Battery types

[Phoenix_V]

What does the team think.

We are looking at replacing 4 110amp hour excide batteries purchased secondhand from Vince of this forum in 2009 - they have served us well but there capacity now seems a little limited.

I know all about the legendary Trojan T105s but am reluctant to buy these as;

1 They need topping up and our batteries are inaccessible

2 We cruise 2 months a year and the rest of the time the batteries are unattended on a charger, I believe wet cells are more dangerous in terms of gassing and explosions if something goes wrong whilst unattended I would prefer to stick with a sealed type such as the excides, shame they dont seem to make them any more.

3 The engine room gets hot and is not well ventilated.

 

The website below suggests using the same sort of battery in motorhomes (which presumably have similar needs to boats) as is now used in "stop start" cars and says;

"The technology used in car batteries has had to make major leaps forward because of Car Stop Start systems.

In a car with Stop Start technology the engine cuts out every time the car comes to rest for more than 3 seconds, yet the stereo, heated rear window, heater blower, heated seats, Wipers, electric heated mirrors, Headlights, etc may all continue to operate discharging the battery considerably before the engine restarts. The car Alternator then applies a big charge into the battery only for the engine to cut out at the next junction/lights and the cycle begins again.

Hopefully none of us will experience Stop Start in action to any degree, but in the major German Cities Stop Start is regarded as an essential option on today's cars. It's therefore not surprising that Bosch has been at the forefront of the work to make car batteries Deep Discharge and recharge without the degeneration that blighted Car Lead Acid batteries of old. This technology has been applied across much of the Bosch Battery range even to batteries which are not meant for Stop/Start applications.

"The Bosch product that most benefits Motorhome and Caravan owners is the Bosch S5. While it is not a Stop/Start battery it has much of the advanced high technology like Powerframe Plate construction combining the benefits of both Starter 'Thin Plate' and old style Leisure 'Thick Plates'. This Plate construction endows the benefit of being able to Start Motorhome Engines and perform as a semi Deep Cycle Habitation battery. Click HERE to see how this new advanced Plate construction has revolutionised battery performance. The same webpage also documents the technology that contains the gas normally given off ensuring it remains inside the battery, making it 100% maintenance free and Gas tight.

The S5 100Ah with Powerframe, Silver Calcium, Hydrogen/Oxygen containment, 5 year guarantee costs £98 (or £87 for a Varta Silver Dynamic H3 equivalent, see later text). Little more than the cost of inferior budget 'Leisure' batteries. We don't think any other battery in the price range works better in a Motorhome or Caravan Habitation area.

Please note that we do not recommend a conventional Starter Battery for use in the Habitation area. Only the Powerframe/Silver /Calcium/Sealed Battery.

A standard Budget Silver battery without Powerframe is no where near the same product.

 

A typical Bosch S5 battery is lighter than an old school leisure battery. A battery does not have to be heavy to be long lasting, it is now the technology of a batteries Plate construction that is important, not it's thickness or Lead content. In fact a high Lead, heavy battery is bad on so many levels, bad for the environment in terms of lead poison; increased fuel usage pulling the extra weight; danger of back injury carrying it; etc.

A Powerframe Plate constructed battery will outperform any other other type of conventional 'Thin' OR 'Thick' Plate battery in the same Class by a big margin, it is so technologically advanced.

 

In addition to the above the Bosch S5 has other benefits for Motorhome owners, it discharges only 5% when standing idle over the winter months compared to 50% for a conventional LA battery. They are also truly maintenance free, to the standards of Gel batteries from the 1990's, so do not give off any Hydrogen or Oxygen gas. They are guaranteed maintenance free for 5 years so can be used INSIDE the Motorhome habitation area, such as under the Driver's Seat.

They are extremely efficient due to the unique Plate construction so recharge more quickly than a conventional Wet Acid battery.

A Varta Silver/Bosch S5 charges up twice as quickly as a Gel battery and between 1.5 - 2.0 times faster than an AGM Battery. They also perform at extremes of temperatures that would damage other batteries. Efficiencey at very low temperatures is better than most rivals, so your Engine has more Cranking Amps available when the temperature drops to -20. The habitation battery in a cold outside locker will also have more reserve Amp hours.

Steve Kemp has done some research and found that the Varta Silver Dynamic range is identical to the Bosch S5 but can sometimes be found at a £10 saving. What you read for the Bosch S5 also applies to the Varta Silver Dynamic batteries. "

 

 

http://www.aandncaravanservices.co.uk/battery-technology.php

 

Plausible or snake oil? I doubt they have the same cycling ability as T105s but the other claimed advantages seem attractive, the website sells chargers not batteries so claim to be impartial.

Edited March 13, 2015 by Phoenix_V

[bottle]

'Cheap' (not too cheap), 'leisure' wet lead acid (sealed)

 

For your use, only two months of the year, you do not need anything 'fancy'

[Phoenix_V]

Sure but these are not very much more nowhere near AGMs

[bottle]

From one of the links:

 

S5/S4/S3 with PowerFrame^® technology: Optimum starting performance for every passenger car

 

I have not looked at these in depth but it seems they are designed for quick discharge (start) and quick recharge (after start).

