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Has anyone tried "traction" batteries?


The Maestro

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I think they are used in fork lift trucks and someone has suggested they might help my battery problem. My third set are failing after less than two years, and I never seem to have enough charge to last overnight. Perhaps I'm power greedy, but some boaters seem to manage in spite of using a hairdryer[!]

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Before 'tem 'as knows' come back with loads of details -

  • Do you have enough generating power to charge up a large battery bank. As I guess - from your comments (?) - you'd need 7- 800 Ampere hours and an alternator rated at 175 amps to run what your statement implies.
  • OTOH it may be that your battery capacity and probably more importantly your alternator are inadequate.
  • You're probably not charging your existing batter capacity fully, so adding more will only make matters worse. It doesn't make any difference which type you go for.
  • Folks will say 'you need to do a power audit' Can you supply the following details:-
  • Engine size
  • Alternator rating or model name
  • Current battery numbers and capacity of each
  • What equipment do you have running:-
  • Hair dryer!
  • washing machine
  • TV
  • electric fridge
  • what sort of lighting and how many

As the post above says 'it looks like a charging problem'

 

I won't apologise - it's difficult to be helpful if we don't have some appreciation of your needs.

It's a bit like some that come on here and say 'I want to buy a boat' and don't give any further explanation.....

 

 

 

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Have had 6x2v traction batteries for 10 years and can still do a full wash and dry in the machine with no problems.

 

 

Yes, but you probably did a power audit and charging calculations so know how long you need to run for to charge your batteries. It is also likely that you have shoreline or significant solar charging.

 

The OP really gives very little indication of his electrical use and none about his charging regime. The comment about the hair dryer makes me side with Sabcat on the evidence we have.

 

To the OP - if you do not charge batteries enough you will wreck an expensive set almost as fast as a cheap set.

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Before 'tem 'as knows' come back with loads of details -

  • Do you have enough generating power to charge up a large battery bank. As I guess - from your comments (?) - you'd need 7- 800 Ampere hours and an alternator rated at 175 amps to run what your statement implies.
  • OTOH it may be that your battery capacity and probably more importantly your alternator are inadequate.
  • You're probably not charging your existing batter capacity fully, so adding more will only make matters worse. It doesn't make any difference which type you go for.
  • Folks will say 'you need to do a power audit' Can you supply the following details:-
  • Engine size
  • Alternator rating or model name
  • Current battery numbers and capacity of each
  • What equipment do you have running:-
  • Hair dryer!
  • washing machine
  • TV
  • electric fridge
  • what sort of lighting and how many

As the post above says 'it looks like a charging problem'

 

I won't apologise - it's difficult to be helpful if we don't have some appreciation of your needs.

It's a bit like some that come on here and say 'I want to buy a boat' and don't give any further explanation.....

 

 

 

Sorry, I only intended to invite comments about traction batteries so hadn't thought to put other details in. I have:

 

95amp alternator, Sterling battery management unit, Smartguage. 5x110ah open wet batteries. My power audit came to 250 ah needed between charges. Also 300 watts of solar panels which work well when there is sun.

 

The batteries were new when the Smartguage was fitted. They were kept above 50% and often reached 100%, but in spite of this after a few months a hydrometer showed that the 100% reading was misleading, most cells were not green or only just.

 

Any further thoughts would be appreciated.

A PS. The Sterling was fitted after I discovered the discrepancy between the hydrometer and Smartguage readings.

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And the most (?) commonly overlooked part is actually how l-o-n-g it takes to get the last 20% of the charge needed into the battery bank (a few hours), and if you don't, the longevity of the battery bank is instantly severely compromised. Naturally this assumes you have a powerful enough generating device to get the bulk of the charge back into the bank quickly enough so that the rest of the time that the engine is able to run can be spent with it topping up the last 20%...... and ii's the battery bank itself that will determine at what rate it will accept charge, not the size of the alternator !

 

With the figures you have just added, I would say you should be thinking of doubling the alternator size ( e.g. an Iskra 175 as found on e.g. Beta 43 engines) and running it for a few (several) hours a day to put that amount of charge back in. The solar, whilst very helpful, can not be relied upon on a daily basis, especially in winter and on cloudy days, as those days it will contribute little. Did the power audit suggest you were using 250 Ah, (which is a lot overnight), as if so you will need to put back in some 375 Ah, and the battery bank will only be able to receive a few 10s of amps charging current for the last 20%. Even if the current alternator is delivering the full 95 amps in the bulk phase it will need about 6 or more hours to put 375 Ah into the bank

 

One thing that will greatly help is to run any (all) power hungry operations (e.g. cooking, hairdrying etc) with the engine running, which will likely save greatly on the Ah sucked out of the bank and having to replace them with 1.5 times that amount when you come to re-charge them..

 

Nick

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Sounds like the usual sulpation and lack of equalisation. Loads of stuff on this forum so not really worth doing it again here.

