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C&RT - A National trust for the waterways?? read on .....


Laurence Hogg

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I sincerely hope that the Llangollen is one of those canals in receipt of maintenance. As CRT's boasted 'jewel in the crown' the state of some of its banks were parlous to say the least, and a bit of oil on some of the lock paddles wouldn't have gone amiss! That the lockies operating the flight where boaters enter the Llangollen were being told to record the name of every boat using the locks, not to check up on boaters but to check up on their own workload with a view to the necessity to continue to employ them, tells me CRT is not a trust for boaters!

 

Maintenance on that canal has been woeful for years, hence the repeated embankment collapses, I wouldn't say its the jewel in the crown more the flaw.

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Alan not sure what point you are trying to make. I am not ashamed of the fact that I was a big supporter of CRT in the early days. Like many I was hopeful that at last we were going to get an organisation that were genuinely interested in the canal system. Unfortunately we have ended up with an organisation that think all they need to do is push out a lot of PR and all will be ok. I speak to a lot of boaters on a daily basis either in person or via social media who like myself feel boaters have been let down badly. Changes are made with no real thought, mooring times are changed on the basis of a few pints in a pub. Promises are made but never happen.

I think you only need to look at Laurance's post, a man to my knowledge who has volunteered and worked hard for the past 40 years to work with both BW and CRT.

We now have an organisation with a management structure that is all over the place and is simply not fit for purpose.

And we have chuggers at £9 per hour on the towpaths with some blatantly telling porkies re the reason for their need to add 'friends' for CRT! Misrepresentation is I think the word - according to some did you know that the government has dumped our canals and CRT alone has stepped in, out of the goodness of its heart, to save them from dereliction? That money is now needed by CRT if the canals are to be saved. Bunkum! No wonder Laurence (and perhaps John too,) are having second thoughts!

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If you read a lot of the posts and threads on the forum you will inevitibly read many from those who are just starting out in boating; perhaps they are seeking advice on buying their first boat, or becoming a liveaboard boater. Do you accept that whilst you might have deep reservations about many aspects of boating lifestyle; others don't necessarily hold these at such great a level, and are much more positive in general.

 

Perhaps it is a time for consideration and reflection, and you might conclude that the boating lifestyle is not for you.

 

 

 

 

 

PS If its just CRT, there's always the Bridgewater canal and EA/Broads etc.

I am a long-time lurker on this forum, but, as I do my boating on the Broads, I just read the posts with great interest but have never posted before. However, to suggest that moving to the Broads will somehow avoid the types of perceived problems there are with CaRT is, frankly, nonsensical. I do not wish to hi-jack this thread, so please don’t jump all over me, but some facts need to be stated. All is not rosy on the Broads.

 

The Broads Authority have just declared the Broads to be a national park, despite the fact that Defra repeatedly tell them that it is not legally a national park, having been incorporated by totally separate and individual legislation.

 

There is a Facebook group called 'Protect the Broads we are not a National park', which has nearly 500 members.

 

There is an online petition here http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/74305 that gives a flavour of the discontent (please sign it if you see fit).

 

The latest criticism is that one of the members of the Authority was ineligible to apply for appointment, but that didn’t seem to matter to Defra, who appointed him any way. Details can be read here http://www.the-norfolk-broads.co.uk/viewmessages.cfm?Forum=48&Topic=36279&srow=0&erow=8

 

I’ll now don my tin hat and retire to my bunker.

Edited by Paladine
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There is a Facebook group called 'Protect the Broads we are not a National park', which has nearly 500 members.

Having lived the vast majority of my life in or very near a National Park I am wondering what they feel they need protected from?

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Do they allow CCing on the broads?

Yes, after a fashion. There isn't actually any bye law that covers CCing. Subject to the normal toll, BSS certificate and insurance, there is no control on how far a boat may or may not travel in a given time. The only restriction I can think of is where to moor. If you have your own mooring or have access to private moorings, you can come and go as you please. However, if you wish to make use of the 24 hr free moorings provided by the Broads Authority, then you can only moor for a maximum of 24 hours and cannot return to the same mooring (or one withing 500 metres of that mooring) for another 24 hours.

 

Although it is not common, there are a small number of boats used as live-aboards 24/7, which have no home mooring.

