landings and water points etc.

 

Tim

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All the VMs on the Bridgewater in Castlefield in Manchester have been hogged for months and months by the same boaters. I don't get upset about it..I just moor somewhere else...away from the crowd...where I can sit in piece on a towpath...surely we didn't all get into boating to sit on VMs?

Was nearly like that when I passed last year, we had booked a trip to the theatre and need to be in the centre of Manchester, fortunately someone allows us to breast up for the night as there are no other mooring places nearby. We did look over the otherside as well it was also full of semi permanent moorers and we got there at midday in order to find a slot.

 

As mentioned earlier some boaters go somewhere to spend money in the local area and if they cannot moor then that area loses out. Eventually the local business/pubs will either kick up a stink and get something done or they will close down thus destroying why people want to moor there.

 

No problem if everyone moves as expected after their permitted time as there would always be someone due to move today or tommorrow, thus vacating a space for the next transient visitor to come and spend some money. .

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1. I can only talk from my own personal experience as a CC-er as well as a home mooring boater. CMers have never caused me any grief.

2. I think the hassle was caused by some boaters complaining about CMers, ....not the CMers themselves.

3. I think the recent pressure from CRT in the form of more "we are watching you" publicity....has affected my joy of boating more..

4. Number 3, and not number 1, is a greater risk to CRT losing my money one day.

 

Surely Dean you are contradicting yourself here. It is the problem caused by the piss-takers that has made C&RT start taking a much closer look at the situation. This, according to your No. 3, is what is making you think that your enjoyment of the waterways is diminishing, to the point where you think you may have to leave.

 

So, despite your protestations that CMers have never caused you any grief they are in fact the direct cause of your decreased joy in boating.

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So, despite your protestations that CMers have never caused you any grief they are in fact the direct cause of your decreased joy in boating.

 

Up north, there is no such thing as a CMer issue. Therefore, there is no need for CRT to implement new T&Cs which change the way I "feel" about the waterways. Simples ;-) Goodnight all.

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The facts are that you are completely right. The pee takers are getting more and more and everywhere there was a pratt moored on the waterpoint I used last week next to the three other pratts moored overnite on the lock approach. Yes you are right that its pricks like this that are making CART simply enforce what has not been enforced before.

 

Tim

 

Proper ccer and no tickets in 26 years.

 

 

 

Tim - you've hit the nail on the head as far as I'm concerned.

 

The inconsiderate people who find it acceptable to use lock landings or even that last bollard to moor their boats to make it extremely difficult for those of us (me) trying to gain confidence & experience at the tiller.

 

These people cause me way more grief than any other type of boater we've encountered on our travels.

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The facts are that you are completely right. The pee takers are getting more and more and everywhere there was a pratt moored on the waterpoint I used last week next to the three other pratts moored overnite on the lock approach. Yes you are right that its pricks like this that are making CART simply enforce what has not been enforced before.

 

Tim

 

Proper ccer and no tickets in 26 years.

 

Dean what is the problem with CART monitoring your or mine or any one elses boating? I find it unobtrusive and as I will never get a ticket or threats of section 8 etc why would I be worried they are doing their job?

 

Tim

Virtual greenie Tim

 

Peter

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Up north, there is no such thing as a CMer issue. Therefore, there is no need for CRT to implement new T&Cs which change the way I "feel" about the waterways. Simples ;-) Goodnight all.

 

But post #31 says there is!

Are they wrong about what they found in Manchester?

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Tim - you've hit the nail on the head as far as I'm concerned.

 

The inconsiderate people who find it acceptable to use lock landings or even that last bollard to moor their boats to make it extremely difficult for those of us (me) trying to gain confidence & experience at the tiller.

 

These people cause me way more grief than any other type of boater we've encountered on our travels.

Time for me to fess up then.

 

I once moored the Dog House with the bow line tied to the first bollard of the lock landing east of town lock in Thorne. The stern line was on a mooring pin in the bank.

 

Surprisingly there was no where else I could find to moor. It was quiet, another boat (belonging to another forum member as it happens) easily managed to access the landing.

