River Trent - Single Handing

[Guest]

 

Well, that's your decision, but I think you will miss out on a lovely river and, of coarse, the experience.

 

If it were me, I would be tempted to wait until another boat was going your way and team up.

 

It wont be long as tide times dictate when they arrive from their, probable overnight moorings.

 

Most boaters would be only too pleased to help, to be honest most times I have "done the Trent" there have been 4 or 5 other boats.

 

Have a think and have a chat to others on your travels.

 

And lets face it, it is usually not for you to open those gates, the lockies do it, and they wont let you out till the time is right.

 

They are also in their place of work and they know a lot about the river and are happy to pass on some tips and advice!

 

Nipper

I think I agree. I regret never doing it despite being moored not that far away at Pollington.

 

Our boat has now done it, just not with us aboard.

[Naughty Cal]

But fancy being cast adrift for weeks on end in the ocean after shipwreck in a 10' rubber dinghy with the main participants of this thread, with a VHF that's out of range. Tongues hangin out with dreadful thirst barely quenched by the odd spot of rain and by licking the morning dew off the rubber dinghy. Smothered all over and complexions ruined with sun baked festering sea boils and getting hungrier and hungrier and hungrier. Sinister and terrible cannibalistic thoughts trouble the minds as each and every one peers around at each other with bloodshot goggling eyes.

The question is. Who will be ganged up upon to be eaten first?

 

Ps I reckon old Meggers will plump for a Meggerphone after this.

Have you been watching All Is Lost?

[Jim Riley]

But fancy being cast adrift for weeks on end in the ocean after shipwreck in a 10' rubber dinghy with the main participants of this thread, with a VHF that's out of range. Tongues hangin out with dreadful thirst barely quenched by the odd spot of rain and by licking the morning dew off the rubber dinghy. Smothered all over and complexions ruined with sun baked festering sea boils and getting hungrier and hungrier and hungrier. Sinister and terrible cannibalistic thoughts trouble the minds as each and every one peers around at each other with bloodshot goggling eyes.

The question is. Who will be ganged up upon to be eaten first?

 

Ps I reckon old Meggers will plump for a Meggerphone after this.

Not me, given my job, I'd taste funny.

On a sensible note, there was a comment earlier about not being able to find vhf licence course online, I just googled that phrase, there's a good few online courses, however it looks like one has to attend a RYA centre for one day to qualify.

[rgreg]

Many thanks for all the useful info and advice, including PMs. I'm happy single handing on non tidal rivers as there are usually plenty of places to moor if the conditions change. However, as Alan said in the previous post a narrow boat isn't designed for this type of water and I don't want to push my luck. On balance I think I'll probably return on the HNC.

You must do it. Just look at what you'd be missing: http://s778.photobucket.com/user/rgreg/media/BoatJourney521.mp4.html?sort=3&o=0

[bizzard]

Have you been watching All Is Lost?

Yes and ''The sea cannot have them'', and I've read all the shipwreck books under the sun including that all time classic ''Coral Island''.

Yes and ''The sea cannot have them'', and I've read all the shipwreck books under the sun including that all time classic ''Coral Island''.

I've been shipwrecked twice, once on Canvey point and once on Shoeburyness breakwater.

[Tesla]

Being an ex lumpy-water boater I find the Rivers (and particularly Tidal Rivers) to cause some apprehension.

 

The difference is that on the sea you/we/I are using a 'proper' boat which is designed for the conditions likely to be encountered.

 

On the River (using a long thin underpowered steel tube with no keel) it is not unusual to find a flow of 4 mph and whilst the boat is capable of 4-5mph sitting there virtually going backwards is of concern - throw in a bit of cross-wind and it can start to look a bit 'hairy'.

 

A mechanical failure on the Sea means you can just sit there drifting until the problem is solved or rescue arrives - on the River, mechanical failure means that you may well be drifting out of control towards a 'huge' weir.

 

Anchoring takes on a new meaning on the rivers - if you do it, it is probably because of an emergency.

 

Given the choice - the sea every time (SWMBO is the opposite)

Summed up nicely although rivers in a yacht(sail or motor) hold little fear, the idea of doing it in an nb still scares me. Vhf courses well worth the cost and one day of time. Crazy not to invest in it in my view.