If you are off grid then 2 years from a set of standard Leisure is GOOD, they are usually rated for 300 cycles (down to 50%).

 

............Dave

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Sounds like the usual sulpation and lack of equalisation. Loads of stuff on this forum so not really worth doing it again here.

If you are off grid then 2 years from a set of standard Leisure is GOOD, they are usually rated for 300 cycles (down to 50%).

 

............Dave

Or did he mean 3 sets within 2 years?

 

Anyway, to the OP I would recommend semi-traction batteries with the good old Trojan T105s being good value for money. They are midway in price between leisure batteries and full traction cells so if you do have a fundamental charging problem, you won't kill a very expensive set.

Edited by nicknorman
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Sorry, I only intended to invite comments about traction batteries so hadn't thought to put other details in. I have:

 

95amp alternator, Sterling battery management unit, Smartguage. 5x110ah open wet batteries. My power audit came to 250 ah needed between charges. Also 300 watts of solar panels which work well when there is sun.

 

The batteries were new when the Smartguage was fitted. They were kept above 50% and often reached 100%, but in spite of this after a few months a hydrometer showed that the 100% reading was misleading, most cells were not green or only just.

 

Any further thoughts would be appreciated.

A PS. The Sterling was fitted after I discovered the discrepancy between the hydrometer and Smartguage readings.

 

 

(Aside: Hooray A Classical Musician!! Take care. there aren't many around (hare at any rate...)

 

Ahem; to continue. Methinks the above highlight tells all. I'm not an expert as from the beginning I decided not to fit Lead acid batteries because of the maintenance issues.

 

50% even for really good quality semi-traction batteries is something you should only do occasionally (twice a year...). with ordinary batteries perhaps 'never' - else you'll end up with your current situation.

 

Trojan batteries ( ? - semi traction) are the next best best - I say 'next' 'cos they're expensive; hence your query. You've probably seen threads on here about used forklift truck batteries.

The problem is - if any, that new ones will cost you all your appendages and used ones could be a bit of a pig in a poke - perhaps others on here might be a bit more encouraging. To me the idea seems worth some research.

Anyway they are / can be very heavy and very bulky - do you have room? (looking at the boat - probably "yes").

 

Regardless of any of the above - you MUST increase your charging capacity. DOUBLE your alternator size...

Can your engine cope with a giant alternator/s ???

 

I'm sure there's enough ammunition for others to shoot at me - but at least it'll get the discussion going.

 

(it's a pity all your samples are midi - 'cos I'd like to have an actual performance...)

 

 

 

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Or did he mean 3 sets within 2 years?

 

Anyway, to the OP I would recommend semi-traction batteries with the good old Trojan T105s being good value for money. They are midway in price between leisure batteries and full traction cells so if you do have a fundamental charging problem, you won't kill a very expensive set.

Thank you, that is very helpful. No, I didn't mean 3 sets within 2 years.

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Thank you, that is very helpful. No, I didn't mean 3 sets within 2 years.

T105s are 6v 225 AH so you put 2 in series to get 12v x 225 AH. Each battery is around £100. So 4 gives you 12v 450AH but you'll probably want 6 to give you 675AH.

 

But as Dave says, 2 years from leisures is quite good for a live-aboard.

Edited by nicknorman
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(Aside: Hooray A Classical Musician!! Take care. there aren't many around (hare at any rate...)

 

Ahem; to continue. Methinks the above highlight tells all. I'm not an expert as from the beginning I decided not to fit Lead acid batteries because of the maintenance issues.

 

50% even for really good quality semi-traction batteries is something you should only do occasionally (twice a year...). with ordinary batteries perhaps 'never' - else you'll end up with your current situation.

 

Trojan batteries ( ? - semi traction) are the next best best - I say 'next' 'cos they're expensive; hence your query. You've probably seen threads on here about used forklift truck batteries.

The problem is - if any, that new ones will cost you all your appendages and used ones could be a bit of a pig in a poke - perhaps others on here might be a bit more encouraging. To me the idea seems worth some research.

Anyway they are / can be very heavy and very bulky - do you have room? (looking at the boat - probably "yes").

 

Regardless of any of the above - you MUST increase your charging capacity. DOUBLE your alternator size...

Can your engine cope with a giant alternator/s ???

 

I'm sure there's enough ammunition for others to shoot at me - but at least it'll get the discussion going.

 

(it's a pity all your samples are midi - 'cos I'd like to have an actual performance...)

 

 

 

Wow, that was a surprise! A few of the songs are real performances, and some are on YouTube complete with visuals.

 

To get back on topic, I am now much clearer about my problem. After speaking to battery suppliers/manufacturers boat engineers, etc I have got more and more confused. Thanks for your help.

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T105s are 6v 225 AH so you put 2 in series to get 12v x 225 AH. Each battery is around £100. So 4 gives you 12v 450AH but you'll probably want 6 to give you 675AH.

 

But as Dave says, 2 years from leisures is quite good for a live-aboard.

