Boat crime & vandalism

[tomandsophie]

Hello everyone,

 

Sorry to start a bit of a gloomy subject but....

 

I've been recently reading lots of canal books during my recouperation from mumps and have been surprised and a little worried by the number of times vandalism has cropped up. Usually this is a passing reference to kids, bottles and bridges but the book i'm reading now has added other more serious crimes to the list. (Don't know if anyone's read the series by Iris Bryce written in the 70's -80's about her and her husbands life travelling the waterways of England for ten years; first one's called 'Canals are my home'.)

 

I'm not looking for a list of bad things that have happened to people (that would proably just scare me!), but an idea of how much these little (or not so little) incidents are part of living on a boat. And also what are the best ways to prevent becoming a target (i've already picked up on the digital camera & mobile phone tip). Is an alarm an option or totally over-the-top.

 

Thanks for your advice

 

Sophie (will be Kennet and Avon)

 

I'm only an innocent sheltered country girl you see!

[David Schweizer]

I've heard all the stories but have to admit that I have experienced very few incidents, none of which were particularly threatening to either myself or my family. I have had stone thrown once (but they ran away when i jumped off the boat at bridge) I had a pole stolen but found it later in a hedge, and I have had the window smashed and food stolen once, but that was the notious Finch on tghe Oxford - he never comes on the K&A and never breaksinto occupied boats.

 

There have been a few occassions of excessive use of foul language at locks by groups of lads but I usually find that a bit of banter with them improves the situation almst immediately - they are only seeking attention so I try and make it positive rather than negative - it has worked up to now. The most abusive and threatening behavior has come from fishermen and other boaters but they are usually all noise and steam rather than any real threat. I usually ignore them or become extreemly polirte and pleasant, that usually confuses them.

 

I live very close to the K&A between Bath and Bradford on Avon, and can assure you that it should be fine, there are lots of people about on the towpath most of the time so there is very little opportunity for anyone to misbehave without being seen by someone.

[bottle]

Hi

 

Do not worry, if you add up all the reported incidents and compare them to the number of boats on the system it would be a small minority that have been "Attacked". I know it can be unnerving at the time but most incidents are minor. Verbal abuse, I put down to their ignorance and foul language to me is only words and they will not hurt, for them it may be their "normal languge" just listen to some youngsters in the local High streeet.

Most of all just enjoy life on the cut you will meet more good than bad.

[ChrisPy]

The most abusive and threatening behavior has come from fishermen and other boaters but they are usually all noise and steam rather than any real threat.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

hey what's wrong with steamboaters? I'm a member of the SBA and I think we might all get a bit miffed.

[gringogordo]

I have been burgled once (in a year and a half) but I had very flimsy hinges and a fairly obvious single main door with an external padlock so to some extent I was asking for it while being moored in an urban area. I know a couple of other people who were burgled in that area (Reading) as well but all were very minor and didn't include additional vandalism. I also heard a couple of stories of people having their ropes cut or untied (one while the guy was in the shower) but if your worried about that you can always chain yourself to something (tree/hoop...) as they all seem to be unpremeditated. I never bothered myself being far too lazy ...

 

That being said I tend to moor in a bit of space and often leave the boat for a weekend or more and have had less problems than a lot of people I know who live in flats so ... Also all problems I have heard of have been on the towpath in fairly central urban areas, I've not known anyone have any trouble in a marina (although judging from this forum this may give a false impression...)

 

Cheers,

 

Ben.

[Alastair]

I've had very little trouble. A few times drunks have tried to climb onto my boat (when moored in the centre of town, near pubs and clubs). A steady stare while one hand on boathook deterred them. One drunk peed on roof at night - I just ignored it, and sluiced the decks off the next morning.

 

My boat is very solid, the doors are stronger than most house doors, with very good locks. Windows ditto. Narrowboats tend to be a bit more vulnerable.

 

If on a narrowboat, I'd opt for perspex windows, or double-glazing. Rocks *do* get thrown now and again. Never had it happen while I've been on my boat, but maybe I've been lucky.

 

If mooring somewhere with a current, and possible vandals, take a chain and padlock. Use this for one mooring point, that way you are secure even if they cut your ropes.

 

Also, lead ropes back onto boat and tie on there. They are much less inclined to untie them if they have to clamber onto your boat.

