Flower of Gloster - to be released on DVD in Sept. 2015

[Del 'boy' Trotter]

And a final thought. Was Bill Grundy, the producer, a canal enthusiast? The whole thing appears to be a vehicle to show off the canals.

 

First off I actually watched all 13 episodes of this series when it was first shown on the telly back in late 1967 50 years ago!!.

 

As for Bill Grundy a Granada television man being associated with this series and is actually heard on bits of the commentary is a real oddity and almost surreal knowing what happened to him about a decade later?. Bill Grundy for those that aren't familiar with him was a television 'anchor man' for an early evening local news & magazine programme in the London area on ITV back in the mid-1970s who is also very well known by old punk rock fan's when he infamously interviewed the Sex Pistols live on his show in 1976 and then provoked Johnny Rotten and his band of 'musicians' into a bout of swearing before being taken smartly off the air!!. That incident signalled the arrival of 'punk rock' to Britain and Bill never worked again on British television and died in the 1993.

Edited February 2, 2017 by Flower of Gloster

[David Schweizer]

It won't have been as cheap as a BBC production, it was filmed in colour and would have been a full union production. Very surprised the fee promised to you was not paid. But the budget might have been very tight by their standards.

 

The problem seemed to arise because the agreement was an oral one with the Director (or Prodicer) wned with no paperwork. When we quried the non payment, no one at the BBC claimed any knowledge of them even using our boat, let alone any agreement to pay us. There is a lesson there.

[Laurie Booth]

 

The problem seemed to arise because the agreement was an oral one with the Director (or Prodicer) wned with no paperwork. When we quried the non payment, no one at the BBC claimed any knowledge of them even using our boat, let alone any agreement to pay us. There is a lesson there.

I thought it was a Granada ITV production, if a BBC production then I'm not surprised at no payment.

[Del 'boy' Trotter]

I thought it was a Granada ITV production, if a BBC production then I'm not surprised at no payment.

 

It was a Granada television production and not a BBC television production Bill Grundy the series producer worked for Granada television.

 

See my post about Bill Grundy 3 posts above.

Edited February 2, 2017 by Flower of Gloster

[alan_fincher]

When we quried the non payment, no one at the BBC claimed any knowledge of them even using our boat

Definitely not a BBC production. Some of what I watched yesterday had even left in the "end of part 1"and "part 2" captions, (though not the commercials themselves!).

 

As said it shows in the DVD as Grenada.

[Del 'boy' Trotter]

The Flower of Gloster television programme that was originally broadcast during late 1967 in the London and greater London area was shown on ITV (A Granada television production) and from vague memory it was broadcast at 5:15pm on a weekday afternoon although I can't recall exactly which weekday afternoon it was now?. (Well it was 50 years ago!!).

Edited February 2, 2017 by Flower of Gloster

[Laurie Booth]

I'm not surprised that David Schweizer didn't get paid by the BBC why would they know anything about his work for Granada TV

[alan_fincher]

Ref the butty emerging from Blisworth tunnel - who's who in this picture ?

 

I'm intrigued who quite a few of the crews of the Willow Wren CTS pairs must be.

 

I would have expected to probably spot a number of those who are regularly pictured in the various books or magazines, but so far have been pretty unsuccessful.

 

The suggestion, I think, that the lady on this butty, (Bideford), may be one of the two Wain sisters, Ann and Vera, who married the two ward brothers Ted and Ken respectively.

 

However, whilst no expert, I don't think this is either Ann Ward or Vera Ward, and I don't think the daughters here look much like published pictures of the ward daughters. The steeer of the motor is most definitely not Ted Ward or Ken Ward.

 

About a year or so later Bideford was paired with our Flamingo under the captaincy of Ronnie and Liz Green, but here I think it is towed by Badsey, and it is, I'm sure, not the Greens.

 

Who we really need to interest in this thread (and DVD) is "archie57", who I am fairly confident would identify many, if not all the WWCTS crews.