Thanks, It's great to have specific advice. If I get T105s can I hope for a longer life from them?

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Thanks, It's great to have specific advice. If I get T105s can I hope for a longer life from them?

Yes. Hopefully! I didn't get on well with leisures but am only at year 1 with my Trojans, but they are still at 100% of their original capacity. I think dmr has had his for 3 years now and they are still fine.

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I have full traction batteries one bank is now over 9 years old still going strong. With batteries you really do get what you pay for but you do need to have a good charging regime otherwise expensive batteries will be wasted. I have 1kw of solar panels which do the job in late spring to early autumn in the winter my whispergen tops up the missing solar as well as doing the central heating. I would not fit anything else other than full tractions as I am a liveaboard with a lot of electric toys

 

Peter

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I have full traction batteries one bank is now over 9 years old still going strong. With batteries you really do get what you pay for but you do need to have a good charging regime otherwise expensive batteries will be wasted. I have 1kw of solar panels which do the job in late spring to early autumn in the winter my whispergen tops up the missing solar as well as doing the central heating. I would not fit anything else other than full tractions as I am a liveaboard with a lot of electric toys

 

Peter

I'm a bit like that, TV and SKY+ on all evening and an electric blanket to warm the bed, everthing else is fairly trivial apart from the fridge. What sort/make/model are your batteries?

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I had a set of proper traction batteries on my last boat when I bought it. They were 2 volt and weighed 54 kilos each with 8mm wide plates inside. The real mcoy. The previous owner had no idea about batteries and had a mass of halogen lights and in 5 years had not improved the batteries. They were ok ish but rather than spend four hundred thousand pounds per battery if one failed I simply binned em and rewired for the usual cheapo stuff.

In short proper traction are the best but you do have to be anal to look after them properly like any other battery.

 

Tim

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I'm a bit like that, TV and SKY+ on all evening and an electric blanket to warm the bed, everthing else is fairly trivial apart from the fridge. What sort/make/model are your batteries?

I just went on the internet found a local supplier of traction batteries he had a canceled order so I bought six 2volt cells complete with leads and bolts at a reduced price.Tthe first bank was 720 ah the second was bigger and they were not much more expensive than Trojans.

 

Peter

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I had a set of proper traction batteries on my last boat when I bought it. They were 2 volt and weighed 54 kilos each with 8mm wide plates inside. The real mcoy. The previous owner had no idea about batteries and had a mass of halogen lights and in 5 years had not improved the batteries. They were ok ish but rather than spend four hundred thousand pounds per battery if one failed I simply binned em and rewired for the usual cheapo stuff.

In short proper traction are the best but you do have to be anal to look after them properly like any other battery.

 

Tim

Thats part of the fun isn't it? It seems to me that most people who invest in posh batteries (like me) are also the type that like messing about with stuff, monitoring and charging correctly. We have to, because we've bought expensive batteries and we know they can easily be destroyed.

 

Those who don't give a damn just upload a new set of CackMaxes every year, for a fraction of the price, short on capacity but equally short on recharge times, so they're happy.

 

Oh dear. I seem to have wandered again. Nurse!!

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Thats part of the fun isn't it? It seems to me that most people who invest in posh batteries (like me) are also the type that like messing about with stuff, monitoring and charging correctly. We have to, because we've bought expensive batteries and we know they can easily be destroyed.

 

Those who don't give a damn just upload a new set of CackMaxes every year, for a fraction of the price, short on capacity but equally short on recharge times, so they're happy.

 

Oh dear. I seem to have wandered again. Nurse!!

 

I totaly agree. We are all anal about some things. For me batteries are beyond boring so I buy cheap, never check em but in fairness still get at least two years out of them so I am happy. I understand other people ( my bro in law amongst them ) love tinkering with them but its too much like being at work for me.

Now ask me about how I look after my superb v8 jag engine...............now that is worth messing with biggrin.png

 

Tim

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We have had two 6v 242Ah US Batteries on our boat for ten years and they are still performing well. They are designed to power electric vehicles like Golf Carts and fork lift trucks etc, but also work well in boats.

 

At £145 each (delivered) they are not cheap but the last set lasted something like 15 years before they started to loose charge when left for several weeks. They were sonated to someone who could charge them more frequently, and served them for several more years.

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We have had two 6v 242Ah US Batteries on our boat for ten years and they are still performing well. They are designed to power electric vehicles like Golf Carts and fork lift trucks etc, but also work well in boats.

 

At £145 each (delivered) they are not cheap but the last set lasted something like 15 years before they started to loose charge when left for several weeks. They were sonated to someone who could charge them more frequently, and served them for several more years.

 

That is indeed impressive. However, I got the impression that Trojans were rated at least as good, for a much reduced price. Tanya Batteries told me their Trojans were cheap because they sold bucketloads and bought them by the Megaton.

 

I remember Trojans being way more expensive than they are now. Possibly they ARE of similar quality, but just more popular?

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