[DHutch]

Canal vanadlism has never been a big issue from what ive seen, we havent had any trouble really, once or twice we've been spat apon when going under bridges in "rough" areas, but as long as your not careless, i dont think you will have a problem.

 

- I mean, i dont think i would be happy leaving emily anne unattended in a "rough area" for very long, but then again, i've be less happy to leave a car/carvan in a "rough area" - i mean, the canals are accutaly just part of the really world, apprently?

 

 

 

hey what's wrong with steamboaters?  I'm a member of the SBA and I think we might all get a bit miffed.   

 

- SBA member eh, i guess that makes two of us?

 

 

daniel

[tomandsophie]

Thanks for the posts guys

Nice to know that major incidents are pretty rare. I guess i can cope with swareing and stones. I have read that its a good idea to check that your windows glass is easy to replace! However now i have more questions!

 

Alistair

My boat is very solid, the doors are stronger than most house doors, with very good locks. Windows ditto. Narrowboats tend to be a bit more vulnerable.

 

If on a narrowboat, I'd opt for perspex windows, or double-glazing. Rocks *do* get thrown now and again. Never had it happen while I've been on my boat, but maybe I've been lucky.

 

 

Why are your doors particularly solid, and have they not got windows in them? We're having windows fitted at the bow; in the doors and beside (its a widebeam). I guess this makes it more of a security risk. I was just thinking of fitting double glazing on the bow windows but then if they really wanted to get in i guess they could just go the the sides! Unfortunately can't afford to do the whole boat DG.

 

What kind of locks can you (all) recommend for doors and/or windows. I guess the door ones could be just like on a house (?) but the windows are different (typical "bus-like" windows on ours).

 

I take it by peoples lack of responses about alarms that they are generally not used.

 

Cheers,

Sophie

[Alastair]

I have a kind of 'porch', so there is an internal and external door, both lockable. Both 2" mahogany. The outer one has a 6" porthole, with 12mm toughened glass. The inner is normal 8mm toughened glass.

 

My windows vary; the large ones are 12mm toughened glass, the larger portholes are 22mm glass.

 

Dunno about window locks, mine are all ex-ship windows and use 'dogs' to secure them, that couldn't be undone from the outside.

[Amicus]

blimey Alastair what do you live in, a fort, castle, or a bomb-shelter, 22mm glass! sheess.

[Alastair]

Dutch barge, with Cat C RCD. As the freeboard is very low, the windows have to be watertight. Whoever converted my boat from it's cargo-carrying days built it to withstand a wave sweeping over the entire boat. Even the engine bay air intakes are positioned to cope with this.

 

Being a barge, she doesn't have the stability to cope with really severe weather, but it's nice to know that she is secure, when offshore.

 

And it would be a fearsome bandit who could chuck a rock through 22mm glass!

[robsusiecuttlefish]

I guess it's the old story - the fear of crime rather than the crime itself.

Susie and studied Human Geography at uni and we researched this in some detail so I hope you will be alittle reassured. However, i appreciate that as we have yet to move onto our liveaboard (n.b. Cuttlefish - we are fitting out from a bare shell this summer - 65ft trad Colecraft) then you may have far more grounds to be anxious than we are at present, living in leafy Twickenham.

Would be interested to laern about your story as a couple ... why you chose to live on the water ... waht problems you have faced/or are still facing.

 

Best wishes

 

Rob and Susie

[tomandsophie]

Rob and Susie,

We went up to Colecraft yesterday to discuss the build of our new home (10'6 by 57') which should be in build as of next week or so. They run a very tight ship (no cheesy pun intended) and they are very friendly and helpful. We looked around some lovely looking boats in their yard and it was all very very impressive. Really looking forward to seeing our boat...

As for our story - very briefly - we have wanted to live on a boat since a couple of years before we were married in 2002. That is as far back as it goes for us two, but I (Tom) have wanted to live on a boat ever since I was 8 and saved up my pocketmoney to buy a copy of 'Boats and Planes for Sale' and dreamed about it! We were inspired to move onto the water when we looked around a houseboat for rent while we were at uni in Southampton. It was a converted tug called the Harold Brown, and we instantly fell in love with the idea of living afloat. Then we left uni, got married, and now we have finally decided to move aboard, inspired by living near the Kennet and Avon and by the fact that buying a house is simply impossible!

