water in engine space

[kelly_87]

Hello hello!

Im new to boating and this forum, so please be gentle and excuse any ignorance!

 

I bought a 30ft narrowboat to liveaboard about a month ago - and although I'm not quite living aboard yet (wrapping up my old life, easing into my new one), Im spending as much time as I can at the weekends and after work getting to know my boat.

 

Bluebee is a 1987 steel hull narrowboat, air cooled lister engine, and I had her lifted out and partly replated on the advice of a surveyor about a month ago.

 

When I bought her, I knew there was some water in the engine room - as per the survey - and as she hadnt been lived on for about 6 months, and her cratch cover had been off, I knew she needed some TLC - which she's getting in increments... poor girl.

 

Last weekend after I moved her, I turned on the bilge pump, then mop-and-bucketed about 3 inches of water from the engine space... a week later, Im a couple of inches deep again. I checked the weed hatch (fine) the stern gland (fine - and repacked about a year ago) and cant see any obvious place it's coming in. Cratch cover is up - and I havent driven her since the first time I (thought) I'd dealt with the bilge water...

 

My Columbo deduction is that possibly when she was lifted out, (craned) as the previous owner hadnt had the water tank at the front of the boat emptied, there may have been a spillage, and what Im dealing with is water running down the bilges to the back of the boat ... but does this sound likely? or possible? or have I done the unthinkable and managed to break her the very first time I drove her?

 

I'm trying to learn as much as I can about maintaining her - but as a solo girl who's never driven a car, let alone a boat, it's VERY much learn-as-I-go

 

Any advice greatly appreciated - please bear in mind that Im fairly panicked as it is, and every time I go back to her, I expect to find her sunk!

 

Thanks so much for any help in advance - xxxxx

 

[Delta9]

Is it a cruiser stern? Could it be rain water?

[kelly_87]

def not rainwater - old girl's cratch covers are up... x

[Delta9]

Is the engine bilge connected to the cabin bilge or is there a bulkhead between the two? It could be from a leak in the water system if the bilges are connected. Do you hear your water pump come on occasionally?

Edited March 28, 2015 by Delta9

[DeanS]

If it's an aircooled Lister...is the engine in it's own engine room.....? This room normally has a metal plate across the width of the boat to stop oil running into the living area bilge....

 

Do you have such an engine room.

Where are you seeing the water...in this area, or further forward?

[kelly_87]

ooppphhh this is where my ignorance starts to show...

 

the engine is in a space under the aft deck - which I lift a hatch to access - not big enough for me to get into physically (unless I were to realllllllyyyyy breathe in) with like, a large tray underneath - which isnt filling with any liquid - oil or water - given she's sat still at the mo...

 

There is a bulkhead - but I noticed today it has a hole in- I think NOT a design feature, but corrosion or damage which I know needs some serious attention -

 

Is it possible to have a partial bulkhead??? would that be a thing??? (TOTAL ignorance - so sorry)

 

I'm not really living on her proper, so havent been using the water system at all - but certainly not hearing the pump come on

(thank you for taking the time to puzzle this through with me by the way xx)

[Delta9]

Can you access the cabin bilge to see if it is also wet?

[kelly_87]

good question... a job for tomorrow!!!?? i certainly havent got an obvious access point to the cabin bilge... but a bit of investigation is probably a good idea . x

[DeanS]

if there is a hole between the engine area, and the living area, it should be sealed up ...

you should cut an inspection hole in the living area floorboards to be able to suck out any water under the floorboards.

The engine bay shouldn't fill with water..not good for wiring, starter motor etc.

[Tom Richmond]

Hi Bluebee,

 

Some good lines of investigation above to follow...

 

I just wanted to chime in a clarify a few things. Firstly, when you say your cratch cover is up, do you mean over the back deck? The term cratch applies to the front of the boat, the one at the back more normally being called a "pram hood", there may have been a little confusion above because of this.

 

Yes, it is possible to have a partial bulkhead, but on a cruiser stern (larger outdoor deck, with wooden boards over the engine... usually) it is most normally a sealed metal bulkhead between the engine space and the cabin bilge, as the engine is technically outside.

 

It is possible that you just have a build up of water in your cabin bilge, either from a one time event (you mentioned a potential water tank leak?) or from a slow build up (either rain or from the water system, even condensation), and that this si slowly seeping out of the bilge through very small holes... This does happen, and can keep coming for months... As Dean says above a hole in the floor somewhere should allow you to suck up this water, if it is there, but it may still keep seeping in...

 

I doubt very much that you have managed to hole your boat while moving her, 99.9% the water is coming from onboard somewhere, or from above.

 

If it is your water system then as mentioned above the pump would probably come on (as the water leaked out of the pipes somewhere in the boat, the pump would come on to re pressurise the pipe), but it could be that the leak was before the pump, or in the tank itself... We'd need a bit more info about what type of system you have to say what might be happening here.