 

We are not helped by the continuity errors.

The pair they pass as they are breaking down when they go through Blisworth Tunnel, initially shows the bow of the motor as Curlew, but by the time they pass the engine room it has become Widgeon! The butty Beverley is one that Flamingo would operate with a year or two later, but again I do not recognise either steerer. Widgeon and Beverley were operated by "Uncle Ted Ward" slightly after this, (Ted and Ken Wards uncle, I think), could it be he?

 

Incidentally, as the continuity error get worse and worse, it is actually Braunston Tunnel as they go in, but Blisworth as they finally emerge!

 

Also, I had no idea Woburn Abbey was so close to the GU!

[David Schweizer]

 

If that is from Networkonair, be aware that the shipping date they show is not actually the date it is genuinely shipped, but the date they instruct someone to ship it on their behalf, I think. My email notification shipped on Friday 27th, but was still not with me this morning. When I rang them today to enquire, they said no, it was actually only sent out by Royal Mail on Monday 30th......

 

Surprise, surprise - it fell through my letter box about 30 minutes later!

 

I must be getting preferential treatment, it arrived this morning, only 36 hours after i ordered it!

Edited February 2, 2017 by David Schweizer

[archie57]

How about Sidney McDonald with the "Badsey" and "Bideford"?

[alan_fincher]

How about Sidney McDonald with the "Badsey" and "Bideford"?

I need to look again, but that would make this his wife and children, I guess.

 

Linky

 

Does that seem right? (I don't know!)

 

Sidney McDonald is one that confuses me, because in the pictures of him towards the very end of carrying he looks a lot older than in some taken not that many years previously.

I must be getting preferential treatment, it arrived this morning, only 36 hours after i ordered it!

Did it include (belatedly) the agreed fee for the use of Pisces?

 

I did skim through the Stoke Bruerne footage, but didn't notice either Pisces or a young you - do I need to look again?

 

As another aside......

 

After they agree to tow butty "Barbara from Gas Street to Braunston, it mysteriously turns into quite a different boat approaching Braunston. In fact IIRC, it changes into a motor?

Edited February 2, 2017 by alan_fincher

[alan_fincher]

Has anyone reached the episode based at Stoke Bruerne yet? I am, apparently, featured twice in that episode, as was our boat, standing in for Flower of Gloster, which had broken down

 

I'm not getting it David.

 

Unless it is a case of "blink and you miss it", I'm not seeing any sign of Pisces in the Stoke Bruerne footage, (or indeed you, but then I don't know what you looked like in 1967).

 

I think I'm persuaded that Badsey and Bideford may well be in the charge Sidney McDonald and family as "archie" suggests.

 

I think the pair passed in the tunnel, Widgeon with Curlew's bow (!) and Beverley, are probably Ted Ward Senior, uncle to Ted and Ken, but I could equally be wrong.

 

Sadly "Flamingo" has not been spotted, though several of its buttys have.

 

One oddity is that the boat carrying the coffin is painted up as Nuneaton in BW blue and yellow, and seems to be in good external condition, but that pictures of Nuneaton dumped on the Wendover Arm only about 4 years later show a tired modified version of Willow Wren livery that looks like it has been around far longer than since when these programs were filmed. I know the various liveries carried by Nuneaton have been a past topic of discussion, and wonder how its smart BW blue in 1967 fits in with other observations?

[David Schweizer]

 

I'm not getting it David.

 

Unless it is a case of "blink and you miss it", I'm not seeing any sign of Pisces in the Stoke Bruerne footage, (or indeed you, but then I don't know what you looked like in 1967).

 

Until I get a chance to view it, I am unable to offer any comments. What I do know is that they spent a lot of time repeatedly pulling Pisces towards the lock, but whether they actually captured the bow in any of the shots I do not know. It would have looked incongruous to an aware observer, because both the bow profile, and decoration on Pisces was significantly different to that of The Flower of Gloster.