[denboy]

some are missing the point about the TIDAL trent you leave keadby on the turn of the tide and the tide pushes you up river big tides and you will fly up the river ,

[Tony Dunkley]

Many thanks for all the useful info and advice, including PMs. I'm happy single handing on non tidal rivers as there are usually plenty of places to moor if the conditions change. However, as Alan said in the previous post a narrow boat isn't designed for this type of water and I don't want to push my luck. On balance I think I'll probably return on the HNC.

Just to put things into some sort of perspective, as far as I'm aware, and going by the content of some threads on this Forum, more boats have sunk on the Huddersfield Narrow Canal since it reopened than have come to grief on the Trent between Keadby and Cromwell in the same period. You shouldn't be put off coming back south by that route this Autumn by any of the nonsense that's been trotted out about ABP Byelaws and carrying VHF being essential, some folk seem to delight in making a great drama out of things that are nothing of the sort.

You can break the Keadby to Cromwell stretch into a couple of three and a half to four hour jaunts, and there's no reason why you shouldn't thoroughly enjoy it.

My opinions and any advice I give come from 56 years of the Trent, having first got to know it as a 12 year old boy in the company of my Father, who managed to get around on the Humber , Ouse and Trent, without any mishaps and without any (safety) equipment other than a sounding lead, a compass for finding the next float or buoy in bad visibility in the Humber, and a temperature and an oil pressure gauge for the engine.

You're very welcome to PM me for more info., and I can talk you through anything you may still be concerned about.

Edited March 17, 2015 by Tony Dunkley

[denboy]

Spot on Tony

[mrsmelly]

Just to put things into some sort of perspective, as far as I'm aware, and going by the content of some threads on this Forum, more boats have sunk on the Huddersfield Narrow Canal since it reopened than have come to grief on the Trent between Keadby and Cromwell in the same period. You shouldn't be put off coming back south by that route this Autumn by any of the nonsense that's been trotted out about ABP Byelaws and carrying VHF being essential, some folk seem to delight in making a great drama out of things that are nothing of the sort.

You can break the Keadby to Cromwell stretch into a couple of three and a half to four hour jaunts, and there's no reason why you shouldn't thoroughly enjoy it.

My opinions and the advice I give come from 56 years of the Trent, having first got to know it as a 12 year old boy in the company of my Father, who managed to get around on the Humber , Ouse and Trent, without any mishaps and without any (safety) equipment other than a sounding lead, a compass for finding the next float or buoy in bad visibility in the Humber, and a temperature and an oil pressure gauge for the engine.

You're very welcome to PM me for more info., and I can talk you through anything you may still be concerned about.

 

Tony you are right about scare mongering and the Trent can be and is enjoyed by many people without problem. No one has posted that vhf radio is an absolute must but it can be a very handy piece of equipment if problems arise. Safety does not have to be taken analy but I for one never go on a river without suitable equipment on my boat. I also carry fire extinguishers and a fire blanket and co/gas and smoke alarms onboard none of which thankfully have ever been used but in the great scheme of boating costs all these items including vhf radio add up to a couple of bags of peanuts so it realy isnt so much a matter of choice but more of common sense to carry them.

 

Tim

[matty40s]

Tony you are right about scare mongering and the Trent can be and is enjoyed by many people without problem. No one has posted that vhf radio is an absolute must but it can be a very handy piece of equipment if problems arise. Safety does not have to be taken analy but I for one never go on a river without suitable equipment on my boat. I also carry fire extinguishers and a fire blanket and co/gas and smoke alarms onboard none of which thankfully have ever been used but in the great scheme of boating costs all these items including vhf radio add up to a couple of bags of peanuts so it realy isnt so much a matter of choice but more of common sense to carry them.

 

Tim

I never did work out what to do with the peanuts?

[Naughty Cal]

Just to put things into some sort of perspective, as far as I'm aware, and going by the content of some threads on this Forum, more boats have sunk on the Huddersfield Narrow Canal since it reopened than have come to grief on the Trent between Keadby and Cromwell in the same period. You shouldn't be put off coming back south by that route this Autumn by any of the nonsense that's been trotted out about ABP Byelaws and carrying VHF being essential, some folk seem to delight in making a great drama out of things that are nothing of the sort.