 

So, things to check: Can you get under the floor in the boat? Lift a floor board, or drill/cut a hole somewhere (under a bed or in a cupboard, where it wont be a problem) and take a peek into the bilge. Can you check your tank, pump and water system for leaks (a good trick is to put a piece of toilet paper by a connection and see if it stays dry...) Is the engine section sealed to the rest of the boat, or is this hole you have found leaking water? (If so then maybe it is good you have found the hole, because now you know the cabin bilge has water in, you can start work to dry it out!

 

By the way, when I got my boat a little over a year ago the cabin and engine bilges were completely sodden, and much of the floor proved to be beyond repair. The culprit was a leaking water pump on an auxiliary water tank. So I have some idea of what it's all about... What I can say is that it may feel a bit overwhelming right now, but better that you find out about things early, and get on to fixing them. The feeling of satisfaction you will have when you know the bilges are dry will far outway any worry you might be feeling right now!

 

Best of luck with your investigations, let us know what you find, and we can see about how best to get on with stopping the water and drying her out!

[Keeping Up]

On a 1980's boat it is certainly possible for the bulkhead between the engine bay and the cabin to have been designed with a hole or holes in it, or even not to reach right to the bottom of the boat. This would have been accompanied by a similar arrangement between the front cockpit and the cabin, so that rainwater from the front cockpit area (before it had a cratch cover) would run underneath the floor to the back of the boat. This was called a "wet bilge" design.

 

This design was extremely common in the 1970's and very unusual in the 1990's, being gradually phased out during the 1980's. The clue to this is to be seen by looking at the front cockpit area. If the floor is above the water line, so a foot or two above the cabin floor, and there are holes in the side of the boat to let the water out you have a dry bilge design; if it is below the water line you almost certainly have a wet bilge design. A lot of people actually liked using the wet bilge design with the Lister engine because it sucked the air, together with any smells or gas, from below the floor and kept it fresh.

 

In boats with a dry bilge design, any leaks in the plumbing will remain in the cabin bilge but if you have a wet bilge design any such leaks will naturally run through to the engine area. So it is certainly possible that your water is fresh water rather than canal or rain water.

[kelly_87]

oh my god - thank you for all being so helpful and reassuring!

Im LOVING getting my hands dirty (literally - detangled a pair of Adidas joggers from the prop shaft yesterday... THAT was an experience) and although Im worried about the water there IS something really satisfying about trying to work this through myself rather than call a landlord (or my mother!)

 

I did indeed mean pram hood (?!) - didnt realise there was a differentiation - v good extra vocab

 

Going to do some poking today and see what I can find...

 

it might be helpful to know that the bulkhead is a combination of steel and wood construction....?

 

I was chatting to some guys on the canal yesterday, and apparently it's not uncommon to find boats with water in them - although it's not healthy I know? But just as long as she's going to stay afloat long enough for me to fix her, I can cope (just) !

 

It\s really irritating as wanted to clear the corrosion out and repaint inside the compartment, but obviously can't until I find where this is coming from

 

I'll keep you updated - and many thanks xxxx

[Tony Dunkley]

oh my god - thank you for all being so helpful and reassuring!

Im LOVING getting my hands dirty (literally - detangled a pair of Adidas joggers from the prop shaft yesterday... THAT was an experience) and although Im worried about the water there IS something really satisfying about trying to work this through myself rather than call a landlord (or my mother!)

 

I did indeed mean pram hood (?!) - didnt realise there was a differentiation - v good extra vocab

 

Going to do some poking today and see what I can find...

 

it might be helpful to know that the bulkhead is a combination of steel and wood construction....?

 

I was chatting to some guys on the canal yesterday, and apparently it's not uncommon to find boats with water in them - although it's not healthy I know? But just as long as she's going to stay afloat long enough for me to fix her, I can cope (just) !

 

It\s really irritating as wanted to clear the corrosion out and repaint inside the compartment, but obviously can't until I find where this is coming from

 

I'll keep you updated - and many thanks xxxx

 

If the engine compartment bilge is corroded, that may be an indication that there's nothing new happening, and water has been getting in for a long time before you bought the boat. Is there any water sitting on the horizontal plating on either side of the weedhatch ?

[Bacchus]

Hi Kelly_87

 

Apologies if I am stating the obvious, but do you have a manual greaser on the stern-gland?

 

I know you say that you checked it, but if the packing is worn you only have to run the boat a small distance for the thing to start weeping again, and a small weep can add up to a lot of water over a couple of days

[Grebe]

Have you looked at the deck-board/hatch for signs of water tracking in?

 

I ask because If you assume the boat sits slightly bow-high, rain water from the roof and cabin sides could possibly track along the gunnel and find its way into the bilge. Does the pram-hood ensure that water off the roof diverts away rather than being able to track to the rear bulkhead?

[alan_fincher]

Last weekend after I moved her, I turned on the bilge pump, then mop-and-bucketed about 3 inches of water from the engine space... a week later, Im a couple of inches deep again. I checked the weed hatch (fine) the stern gland (fine - and repacked about a year ago) and cant see any obvious place it's coming in. Cratch cover is up - and I havent driven her since the first time I (thought) I'd dealt with the bilge water...