 

When I have viewed the film, I may confirm if I am in any shots, I did look very different in those days.As I have said in the past, i never saw the series when it was broadcast as we did not have a TV, so I am going on what people at work told me. I do know that they filmed me, but whether it was actually included in either the original or the DVD version i do not yet know,

 

Edited to add:- Given the continuity issues you have outlined, the scene where they used Pisces may well not be portrayed as being Stoke Bruerne in the film, but somewhere completely different.

 

Edited:- to correct the location

Edited February 3, 2017 by David Schweizer

[pete harrison]

One oddity is that the boat carrying the coffin is painted up as Nuneaton in BW blue and yellow, and seems to be in good external condition, but that pictures of Nuneaton dumped on the Wendover Arm only about 4 years later show a tired modified version of Willow Wren livery that looks like it has been around far longer than since when these programs were filmed. I know the various liveries carried by Nuneaton have been a past topic of discussion, and wonder how its smart BW blue in 1967 fits in with other observations?

I am 99% certain that NUNEATON was in the plain blue (with a multi coloured counter) 'British Waterways' livery prior to entering service with Willow Wren C.T.S. Ltd., but once re-hired to the boaters it was up to them how they were painted

[David Schweizer]

 

I must be getting preferential treatment, it arrived this morning, only 36 hours after i ordered it!

 

I unsealed the package last night and despite the sturdy cardboard wrapping, the cover fell to bits, I have not had a chance to veiw the dvd's yet (too much that Jan wanted to watch on the TV last night) so I do not know if the discs are OK. I may have to be writing another one of my (complaining) letters.

Edited February 3, 2017 by David Schweizer

[alan_fincher]

I am 99% certain that NUNEATON was in the plain blue (with a multi coloured counter) 'British Waterways' livery prior to entering service with Willow Wren C.T.S. Ltd., but once re-hired to the boaters it was up to them how they were painted

 

In this film it is smartly painted in blue with the full yellow banding to cabin-sides, but lettered only with the boat name.

 

Several of the other boats are so treated - Bideford for example, also looking quite smart, and I think Beverley as well.

 

Scruffiest by a mile so far is Belfast, on which a lady is about to give birth. For reasons unexplained, ascending Braunston locks, her husband is supposed to be several miles ahead with the butty, leaving her to work alone with the motor. You might have thought they would know both would fit in the same lock.

 

Until I get a chance to view it, I am unable to offer any comments. What I do know is that they spent a lot of time repeatedly pulling Pisces towards the lock, but whether they actually captured the bow in any of the shots I do not know. It would have looked incongruous to an aware observer, because both the bow profile, and decoration on Pisces was significantly different to that of The Flower of Gloster.

 

When I have viewed the film, I may confirm if I am in any shots, I did look very different in those days.As I have said in the past, i never saw the series when it was broadcast as we did not have a TV, so I am going on what people at work told me. I do know that they filmed me, but whether it was actually included in either the original or the DVD version i do not yet know,

 

Edited to add:- Given the continuity issues you have outlined, the scene where they used Pisces may well not be portrayed as being Braunston in the film, but somewhere completely d

 

I wasn't looking at the Braunston scenes, as you initially said Stoke Bruerne. Where were you actually when they used Pisces, then?

 

I'll give up looking for a youthful David S, then, but as far as I can see, once they move away from the tunnel mouth at Stoke Bruerne, the Flower of Gloster, (be it the real one or Pisces), never again appears at Stoke. They are seen pulling a boat in to tie it up, but didn't see any sign of a boat, only them pulling on a rope. Perhaps I've missed some other scene?

[Derek R.]

Call me a hypocrite, but at £12 I couldn't say no. Ordered Wednesday - arrived this-morning. Unlike Davids - in perfect condition. Only watched the first episode so far.