 

Did that make me an inconsiderate boater or bad person, I don't really think so. I. Could just have easily been a couple of feet further back and the angle of approach for the incoming boat would have been exactly the same, why wasn't I you ask? Because there was no where to drive a pin into at the pointy end.

 

Boats will often be very close to lock landings, it's annoying sometimes but it's something they are allowed to do.

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But post #31 says there is!

Are they wrong about what they found in Manchester?

[/quote

Ten years regular couple times a year have visited and never once not got a mooring in castkefield and only once have I moored out of the arms next to hostel hotel , so I would say they are wrong or mistaken, blind .

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But post #31 says there is!

Are they wrong about what they found in Manchester?

 

Castlefield is not CRT waters.

There is no CMer issue on CRT waters up north that I am aware of...or have experienced....but may be wrong:)

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Castlefield is not CRT waters.

There is no CMer issue on CRT waters up north that I am aware of...or have experienced....but may be wrong:)

Then you haven't been very far! Try going to the other end of the Rochdale. Plenty of cm'ers around Hebden bridge.

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The last few miles of the South Oxford became a linear social housing site. Likewise the western end of the K&A became almost bandit country. We were cruising along going towards Bath one day, when in amongst the continuous line of boats there was a gap. It was an unrestricted site, we needed to stop for a couple of hours, (one of our crew required to undergo their routine medication) We were met with hostility and remarks such as "You can't moor there it is "xxxxx's mooring and she has gone to fill her water tank". I replied the we would only be a couple of hours, and claimed that anyone could moor there technically, it was not a reserved mooring. The next thing that happened was that we were virtually trapped on our boat as a couple of large (and seemingly aggressive dogs) were tied to the mooring pins of the boats either side of us. We didn't need to get off the boat, but when we came to leave I had to call to the dog owners/handlers to control their dogs in order to allow me to untie the lines. It is this aggressive element and those who I mentioned above, who have destroyed the friendly atmosphere and ambience of the canals, and finally pushed CaRT into action. These CM's (as it now seem fashionable to call them) should be made to comply with the requirements of their licences or be removed from the canals. Incidentally I reported the incident and I got the impression that the staff were frightened to address the issue and to some extent, I don't blame them.

 

an excellent post....

 

however....

 

surely all it would take is for 1 enforcement office to walk down those specific canals, ticketing all the CMers, ...job done.

Why does huge enforcement have to be rolled out to my neck of the woods, where there is no CMer issue at all...and even worse...new T&Cs which affect me directly even if I am paying for a home mooring.

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I noticed what the OP said about them waiting for CRT to move them on. This is what happens in Brum and it's just insanity. It's as if they actually want CRT to spend as much money on enforcement as possible. It's also the reason that licenses aren't being renewed - if a boat is costing CRT more than their license fee is worth...

 

an excellent post....

 

however....

 

surely all it would take is for 1 enforcement office to walk down those specific canals, ticketing all the CMers, ...job done.

Why does huge enforcement have to be rolled out to my neck of the woods, where there is no CMer issue at all...and even worse...new T&Cs which affect me directly even if I am paying for a home mooring.

If there's no CMer issues then what has this huge enforcement entailed?

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Then you haven't been very far! Try going to the other end of the Rochdale. Plenty of cm'ers around Hebden bridge.

 

cmon...how many boaters do they put out. ....the number of actual boats moving on the Rochdale can be counted on one hand through Oct till May...and...without much water...if they did all start moving about, the ones who want to navigate that canal, would complain they can't because there's a water shortage.

 

Hebden Bridge has a small hippy community...some "green" shops etc, and I'd wager without those boaters, those shops would close. I travelled through Hebden bridge, and there was plenty of space.....?

 

 

 

and again.....why can't CRT just send a man in a van....once a week...ticket them...and walk away.......

ok, I'm off for the day....

 

to clarify...

 

1. I don't support idiots who flout the rules and stay in one place...

2. I do agree CRT should deal with them.

3. I think CRT should have dealt with them in a different way, than in a way which makes me feel like I'm guilty of something, when I leave my marina mooring.