 

I admit I have not read every post in the thread, so apologies if covered.....

 

But as you are talking about the "engine space", the bit under the engine, (whether an separate enclosed tray, or actually part of the boat's structure), should not have a bilge pump in it, (or certainly not one that is capable of pumping whatever is in there into the cut).

 

It is a requirement that this area is separate from any of the rest of the bilge, and the bilge pump(s) should only cover the bits not under the engine, as under the engine is likely to have a fair amount of contaminants like oil, diesel and grease - particularly if it is a typical old air cooled Lister engine!)

 

You probably meant something slightly different, (or are collecting any contaminated water for safe disposal), but obviously it must not get pumped overboard!

[SamKingfisher]

It is possible that the engine bilge has more than one compartment, and the drain between is partially blocked. This leads to the main bilge filling between emptyings as the other bit slowly drains. That happened in my boat.

 

May not apply to yours.

[Murflynn]

 

 

But as you are talking about the "engine space", the bit under the engine, (whether an separate enclosed tray, or actually part of the boat's structure), should not have a bilge pump in it, (or certainly not one that is capable of pumping whatever is in there into the cut).

 

It is a requirement that this area is separate from any of the rest of the bilge, and the bilge pump(s) should only cover the bits not under the engine, as under the engine is likely to have a fair amount of contaminants like oil, diesel and grease - particularly if it is a typical old air cooled Lister engine!)

 

 

in post #6 the OP said the engine tray is dry.

[Dinz]

What state/type of water?

Have seen one or two out there that use bilge for grey water. [shower/sink etc]

Then let bilge pump dump it.

Uncommon but they are out there.

Does water smell of Vosene?

[craftycarper]

I know it sounds a bit obvious but every leaky sunroof I,ve seen have been down to blocked drainage ducts, is the water able to run off the rear deck properly check any drainage holes by poking something through them it does not take long for leaves to block these things up if it's been stood under trees, may also be worth getting someone to spray a hose over your cover while you sit inside and see if you get any ingress

[kelly_87]

Hello all -

 

Not to worry re: the dirty water in the engine tray - that I manually mopped and popped into containers - the rest of the water round the engine space is actually fairly clean (sadly not vosene clean!) which makes me think it's from the water tank, or rainwater... had a look today and there's no more than there was yesterday, and given the torrential rain.... although I guess I'll see tomorrow, as the back of the boat sits a fair bit lower than the front (full of diesel, little left in the water tank which is at the front)

 

I'm hoping there's been a one time event and I'm getting the tail end of it- or that there's been historical ingress from some of the holes that I had blocked over when she was lifted out that werent doing anything, and what I'm seeing is water running to the back from the cabin bilges that will eventually stop

 

It's wishful thinking isnt it...

 

But am going to cut a hole in to see into the cabin bilge so may get some answers there...

 

It's good to hear other people that have had this and are still (i hope!) afloat though - the big fear was that I was sinking VERY slowly.

 

Does the fear of sinking EVER go away?! xx

[Kendal]

Does the fear of sinking EVER go away?! xx

 

From my perspective I'm afraid not. It only seems to occur when it's your own boat though. I have recurring nightmares about my boat sinking (been having them ever since I bought my first nb over 20 years ago). They went away when I sold my last boat and left the cut for a while, but then came back again as soon as I bought my current boat a year ago.

 

Re your current concern, it seems like you've got your head screwed on so I'm sure you will work out where the water is coming from. I can't really add anything to the previous advice, suffice to say you should try and dry everything out as much as you can and then keep watch. If you are prepared to let us know you location (very roughly) I'm sure there will be some wise person on here locally that would be happy to have a butchers for you.

[Tom Richmond]

The fear of sinking has gone for me...

 

I trust my boat like I trust my Mum.

 

But you should have seen the panic I had the first time I was out on the cut and grounded on a mud bank, the bow went up on the mud, and the stern dug down into the water, I was at the stern obviously, so all I could see and think was water. I thought that was it for sure!!!

 

I think the idea of playing a hose over the pram hood is a good one. You could also put rags or kitchen towel under the deck boards in likely corners and see if they are wet after a decent downpour... (and you wont have to wait long for one of those!)

[GunnaDo]

I concur with the rear drains bit - mine are devils for getting bits of rust stuck in them. The other thing that comes to mind is leakage around the window frames. This can take a while to run back through the limber holes and arrive at the stern. Sometimes a half turn on the window screws can solve this one.

[Ricco1]

The door at the back of your boat: Does it lead directly off the rear deck or are there one or two steps down to the door?

 

If that's the latter that could be your problem. Rain water that doesn't run out through the deck drainage channels can find its way down the steps. There's usually a small hole drilled in the steel at the bottom of the steps to allow water to drain....straight into the engine bilge.

 

You mentioned that your boat is lower at the back than the front. This would exacerbate the problem as any rain landing on the roof of your boat would tend to run backwards, some of it ending up in your engine bilge.