[David Schweizer]

 

In this film it is smartly painted in blue with the full yellow banding to cabin-sides, but lettered only with the boat name.

 

Several of the other boats are so treated - Bideford for example, also looking quite smart, and I think Beverley as well.

 

Scruffiest by a mile so far is Belfast, on which a lady is about to give birth. For reasons unexplained, ascending Braunston locks, her husband is supposed to be several miles ahead with the butty, leaving her to work alone with the motor. You might have thought they would know both would fit in the same lock.

 

I wasn't looking at the Braunston scenes, as you initially said Stoke Bruerne. Where were you actually when they used Pisces, then?

 

I'll give up looking for a youthful David S, then, but as far as I can see, once they move away from the tunnel mouth at Stoke Bruerne, the Flower of Gloster, (be it the real one or Pisces), never again appears at Stoke. They are seen pulling a boat in to tie it up, but didn't see any sign of a boat, only them pulling on a rope. Perhaps I've missed some other scene?

 

Oops! A typo error. We were at Stoke Bruerne when they used Pisces for the pulling scene. You won't see Flower of Gloster at Stoke at all, as it had broken down and was being repaired somewhere further north. that is why they "borrowed" Pisces. The Film crew filmed all morning, and then left Stoke some time in the afternoon.

 

I seem to remember the camera being positioned where they could have got a shot of Pisces' bow, but as already explained the bows of the two boats were so different, I suspect that even the continuity people noticed the difference, and cut any shots showing the bows.

[alan_fincher]

 

You won't see Flower of Gloster at Stoke at all, as it had broken down and was being repaired somewhere further north. that is why they "borrowed" Pisces.

 

Not strictly true, as the footage supposed to be at the Stoke Bruerne end of Blisworth Tunnel almost certainly is. This definitely features the correct boat.

[David Schweizer]

I have just watched the first three episodes, and it is much better than i thought it would be. The acting is actually quite good for a 1960's chidren's series, and it is interesting how they manage to incorporate an eductational aspect using a mixture of actors and genuine canal based people. I was particularly pleased to see a very young Tony Lewerey, and a (not so young!) Charlie Atkins. I am sure the boatman filling the kettle on Snipe was also a "real" boatman, but I didn't recognise him.

Edited February 3, 2017 by David Schweizer

[David Schweizer]

 

Not strictly true, as the footage supposed to be at the Stoke Bruerne end of Blisworth Tunnel almost certainly is. This definitely features the correct boat.

 

They must have come back later to film that. She certainly did not appear over the two days we were there.

[Victor Vectis]

Any idea of the locations used?

 

The aqueduct and boatlift couldn't be anywhere else, of course, but the boatyard they start from, 'Trevor' is it Barbridge?

 

And the drydock? The fancy canopy makes me think it's that one by the stop lock at Dutton.

[Del 'boy' Trotter]

I am sure the boatman filling the kettle on Snipe was also a "real" boatman, but I didn't recognise him.

 

That particular boatman re-appears towards the end of the series after an incident involving the Flower of Gloster which I found quite interesting in how it was dealt with which included that boatman's experienced advice. I won't post a spoiler and say anything but I will be interested to hear your opinions on it?.

[archie57]

Any idea of the locations used?

 

The aqueduct and boatlift couldn't be anywhere else, of course, but the boatyard they start from, 'Trevor' is it Barbridge?

 

And the drydock? The fancy canopy makes me think it's that one by the stop lock at Dutton.

Dutton dock is used, also the yard at Preston Brook - long since gone. Nobody has yet mentioned Peter Froud who appears!

[Flyboy]

Dutton dock is used, also the yard at Preston Brook - long since gone. Nobody has yet mentioned Peter Froud who appears!

Confirmed by the presence of the 'Inland Waterways Holiday Cruises' hire boats that operated out of Preston Brook.

 

I think some of the 'Travelling Man' series was also filmed here.

Edited February 3, 2017 by Flyboy