Having lived the vast majority of my life in or very near a National Park I am wondering what they feel they need protected from?

The Sandford Principle.

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The Sandford Principle.

It doesn't seem to have caused a problem up here during the last 40 years. In fact I have never noticed any change in the last 40 as opposed to the previous 23 (since the park was formed). However I suppose if you haven't experienced life with the principle it may be something you are wary of.

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It doesn't seem to have caused a problem up here during the last 40 years. In fact I have never noticed any change in the last 40 as opposed to the previous 23 (since the park was formed). However I suppose if you haven't experienced life with the principle it may be something you are wary of.

Forgive my ignorance, but I don't know where "up here" is, so I can't comment on your situation. As far as the Broads are concerned, conservation, enjoyment by the public and the navigation are equally weighted, unlike in national parks where conservation is given priority over the enjoyment by the public (in the event of an irreconcilable conflict). There is no national park that has a responsibility towards a navigation.

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Forgive my ignorance, but I don't know where "up here" is, so I can't comment on your situation. As far as the Broads are concerned, conservation, enjoyment by the public and the navigation are equally weighted, unlike in national parks where conservation is given priority over the enjoyment by the public (in the event of an irreconcilable conflict). There is no national park that has a responsibility towards a navigation.

Lake District the lakes may not be navigations but they are heavily navigated.

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Lake District the lakes may not be navigations but they are heavily navigated.

This is going well off topic, for which I apologise. Unlike the Broads Authority, which has a statutory duty to maintain the navigation, the Lake District NPA has no statutory duty to maintain the lakes.

 

You mention the last 23 and 40 years. Well, just as a couple of instances, about 30 years ago the Limefitt Caravan and Camping site appealed against a planning decision. The Lake District NP web site reports that "In his decision, the Minister applied the sandford principle..."

 

More recently, in 2013, an application by South Lakeland District Council to replace and improve jetties and a café, redevelop a car park and winter boat storage facilities, provide additional public jetty spaces and a boat/bike/canoe hire centre in Ferry Nab was refused, despite considerable support from local organisations. One of the objections quoted the Sandford Principle.

 

The principle has been used in NPs and will be used again. Broads boaters don't need it and don't want it.

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This is going well off topic, for which I apologise. Unlike the Broads Authority, which has a statutory duty to maintain the navigation, the Lake District NPA has no statutory duty to maintain the lakes.

 

You mention the last 23 and 40 years. Well, just as a couple of instances, about 30 years ago the Limefitt Caravan and Camping site appealed against a planning decision. The Lake District NP web site reports that "In his decision, the Minister applied the sandford principle..."

 

More recently, in 2013, an application by South Lakeland District Council to replace and improve jetties and a café, redevelop a car park and winter boat storage facilities, provide additional public jetty spaces and a boat/bike/canoe hire centre in Ferry Nab was refused, despite considerable support from local organisations. One of the objections quoted the Sandford Principle.

 

The principle has been used in NPs and will be used again. Broads boaters don't need it and don't want it.

Both those were sensible decisions and haven't had any effect that I can see apart from on the individual business owners.

 

I suspect that without such protection the Broads in 40 years (or may be even less) will not be as attractive to tourists as it is now. Even with the Sandford Principle much of Southern Lakeland is becoming unattractive to a large number of visitors.

 

We get then now preferring the northern lakes where I am.

 

I wish the Broads luck. I will probably never be there again so it won't affect me.

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Both those were sensible decisions and haven't had any effect that I can see apart from on the individual business owners.

 

I suspect that without such protection the Broads in 40 years (or may be even less) will not be as attractive to tourists as it is now. Even with the Sandford Principle much of Southern Lakeland is becoming unattractive to a large number of visitors.

 

We get then now preferring the northern lakes where I am.

 

I wish the Broads luck. I will probably never be there again so it won't affect me.

In terms of comparisons, of the 15 members of the national parks family, the Broads is the smallest in area (much of which is under water), comes 4th in the visitor numbers league, 3rd in the number of visitor days and 2nd (to the Lake District) in terms of visitor spend. The river tolls paid by boat owners provides 47% of the Broads Authority's income. What ain’t broke don’t need fixing.

 

Thank you for your good wishes.

 

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