So there you have it. Where is your boat going to be moored? Tell me your story too...

Tom

Edited February 15, 2005 by tomandsophie

[NB Willawaw]

I've had minor incidents like drunks jumping on the roof at night, but then I did moor in a town centre underneath a bridge (and it was very close to a nightclub !)

Mind you they ran when I sent the wife out to sort them out ! (joking).

 

The most disturbing incident was on the Llangollen when a young teenage boater living with his girlfriend on a small GRP cruiser, starting threatening me for making wash. Now, I HAD briefly opened the throttle a little to keep steerage on an exposed, widish patch of canal on a windy day, but he was way over the top.

I was very polite but he was threatening to kill me if I would care to step ashore. I deliberately said nothing to inflame him, but then his mother emerged from an old narrowboat moored astern of him and her language was enough to make a docker blush. I had my elderly in-laws onboard and they were visibly shaken by their language, threats and general intimidation. I reported them at the next lock, which was the beginning of a flight and manned. The BW guy told me that the boaters in question lived there and were well-known in the area for intimidating strangers and trying to get compensation from them for alleged wash damage.

With a wry smile, he also said that he would have already known if I had been speeding or causing excess wash because there is a hire yard just by there and they normally ring ahead and complain if anybody rocks their hire fleet !

 

Best Regards

 

Mark

 

NB Willawaw - Fenny Stratford (GU Northbound)

[John Orentas]

Twenty five years or so on the canals, though not living aboard. I have had two or three minor incidents with 'vandals', but never any kind of damage. As was implied on another reply, I too have had far more altercations with fellow boaters.

 

Some scream hysterically for you to slow down as you pass by on tick-over, others decline to help at locks but try to jump in front when they consider it is their turn.

 

Don't worry these incidents happen perhaps once a year.

[roger]

See this link re Brum. When I was there last summer I did not experience any problems - however it seems aggression from late night revellers is very common around Gas St basin. I rue the day that the canals were opened up to the world here - the new development is lovely but it seems it has come with a price - I always remember that little door that led out boaters of the basin into an unsuspecting and bustling city. Is this wholesale opening up of the canal towpaths encouraging more or less vandalism?

 

http://icbirmingham.icnetwork.co.uk/0100ne...-name_page.html

[maffi mushkila]

<snip>I too have had far more altercations with fellow boaters.

 

Some scream hysterically for you to slow down as you pass by on tick-over, others decline to help at locks but try to jump in front when they consider it is their turn. 

 

I can't help but wonder how these people would react if you levelled a 12 gauge in their direction. (not that I would)

Edited February 16, 2005 by maffi mushkila

[Alastair]

Maffi, you worry me sometimes. It wasn't so long ago that you were talking of carrying a machete, now it's a 12 guage. Don't you know that the only appropriate 'tool' for a boater is a 12ft barge pole with an 8" sharpened steel spike on the end, and a light culvern mounted on the aft rail?

[maffi mushkila]

Maffi, you worry me sometimes.  It wasn't so long ago that you were talking of carrying a machete, now it's a 12 gauge.  Don't you know that the only appropriate 'tool' for a boater is a 12ft barge pole with an 8" sharpened steel spike on the end, and a light culvern mounted on the aft rail?

 

 

Tsk Tsk I would hardly call it a machete.

 

I like the sound of your barge pole oops you know what I mean.

 

As far as I can find out a Culvern in a small artillery piece so how does that differ from a 12 gauge apart from the fact that it makes a bigger hole.

[Alastair]

A culvern belongs on a boat. A 12 guage is not boaty, although a punt gun may be acceptible on a narrowboat or barge.

 

The barge pole exists, and has been used, although miscreants ran away from the pointy end before it was too late!

[Bernie]

I have spoken to people who have had problems in various areas. One couple we knew had their ropes cut in the middle of the night in a very secluded area where they thought they were safe just prior to the Southern end of Harecastle tunnel. We were moored further back in Longport with 2 pubs nearby and were fine. The only time we have been worried was cruising back from Burton on Trent when we came across some chaps with a moored boat who offered to help us through the locks, for some reason we became suspicious when they said that both of us could stay on the boat and further conversation aroused our suspicions, I think it might have been when we were told that they had broken down because their stern tube greaser wasn't working properly, so we let them know that we had two dogs on board and they then decided we could manage the locks ourselves and legged it back to their boat. We then proceeded and made any oncoming boat aware of possible problems. I do know there are some probable no go areas but we have had no real attacks of vandalism, just the odd small stone thrown which at worst may have chipped the paint.