 

So to my thinking they are heavy duty start batteries, the type the modern vehicles with auto stop/start require.

 

Aside:

 

(Pain in the butt, had the use of one recently and the longest time it stopped was less than five seconds, think of all that extra wear and tear on the starter etc.)

[Rich]

From one of the links:

 

S5/S4/S3 with PowerFrame^® technology: Optimum starting performance for every passenger car

 

I have not looked at these in depth but it seems they are designed for quick discharge (start) and quick recharge (after start).

 

So to my thinking they are heavy duty start batteries, the type the modern vehicles with auto stop/start require.

 

Aside:

 

(Pain in the butt, had the use of one recently and the longest time it stopped was less than five seconds, think of all that extra wear and tear on the starter etc.)

Still

 

But if you were driving round Northampton you would find that the stop/start does make a noticeable difference to the fuel consumption. This is because NBC has gone in for roadworks as a way of life.

[peterboat]

In Jaguars Varta are the original battery and are very long lived not so Bosch which we are reluctant to fit as they always try to wriggle out of the warranty so unless that bit has improved I would be reluctant to fit them my own S4 is a case in question from my Merc it is 2 years old and wont hold a charge but they wont change it my fault apparently

 

Peter

[Phoenix_V]

In Jaguars Varta are the original battery and are very long lived not so Bosch which we are reluctant to fit as they always try to wriggle out of the warranty so unless that bit has improved I would be reluctant to fit them my own S4 is a case in question from my Merc it is 2 years old and wont hold a charge but they wont change it my fault apparently

 

Peter

Apparently Varta make these particular batteries and Bosch rebadge them as Varta are cheaper I would be buying Varta. Supposed to be a 5 year guarantee though most battery sellers are quibble merchants.

Yes they are similar to the stop start batteries used in cars as the article I linked too says. But I am thinking heavy discharge overnight then recharge as quickly as possible next day (mix of solar and engine running) not that dissimilar use?

[dccruiser]

Wouldnt something like this do the job? 125 amps each . 500 cycles and from the forums these explorers seem to get a good write up

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/120734871401?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

 

 

Rick

[Detling]

Regarding the Stop part of their use, whilst 100 amps maybe with headlights on, will be no more than 5 minutes before the engine restarts (my land rover 2 minutes max in daylight). Your overnight is over 12 hours long (fridge) so not the same at all. I doubt if the stop/start system allows the battery to drop below 85%.

[bottle]

Apparently Varta make these particular batteries and Bosch rebadge them as Varta are cheaper I would be buying Varta. Supposed to be a 5 year guarantee though most battery sellers are quibble merchants.

Yes they are similar to the stop start batteries used in cars as the article I linked too says. But I am thinking heavy discharge overnight then recharge as quickly as possible next day (mix of solar and engine running) not that dissimilar use?

 

This describes how most of us (liveaboards) use our batteries and so 'Deep cycle/Heavy duty/Traction' batteries are required.

 

I do not think the batteries you are thinking of are 'deep cycle' in fact i believe them to be 'short cycle'. ie. heavy load for a short time and then recharge quickly.

 

Deep cycle etc. can be charged 'quickly' that is how most of us do it, run engine or generator/charger for a couple of hours to get the bulk in then use the solar to get the absorption part done.

[b0atman]

I have the Varta silver dynamic since April.

5 x 96Amphour station bank.

I have discharged to 200 amps out and still had a reading of 12.3v.

What is max voltage I can adjust to safely for quick recharge ?

[WotEver]

I have the Varta silver dynamic since April.

5 x 96Amphour...

As far as I can see from Varta's site they don't make one. Did you mean 95Ah perhaps? Or type 96?

 

Either way they also don't appear to publish charging voltages although a telephone call could probably sort that out.

[Naughty Cal]

In Jaguars Varta are the original battery and are very long lived not so Bosch which we are reluctant to fit as they always try to wriggle out of the warranty so unless that bit has improved I would be reluctant to fit them my own S4 is a case in question from my Merc it is 2 years old and wont hold a charge but they wont change it my fault apparently

 

Peter

We are currently using Varta's for our domestic batteries, however the boat and both cars are running Bosch starter batteries. The car starters have been on for about three years the boat starter has been on for six. All of which appear to still be in good order.

[WotEver]

I bought a 9 year old Jag S-Type with the original Varta battery still going strong.

[Tony Brooks]

Wouldnt something like this do the job? 125 amps each . 500 cycles and from the forums these explorers seem to get a good write up

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/120734871401?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

 

 

Rick

 

Typical Ebay nonsense

 

How many noticed that the 120 Ah were at what looks like the 100 hour rate. If that's right, and no way of knowing with Ebay, the they are probably around 80 or 90 at the 20 hour rate.