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Potters cabin bike locker?


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Newbie question re bike storage: I'm in the initial stages of planning a 57 foot trad stern bespoke Narrowboat build for full time solo continuous cruising. I will be using an electric assisted mountain bike (pedelec) pulling a cycle trailer as my primary off boat transport. I want the bike to be easily accessible, but secure when I'm away from the boat. I am currently thinking of building a 'bike shed' into the boat design, and I'm wondering if there is a reason why I shouldn't. Let me explain...

 

I am planning on a tug design, with Boatmans/guest cabin, engine/laundry room, bath and small galley area, and the bow saloon doing double duty as lounge and main bedroom. This to be achieved by the bed rolling two thirds under the tug deck during the day (bottom third forming a sofa), rather in the style of a boat I read about called Electraglide. The tug deck above, with a hinged cratch cover could then offer dry under tarp storage in winter, and a summer sitting out space.

 

My thought for bike storage is to put a 'Potters Cabin' forward of this tug deck and as far into the bow area as possible (the boat will be gas free so I don't have to worry about a gas locker.) I'd intend this 'cabin' to be the same height as the living quarters, and the bike would store vertically in it, so would need only to be inches wide at its narrowest, broadening to slightly more than the width of the handlebars., forming a vertical bike locker/shed. I had in mind a curved, 30s style 'streamlined' effect, like an Airstream caravan, or the Mallard locomotive, with the tunnel lamp set into the locker and a charging point for the pedelec inside.

 

My main concern, as a complete newbie to the practicalities of liveaboard issues, is whether having such a cabin presents any operational difficulties, particularly for a solo boater? It will make accessing the bow stanchion trickier, for example. All thoughts/opinions eagerly awaited...

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Welcome to the forum. I don't know what a potters cabin is, but I don't see any reason why you should be able to build a bike storage locker on the front deck. I know some people carry motorbikes there so why not. You'll just need to make sure access to your bow rope isn't obstructed but that's easy enough if you bring the rope back to an accessible place. Then it's just a question of making sure the rope doesn't snag on anything, I have a 2 bow ropes and 2 stern ropes on my widebeam for each side, so you could consider that option for the bow.

 

As a liveaboard why would you want a gas-free (or gas-deficient) boat? If a gas system is installed and operated properly the safety issues are negligible and the benefits are enormous.

Edited by blackrose
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A potter's cabin is, as far as I know, a small forecabin of the kind often used for children to sleep in on working boats. I have heard the term occasionally but don't know its origin - but somebody on here will!

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A potter's cabin is, as far as I know, a small forecabin of the kind often used for children to sleep in on working boats. I have heard the term occasionally but don't know its origin - but somebody on here will!

I think that boats from the Potteries had fore cabins built not in the foreend itself, and thus being tapering, but in the wider space at the start of the hold, so were more rectangular and larger in shape, as the raw materials for pottery like Feldspar were comparatively dense and so didn't need so much hold space.

 

SAM_4181%252520Unspoilt%252520by%252520P

 

This image, from NB Seyella's blog, shows the idea- the boat in the foreground has the pottery style, more set back fore cabin, but Tewkesbury behind has the FMC style fore cabin right in the fore end, being smaller and more tapering,

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It's perfectly feasible to put a fore cabin on to a tug style boat, but you wouldn't want it to stand as high as the rest of the superstructure, I'm not sure how well a streamlined shape would sit with the other lines of the boat, remember that at some future point you may wish to sell and anything " quirky " could deter potential buyers. If you are considering a tug deck, you would gain little space with a deck board ( cratch ) and covers, most tugs look better, in my opinion, without. We have the settee/bed option on Resolute and have found it to work well. Bulkhead rings on the front bulkhead are a useful alternative point for mooring lines, easily added at the building stage. I've been a tug enthusiast for much of my boating life, PM me if I can help further.

 

Cheers

 

Dave

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Hi all, and thanks for the responses so far. Yes, Fadetoscarlet, that's the sort of thing I had in mind, only taller, equal in height to the main cabin in fact so a hinged cratch can go straight and level from the front of the saloon to the roof of the potters cabin. Ropes either side makes sense, and the potters cabin can be stepped in from the gunwales either side by 4 inches or so, to leave room to manoeuvre past to the front of the bow, with handrails on either side of the roof.