[Gary Peacock]

Hi all

 

I think I might have found the ideal solution.

 

 

 

Edit -image removed incase generates the same heated responses as last time

 

It would also be very useful for dealing with the VAT man.

 

Just think of the mail order potential!

 

Gary

Edited February 16, 2005 by Jon

[Jon]

We've already had the debate about how to deal with vandals, and as I remember it was a litlle heated, so lets not go down that road again please.

 

As with all these issues, we only hear about the people who have problems and not from those who don't, and I think that this could give a false impression. While I have been aware of minor issues from kids, none of my boating friends have been affected by anything more serious (yet) however, it always better to be safe than sorry.

 

I would suggest that aslong as your boat is properly secured (both to the bank, and internally!) there should not be a problem . While breakins will always happen, particularly when the boat is unattended for long periods of time, as long as you take the nessacary precautions then you shouldn't need to loose sleep over it.

 

One of my friends always chains the boat to a fixed mooring when leaving it for a long time, reduces temptation. While there are suspect areas (end of the North Stratford, L&L below Bingley on approach to Liverpool), many many boats pass through without any (much) trouble.

 

Remember that if you are in immediate fear for your safety, or that of your boat, then dial 999 and get the police on route.

 

If you do experience problems then let the local police know via non-emergency numbers and also inform BW/EA so that they can be made aware also. The more people who are aware then the more chance of targetted patrol and pro-active security measures being put in place.

 

Jon

[roger]

I agree with Jon. I think everyone goes around in circles on this vandalism issue. Since the day the canals were built vandalism has had a very active part. Its a question of whether we can find ways to reduce it or not. Vandalism is here to stay and discussing it will not make it go away if we cant find solutions that will go some way towards lessening it.

[robsusiecuttlefish]

(Tom, tried to send this to your e-mail via this site's link but it was bounced back! Have put our e-mail below - look forward to hearing from you!)

 

Wow! Good to read that there are other ex-university couples with the same dreams! We also got married in 2002 (well we signed the London Partnerships Register in City Hall next to Tower Bridge as we didn't want to have a State wedding as such). We know Southampton well as Susie is from the Isle of Wight and her parents still live there (Godshill) so we go down regularly - and especially now that Dave my Father-in-Law has agreed to help us with the complete fit out of Cuttlefish this year - bye the way, we have a spot next to their 60ft Hudson moored in Harefield Marina in West London --just 3 miles from Uxbridge where we went to Brunel Uni - will be good to go back to a more egalitarian area as richmon/Twickenham is full of toffs and as a couple who only rent and have no car and a 27 year age gap, we are seen as subversives i think? What degrees did you do? We know an academic couple moored at Newbury - through our membership of the Residential Boat Owners Association - he's a Dr o

f Enginerring and lectures at Southampton Uni!

We love being Geographers although Susie is not comfortable as a 'career academic' and would love to do something else. She works as a Research Fellow at London South Bank University and got her PhD last summer. I started a Phd and went to durham Uni in 2000, after graduating from Brunel but i hated it there and came back to London. At 53 it's been a struggle getting work but after many different careers i have finally 'discovered' that I am better working for myself so i'm trying to develop my home-based Research Consultancy - doing different things in the Social sciences etc - will see how it goes!

I too as a boy wanted to get afloat and remember (all those years ago) writing the name Cuttlefish on the board at school --- finally the dream is taking shape!

What a coincidence with Colecraft!!! They seem okay and we are hoping to take delivery 1st June. Sam Cole is anice fella but quite 'horizontal' i think? We are going to use a surveyor based in Banbury and maybe a firm called Homer for the spray insulation. Susie and i are contemplating submitting a research proposal for funding as nobody seems to know much about poeple's lives afloat in the 21st century and their is hardly any academic literature around.

Our e-mail is robsusie.cactus@virgin.net if you ever want a chat - your advice/expertise would be great to have.

 

ROB