 

HAVE A NICE DAY :)

Edited by DeanS
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Then you haven't been very far! Try going to the other end of the Rochdale. Plenty of cm'ers around Hebden bridge.

 

Was about to post the same myself.

 

 

Castlefield is not CRT waters.

There is no CMer issue on CRT waters up north that I am aware of...or have experienced....but may be wrong:)

 

Macc & Peak Forest northern enough. It has been mentioned a time or two on here this past few week. Happen not CMers but Continuous Shufflers*

 

*Waiting for approval as the 139th association of diverse boaters.

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A few observations from an ex boater...

 

The selfish, arrogant, anti-social, continuous morons moorers, who seem to think that they can moor for as long as they like, wherever they like, ignoring the clearly marked restrictions for the benefit of all, are a bane on the inland waterways. They contribute little or nothing and expect everything in return as a right.

 

There will be many others who like me, remember the days when it was madness to buy a boat if you did not first secure a mooring for it. BW tolerated unauthorised liveaboards because they knew that there were insufficient alocations for living on boats. But that was in the days when for the most part, boaters observed the limit for staying on a particular mooring. Then came the expansion in marina building. This provided a lot of capacity for moorings, but because there appeared to be such a demand prices went through the roof. This in turn prompted some to look for alternatives. One of these was a continuous cruising licence, which was and is fine. Most of the annual maintenance was carried out during the winter, so this restricted the CCer's movements somewhat as for some (and it could be quite a while) became trapped between stoppages. BW took the pragmatic view that no action was to be taken against these people because they were bound in by circumstances outwith their control.

 

A smart cookie or two spotted an opportunity to circumvent the need to comply with the terms of the licence to which they had agreed when they took out a CC licence and started to moor in spots well away from honeypot sites. In honesty they did not affect the vast majority of other boaters, so were not a (big) problem. However it led to situations where they settled on 14 day moorings then later 7 day moorings because, (partly because of the Defra cuts) no action was taken to enforce the rules.

 

This has led to a situation which is untenable and finally CaRT are beginning to enforce the rules. Now what could have happened is that the flouters might have admitted that they had been lucky to get away with it for so long and moved on. But no, they decided to fight for something that was not theirs in the first place, so now CaRT are imposing even more draconian powers including that of entering your boat without needing permission whether you are present or not. All because more and more people seeing some get away with thinking that they are more important than others, jump on the bandwagon. Hence the out of control situation we have now.

 

The last few miles of the South Oxford became a linear social housing site. Likewise the western end of the K&A became almost bandit country. We were cruising along going towards Bath one day, when in amongst the continuous line of boats there was a gap. It was an unrestricted site, we needed to stop for a couple of hours, (one of our crew required to undergo their routine medication) We were met with hostility and remarks such as "You can't moor there it is "xxxxx's mooring and she has gone to fill her water tank". I replied the we would only be a couple of hours, and claimed that anyone could moor there technically, it was not a reserved mooring. The next thing that happened was that we were virtually trapped on our boat as a couple of large (and seemingly aggressive dogs) were tied to the mooring pins of the boats either side of us. We didn't need to get off the boat, but when we came to leave I had to call to the dog owners/handlers to control their dogs in order to allow me to untie the lines. It is this aggressive element and those who I mentioned above, who have destroyed the friendly atmosphere and ambience of the canals, and finally pushed CaRT into action. These CM's (as it now seem fashionable to call them) should be made to comply with the requirements of their licences or be removed from the canals. Incidentally I reported the incident and I got the impression that the staff were frightened to address the issue and to some extent, I don't blame them.

 

So ladies and gentlemen, you know where to set the blame when CaRT appear to be getting more vigilant. I liken it to the days when a gypsy family would set up on a grass verge somewhere, with maybe a couple of caravans, and be gone in a few days. They were not a problem, as the groups got bigger, they became more of a problem that sooner or later had to be addressed. We have now reached that situation around the more popular sites on the waterways.

 

I miss my boat, but frankly I wouldn't go back now.

 

Eloquently put Tony. The problem we have now is many people have joined the waterways in the last few years and seem to think its the norm.

 

Tim

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