You can break the Keadby to Cromwell stretch into a couple of three and a half to four hour jaunts, and there's no reason why you shouldn't thoroughly enjoy it.

My opinions and any advice I give come from 56 years of the Trent, having first got to know it as a 12 year old boy in the company of my Father, who managed to get around on the Humber , Ouse and Trent, without any mishaps and without any (safety) equipment other than a sounding lead, a compass for finding the next float or buoy in bad visibility in the Humber, and a temperature and an oil pressure gauge for the engine.

You're very welcome to PM me for more info., and I can talk you through anything you may still be concerned about.

I'm sure that the OP and their insurers will rest easy knowing that Anthony Dunkley is on the case offering advice.

 

Which is another point people should bear in mind. You might want to check that your insurers are happy with you single handing on Category C tidal waterways And check any other conditions they might have imposed on your policy.

 

It's all well and good people claiming you will be fine, but ultimately if something does go wrong it's your insurers you will have to turn too

 

I'm not sure what point Anthony is trying to make about his dad having no safety equipment.

 

My dad was a scaffolder and did lots of jobs with no safety equipment. He regretted not having it in place though when he fell two storeys from a part built scaffold!

I never did work out what to do with the peanuts?

Eat them?

some are missing the point about the TIDAL trent you leave keadby on the turn of the tide and the tide pushes you up river big tides and you will fly up the river , https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=soMzzuRF5pI

I wondered when someone might mention the ageir.

 

Not seen a good one for a while.

[dccruiser]

Just to put things into some sort of perspective, as far as I'm aware, and going by the content of some threads on this Forum, more boats have sunk on the Huddersfield Narrow Canal since it reopened than have come to grief on the Trent between Keadby and Cromwell in the same period. You shouldn't be put off coming back south by that route this Autumn by any of the nonsense that's been trotted out about ABP Byelaws and carrying VHF being essential, some folk seem to delight in making a great drama out of things that are nothing of the sort.

You can break the Keadby to Cromwell stretch into a couple of three and a half to four hour jaunts, and there's no reason why you shouldn't thoroughly enjoy it.

My opinions and any advice I give come from 56 years of the Trent, having first got to know it as a 12 year old boy in the company of my Father, who managed to get around on the Humber , Ouse and Trent, without any mishaps and without any (safety) equipment other than a sounding lead, a compass for finding the next float or buoy in bad visibility in the Humber, and a temperature and an oil pressure gauge for the engine.

You're very welcome to PM me for more info., and I can talk you through anything you may still be concerned about.

 

 

 

Tony you are right about scare mongering and the Trent can be and is enjoyed by many people without problem. No one has posted that vhf radio is an absolute must but it can be a very handy piece of equipment if problems arise. Safety does not have to be taken analy but I for one never go on a river without suitable equipment on my boat. I also carry fire extinguishers and a fire blanket and co/gas and smoke alarms onboard none of which thankfully have ever been used but in the great scheme of boating costs all these items including vhf radio add up to a couple of bags of peanuts so it realy isnt so much a matter of choice but more of common sense to carry them.

 

Tim

Couldnt agree more than with the above posters, i too have done the tidal trent on numerous occasions from Keadby on both sewer tubes and yoghurt pots ... both single handed and with the oh. On several occasions i have relied on just a mobile phone on others i have carried a vhf. On all trips i have used life jackets, i also bought a set of trent charts the very first time, but aside from using them to confirm which arch to pass through on the bridges, which were all common sense anyway and one sand bank i didnt need them, to make things worse i have only ever travelled down in the winter or in heavy rain and on boats i have just bought or have bought down for someone else, so i am looking forward to my next trip to Keadby as i will be going up river for the first time and for the first time have a fitted vhf and a pram hood cover!!!

 

 

Rick

[Wanderer Vagabond]

some are missing the point about the TIDAL trent you leave keadby on the turn of the tide and the tide pushes you up river big tides and you will fly up the river ,

As I am also giving some thought to travelling from Keadby up the Trent sometime during the summer can someone who's done it confirm at what point of the tide the Keadby Lockie sends you out? My thoughts are to go Keadby to West Stockwith one day, West Stockwith to Torksey on another day and Torksey to Cromwell on the final bit (on the tidal section). Each section being about 3 hours or so and ideally I'd prefer to reach the day's destination on slack water. That would mean the Lockie putting me out on the river at maximum tidal flow flow (3 hours after low water) to get me to my destination at slack water. That was pretty much how it worked on the Thames, is that how it works on the Trent?