 

Hi Blackrose, re why gas free? I didn't want to wear out my welcome in a single post re the wacky ideas I'm trying not to have ruin a future resale price, but long story short, this will be a Hybrid Marine diesel electric boat, so will have enough power to run an induction hob, and there will be an Epping multifuel stove in the Boatmans cabin and a stovetop oven for a Morso Squirrel in the saloon to supplement/substitute that. I'm aiming for something very um, 'independent', with the ability to operate away from facilities for extended periods (extra capacity water and fuel tanks, massive battery bank, extensive solar), and the charging capacity and under-way power generation of the Hybrid Marine setup seems to make the necessity for a gas ring or two redundant. I'd rather use the locker space for something else. Still, I'm open to all suggestions at this point... :)

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Have a steel cratch as per a working boat, with a gunwale height tug deck under. You can then just wheel the bike in and lock the door. Keep in mind manhandling bikes on boats is not fun, and an electric one weighs a ton. You don't want to faf about with it.

 

Another point is if you run your engine to power a hob or anything else, your going to piss off everyone with the noise. "All electric" boats are a pain outside a marina.

Edited by onionbargee
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Hi Blackrose, re why gas free? I didn't want to wear out my welcome in a single post re the wacky ideas I'm trying not to have ruin a future resale price, but long story short, this will be a Hybrid Marine diesel electric boat, so will have enough power to run an induction hob, and there will be an Epping multifuel stove in the Boatmans cabin and a stovetop oven for a Morso Squirrel in the saloon to supplement/substitute that. I'm aiming for something very um, 'independent', with the ability to operate away from facilities for extended periods (extra capacity water and fuel tanks, massive battery bank, extensive solar), and the charging capacity and under-way power generation of the Hybrid Marine setup seems to make the necessity for a gas ring or two redundant. I'd rather use the locker space for something else. Still, I'm open to all suggestions at this point... smile.png

 

Well, you'll be able to run an electric induction hob, but even with a massive battery bank, given the inefficiencies of converting chemical energy to thermal energy (battery to hob), you probably wouldn't want to be doing that without running the engine at the same time, which means you can't use the induction hob after 8pm for any extended periods. You could light your Epping stove, but is it really worth the trouble in the middle of summer when you don't want that heat? A huge battery bank won't necessarily get charged with solar panels in winter, so additional fuel will have to come from somewhere, whether that's gas bottles or diesel.

 

I don't think you gain any independence by not having gas but you do lose a lot of flexibility.

 

Personally I like to have as many on-board systems as possible, so eliminating gas doesn't make any sense to me. I don't have any experience of a hybrid marine diesel system, but I don't see any reason why it should preclude a boat from having LPG too.

Edited by blackrose
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Hi Blackrose, I agree absolutely. Probably should have mentioned that the boat is also going to have one of these, doing double duty for diesel rads and after dark hot drinks -amongst other things. Very much a fan of multiple redundant systems. Wait till I start on the composting toilet... :)

 

http://www.heritagecookers.co.uk/range_cooker_uno.htm

 

As I say, didn't want to bore everybody with my obsessively detailed plans on a first go round :)

Edited by svetlovska
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Hi onion bargee,

 

If I've understood what you're describing, does this mean the tug deck area is permanently under (steel) cover? If so, I can see that would work, but I particularly want the flexibility of removable tarps over an open tug deck so in winter I can use it to store/hide low value high bulk items like coal bags, and in summer, roll up the tarps and use it as an onboard outside seating /dining area.

Edited by svetlovska
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Hi Blackrose, I agree absolutely. Probably should have mentioned that the boat is also going to have one of these, doing double duty for diesel rads and after dark hot drinks -amongst other things. Very much a fan of multiple redundant systems. Wait till I start on the composting toilet... smile.png

 

http://www.heritagecookers.co.uk/range_cooker_uno.htm

 

As I say, didn't want to bore everybody with my obsessively detailed plans on a first go round smile.png

Heritage cookers are a tad expensive to run Leslie a friend of mine has one and on reflection she wouldnt have bothered. I am just installing a Rayburn royal solid fuel which are equally expensive to run but I do have a lot of wood so that helps. I also have a large solar array and 1500 ah of battery bank, but in the winter time I have to run the whispergen for power and hot rads for at least a couple of hours daily. The composting toilet works really well, just ignore the knockers on here that have never even seen one never mind use one.