 

Edited after checking map, not sure these bits will take 3 hours considering the tidal speed plus boat speed but I need to reach the destination before the tide starts to ebb so what time would the lockie let you go?

Edited March 17, 2015 by Wanderer Vagabond

[matty40s]

I am not sure what you are concerned about.

If you like short days, by all means stop at the intermediate points, Dunham pontoon moorings is the other stop,and the most useful on a neap tide if you don't think you want to keep going.

Otherwise, do it I one blast. I left Keadby at 08.50 Thursday just gone, and was in Cromwell at 14.32. That is a short days cruise in my book.

 

For PhyllisNautycal information, I challenged Tony on the timing, and he was within 5 minutes, and didn't know the boat.

[Tony Dunkley]

As a matter of interest, and relevant to this thread, can anyone explain precisely what immediate life saving benefit there is to be had from carrying VHF on a non-commercial river if you have, or are, broken down and drifting along on the tide in the middle of nowhere, aground on the ebb, fallen overboard, on fire, or are making a lot of water and sinking ?

I would suggest that, with the obvious exception of when having fallen overboard, instead of blethering into a VHF mic. while the situation gets worse you would be far better off getting an anchor down, having some snap and then getting your head down, putting the fire out, or finding where the water's coming in, and stopping it.

Edited March 18, 2015 by Tony Dunkley

[dccruiser]

As a matter of interest, and relevant to this thread, can anyone explain precisely what immediate life saving benefit there is to be had from carrying VHF on a non-commercial river if you have, or are, broken down and drifting along on the tide in the middle of nowhere, aground on the ebb, fallen overboard, on fire or sinking ?

I would suggest that, with the obvious exception of having fallen overboard, instead of blethering into a VHF mic. while the situation gets worse you would be far better off getting an anchor down, having some snap and then getting your head down, putting the fire out and finding where the water's coming in, and stopping it.

I agree, the majority of my boating for the last 30 years has been on the river, tidal or not it is all moving water! ... my stance has always been the same, stop the boat moving, get the kettle on access what needs to be done and get on with it.

Incidentally i have never known a boat sink on the move except on the canal when someone has left a weed hatch loose.

 

 

Rick

Edited March 17, 2015 by dccruiser

[Tony Dunkley]

As I am also giving some thought to travelling from Keadby up the Trent sometime during the summer can someone who's done it confirm at what point of the tide the Keadby Lockie sends you out? My thoughts are to go Keadby to West Stockwith one day, West Stockwith to Torksey on another day and Torksey to Cromwell on the final bit (on the tidal section). Each section being about 3 hours or so and ideally I'd prefer to reach the day's destination on slack water. That would mean the Lockie putting me out on the river at maximum tidal flow flow (3 hours after low water) to get me to my destination at slack water. That was pretty much how it worked on the Thames, is that how it works on the Trent?

 

Edited after checking map, not sure these bits will take 3 hours considering the tidal speed plus boat speed but I need to reach the destination before the tide starts to ebb so what time would the lockie let you go?

 

They'll let you out of Keadby as soon as there's enough water over the bank of mud just outside the lock, which can be from about half an hour (on big Springs) to an hour (on Neaps) after flood.

It runs up at Keadby for around only three and a half hours, so if you waited there for 3 hours after Flood you'd be under Ebb from around Gainsborough on up.

Unless there's a lot of fresh in the river and poor tides, Keadby to Cromwell is a quick and easy run. In the days when Harkers were delivering petrol and fuel oil to Nottingham the running time for a single barge, with no tow, from Hull, in normal conditions, was only 14 hours for the whole journey.

[Naughty Cal]

I am not sure what you are concerned about.

If you like short days, by all means stop at the intermediate points, Dunham pontoon moorings is the other stop,and the most useful on a neap tide if you don't think you want to keep going.

Otherwise, do it I one blast. I left Keadby at 08.50 Thursday just gone, and was in Cromwell at 14.32. That is a short days cruise in my book.

 

For PhyllisNautycal information, I challenged Tony on the timing, and he was within 5 minutes, and didn't know the boat.

However you missed out on the delights of West Stockwith, Gainsborough, Torksey and Dunham along the way. For cruisers there is also the pontoon and High Marnham Ski Club but they don't want steel hulled boats on the pontoon and it is wise to phone ahead in advance and check if they will be skiing or not, bit choppy on the pontoon if they are. There is a lovely pub just over the flood bank.

 

If you don't have to get up the Tidal Trent in one day there are some nice places to stop off and explore that are well worth the visit.

 

Ok. I'm up for a challenge. Anthony. We are leaving Torksey heading for West Stockwith on Saturday. What time will we arrive at West Stockwith?

[denboy]

the lock keepers will tell you what time they will let you go out depends what time of day and how big tides are and of course the boats power best bet is keadby to gainsboro or torksey then next tide up to cromwell,west stockwith only has slider rails to moor up to unless you go into the basin charts are next to useless as the sand bars move every winter and they dont get updated just stay in the middle and dont cut corners worst thing that can happen is you gets stuck and have to wait for next tide toflush youoff

[Naughty Cal]

the lock keepers will tell you what time they will let you go out depends what time of day and how big tides are and of course the boats power best bet is keadby to gainsboro or torksey then next tide up to cromwell,west stockwith only has slider rails to moor up to unless you go into the basin charts are next to useless as the sand bars move every winter and they dont get updated just stay in the middle and dont cut corners worst thing that can happen is you gets stuck and have to wait for next tide toflush youoff

Which would land you on the sunken islands at Fledbrough and Normanton!

 

ETA: Edited to add link to narrowboat stuck on Normanton

 

http://www.tuesdaynightclub.co.uk/Tour_05/Tour05_Trent.html

Edited March 18, 2015 by Naughty Cal

[Wanderer Vagabond]

 

They'll let you out of Keadby as soon as there's enough water over the bank of mud just outside the lock, which can be from about half an hour (on big Springs) to an hour (on Neaps) after flood.

It runs up at Keadby for around only three and a half hours, so if you waited there for 3 hours after Flood you'd be under Ebb from around Gainsborough on up.

Unless there's a lot of fresh in the river and poor tides, Keadby to Cromwell is a quick and easy run. In the days when Harkers were delivering petrol and fuel oil to Nottingham the running time for a single barge, with no tow, from Hull, in normal conditions, was only 14 hours for the whole journey.

That's a pretty relevant bit of info, have to admit that I wasn't aware that the tide on the Trent only floods for 3 to 3 1/2 hours,(have now looked it up in Nicholsons to confirm) I've always been used to 6 hours coming in and 6 hours going out again (lumpy water stuff). That will affect my plans since I prefer to travel on the flood arriving at my destination on slack water and will need to discuss best departure times with the lockie, I hope that they're better than on the Thames.

 

I am not sure what you are concerned about.

If you like short days, by all means stop at the intermediate points, Dunham pontoon moorings is the other stop,and the most useful on a neap tide if you don't think you want to keep going.

Otherwise, do it I one blast. I left Keadby at 08.50 Thursday just gone, and was in Cromwell at 14.32. That is a short days cruise in my book.

 

For PhyllisNautycal information, I challenged Tony on the timing, and he was within 5 minutes, and didn't know the boat.

It wasn't a case of being concerned but I want to stop off at the various offshoots coming off the Trent (Chesterfield Canal,Fossdyke and Witham) and would rather reach them on slack water than on either flood or ebb tide since when you are struggling to turn a narrow boat there is usually a crowd to cheer you on .

 

the lock keepers will tell you what time they will let you go out depends what time of day and how big tides are and of course the boats power best bet is keadby to gainsboro or torksey then next tide up to cromwell,west stockwith only has slider rails to moor up to unless you go into the basin charts are next to useless as the sand bars move every winter and they dont get updated just stay in the middle and dont cut corners worst thing that can happen is you gets stuck and have to wait for next tide toflush youoff

My intention is to travel on the flood tide so hopefully even if I catch one of the sand bars the rising tide should lift me off again (in theory!!)

 

Can someone advise how essential they would consider a Trent Chart to be? I have the Nicholsons covering the Trent and, since the sand bars sound as though they tend to shift about a bit I would need convincing that a chart is a worthwhile investment. Commonsense suggests to keep to the outside on corners (when you can) and avoid anything that looks a bit turbulent.