 

Peter

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Hi Peterboat,

 

Thanks for taking the time to respond. Interested in which toilet you went with, and any detail you have on the range cooker. Mine will be purely coal or diesel, (no access to wood!) so your views on what makes a sensible choice for year round flexibility would be appreciated, on the forum or via pm. Thanks again!

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IIRC Nantwich Narrowboats built a very fancy tug style boat 2-3 years back which had a hold for a couple of bikes that was completely hidden below deck level. I think there was some sort of electric lift which raised them up for access. It was designed to be very secure as they were expensive bikes. It was at Crick Show.

Possibly over complex for your needs but the Nantwich Canal Centre lot are friendly and would probably give you some info on it.

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Hi Blackrose, I agree absolutely. Probably should have mentioned that the boat is also going to have one of these, doing double duty for diesel rads and after dark hot drinks -amongst other things.

 

http://www.heritagecookers.co.uk/range_cooker_uno.htm

 

Deisel fired, but won't it get hot when you want to cook on it and make the boat too hot in summer, or doesn't it work like that?

 

Anyway, whatever other systems are available, personally as a liveaboard I wouldn't be without gas. I really don't see the point of substituting gas for more sophisticated systems.

Edited by blackrose
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Dunno. One of the things I need to look into, clearly. My current rhythm of life is muesli and booze in the evenings, main meal at lunch, and relatively little cooking, so - dunno. More research required, obviously... wink.png

 

Yes, I would do. I wouldn't rule out gas at this stage just because someone's said "gas-free" and it sounds like something you'd want to be rid of.

 

I've been on this forum for nearly 10 years and I don't think I've ever heard of a gas explosion on a canal boat (really hope I'm not speaking too soon!) I'm sure it's happened but it's very rare. On the other hand, flat batteries are a common occurrence.

Edited by blackrose
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Thinking about it, you mightn't need an extra cabin at all.

 

If you rotate the handlebars 90 degrees, a bike's only about 1' wide by just under 6' long- as Starman mentions, you could have a narrow slot shaped locker at the front of the tug deck, and have the bike on a rising plate or vertical arm with a clamp for the frame like a forklift (maybe motorised, to be very Thunderbirds!) and store it completely under the tug deck, with a neat lid to cover it. It wouldn't take up much length, but could be easily repurposed by a future owner as a coal bunker, or similar, if they didn't want to store a bike in it.

Edited by FadeToScarlet
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Thunderbird 2 stylee? I love the idea! But... Sounding a bit more complicated than the gussied up shed I started out with. (Plus don't forget I'm intending to have most of the space below the tug deck occupied by the bed...) Still: something to think about. Maybe a reverse version of those lift up racks they have at railway stations...

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A bike isn't 1 " wide, the bottom bracket is at least 100 mm , plus pedals. ( You can get folding pedals ) rotatable handle bar stem ??? Plus you need high security or any decent bike it will go for walkies to cash converters.

 

Sounds like the OP has been dreaming about the perfect boat, without having any experience of boating, all the fancy ideas die after a few months aboard. Keep it simple is the way forward, then add to it over time.

Edited by onionbargee
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A bike isn't 1 " wide, the bottom bracket is at least 100 mm , plus pedals. ( You can get folding pedals ) rotatable handle bar stem ??? Plus you need high security or any decent bike it will go for walkies to cash converters.

Sounds like the OP has been dreaming about the perfect boat, without having any experience of boating, all the fancy ideas die after a few months aboard. Keep it simple is the way forward, then add to it over time.

 

Fade to scarlet said 1' not 1" a difference of 11".

 

Neil

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I think that boats from the Potteries had fore cabins built not in the foreend itself, and thus being tapering, but in the wider space at the start of the hold, so were more rectangular and larger in shape, as the raw materials for pottery like Feldspar were comparatively dense and so didn't need so much hold space.

 

SAM_4181%2520Unspoilt%2520by%2520Progres

 

This image, from NB Seyella's blog, shows the idea- the boat in the foreground has the pottery style, more set back fore cabin, but Tewkesbury behind has the FMC style fore cabin right in the fore end, being smaller and more tapering,

Blimey, did that boat go to the Black Sea? I didn't hear about that.

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