Edited March 18, 2015 by Wanderer Vagabond

[matty40s]

That's a pretty relevant bit of info, have to admit that I wasn't aware that the tide on the Trent only floods for 3 to 3 1/2 hours,(have now looked it up in Nicholsons to confirm) I've always been used to 6 hours coming in and 6 hours going out again (lumpy water stuff). That will affect my plans since I prefer to travel on the flood arriving at my destination on slack water and will need to discuss best departure times with the lockie, I hope that their better than on the Thames.

 

 

It wasn't a case of being concerned but I want to stop off at the various offshoots coming off the Trent (Chesterfield Canal,Fossdyke and Witham) and would rather reach them on slack water than on either flood or ebb tide since when you are struggling to turn a narrow boat there is usually a crowd to cheer you on:unsure: .

 

 

My intention is to travel on the flood tide so hopefully even if I catch one of the sand bars the rising tide should lift me off again (in theory!!)

 

Can someone advise how essential they would consider a Trent Chart to be? I have the Nicholsons covering the Trent and, since the sand bars sound as though they tend to shift about a bit I would need convincing that a chart is a worthwhile investment. Commonsense suggests to keep to the outside on corners (when you can) and avoid anything that looks a bit turbulent.

I came up on the flood last Thursday and used the charts (Quite old ones)as a guide, along with looking for issues.

Sunken island areas are clearly marked on the banks by large yellow signs,,and poles with red cans on show you where the correct channel is in more than one place.

If you are observant, and on the flood tide, you will not have problems.

[Tony Dunkley]

That's a pretty relevant bit of info, have to admit that I wasn't aware that the tide on the Trent only floods for 3 to 3 1/2 hours,(have now looked it up in Nicholsons to confirm) I've always been used to 6 hours coming in and 6 hours going out again (lumpy water stuff). That will affect my plans since I prefer to travel on the flood arriving at my destination on slack water and will need to discuss best departure times with the lockie, I hope that they're better than on the Thames.

 

It wasn't a case of being concerned but I want to stop off at the various offshoots coming off the Trent (Chesterfield Canal,Fossdyke and Witham) and would rather reach them on slack water than on either flood or ebb tide since when you are struggling to turn a narrow boat there is usually a crowd to cheer you on .

 

My intention is to travel on the flood tide so hopefully even if I catch one of the sand bars the rising tide should lift me off again (in theory!!)

 

Can someone advise how essential they would consider a Trent Chart to be? I have the Nicholsons covering the Trent and, since the sand bars sound as though they tend to shift about a bit I would need convincing that a chart is a worthwhile investment. Commonsense suggests to keep to the outside on corners (when you can) and avoid anything that looks a bit turbulent.

The 3 to 3.5 hours of Flood is applicable only to Keadby. The length of time for the Flood running up reduces as you get further upriver . . . in round figures and subject to variation ( Springs or Neaps, wind direction, atmospheric pressure and amount of fresh in the river) it's down to 2.25 to 2.5 hours at Stockwith, 2 to 2.25 hours at Gainsborough, 1.5 to 1.75 hours at Torksey and so on as you approach Cromwell.

Your plan to aim for HW (slack) arrivals at the places you want to stop will increase the chances of grounding somewhere with no more tide to lift you off. You'll be best off being as early on the flood as possible all the way up. The 'commonsense' way of staying in all the bights doesn't work everywhere on the Trent either, so try to follow somebody else who knows it fairly well, or get some of these Charts that keep being mentioned on here, I don't know if they're any good, but they probably will be better than nothing.

If you want to go into the canal at Stockwith it's no problem arriving there while it's still running up well, just start rounding up at the river Idle sluice ( on the west side of the Trent) and drop onto the wall by Stockwith lock. You can either turn in on a headspring or wait until the tide starts slacking.

There's a decent length of cut at Torksey with a slack in the entrance and on small tides or if there's a lot of fresh coming down you can turn straight in when coming upriver on the Flood. Otherwise round up to starboard, towards the ness on the west bank at the cut- end, after you've passed the Castle ruins on the east bank and turn into the cut when you're opposite to it.

Edited March 18, 2015 by Tony Dunkley

[matty40s]

There are a couple of places where to stick to the outside of the bends will mean you are at risk of coming aground, these are clear on the charts.