CRT enforce modern license display for historic boats

[c c]

I have just received a letter from CRT stating it is a legal requirement for our two historic boats (Badsey & Angel) to display on both sides, their modern index number. In 79 years, Badsey has always displayed its original number "G.U.12674" and never the modern number 68474. BW were perfectly happy with this.

Both boats display their licenses.

Apparently this enforcement is because "other canal users MAY ASSUME that a boat is unlicensed".

What is especially galling is the phrase "without this we can't dredge as much, keep the locks working.............etc.etc."

As I opened the letter Badsey was high and dry on the undredged mud because once again, CRT just will not repair the bottom lock at Hillmorton to keep the water in the pound overnight.

Do any other historic boat owners display two five figure numbers each side of their boat?

[carlt]

If you are displaying your licence then you are displaying your index number.

 

That said I displayed my index number by leaning it against the deckboard where it was visible from both sides though I never displayed my licence.

[b0atman]

surely CRT could cross reference or use your original number ?

[alan_fincher]

You seem to have created multiple posts?

 

This thread refers to the issue, though not originally specifically for historic boats.

 

I'm not aware of many that display a BW/CRT index number on both sides, though one or two do, I think, and others have just a single one on the front of the engine room.

 

You are lucky if you have only a 5 digit number - "Sickle's" was allocated late enough to be 6 digits.

 

What I object to most is the tone of the communication, which somehow manages to brand us as not looking like we are paying our way, even though they have clearly had no problem identifying the boats, and establishing that we are fully licensed.

 

I do accept that by the letter of the relevant acts we should be visibly displaying a number that BW/CRT have allocated for the boat, but frankly there are surely better things for them to go after. If we owned a "Willow", a "Kingfisher" or even a "LLamedos", then they might have a point - it is not hard to work out that there are not multiple "Badseys" or "Sickles".

Edited February 4, 2015 by alan_fincher

[b0atman]

This is probably leading upto no licence to display as with cars.

[c c]

You seem to have created multiple posts?

 

This thread refers to the issue, though not originally specifically for historic boats.

 

I'm not aware of many that display a BW/CRT index number on both sides, though one or two do, I think, and others have just a single one on the front of the engine room.

 

You are lucky if you have only a 5 digit number - "Sickle's" was allocated late enough to be 6 digits.

 

What I object to most is the tone of the communication, which somehow manages to brand us as not looking like we are paying our way, even though they have clearly had no problem identifying the boats, and establishing that we are fully licensed.

 

I do accept that by the letter of the relevant acts we should be visibly displaying a number that BW/CRT have allocated for the boat, but frankly there are surely better things for them to go after. If we owned a "Willow", a "Kingfisher" or even a "LLamedos", then they might have a point - it is not hard to work out that there are not multiple "Badseys" or "Sickles".

Alan, I did fight my way through the 8pages of the similar thread but I started this as a new subject because I am asking if CRT no longer accept the historic number which in our case was issued by G.U. and do other historic boat owners agree to display the modern number beside the historic number.

[koukouvagia]

I must admit I think it's a bit silly. For fifteen years I managed perfectly well not displaying the modern number. However, when Dave Moore re-lettered the butty I rather liked having lots of of his elegant sign written numbers all over the boat so I asked him to add the licence as well.

CART now has five different numbers to chose from. That should shut them up

 

[alan_fincher]

Alan, I did fight my way through the 8pages of the similar thread but I started this as a new subject because I am asking if CRT no longer accept the historic number which in our case was issued by G.U. and do other historic boat owners agree to display the modern number beside the historic number.

 

I doubt, unless you have evidence otherwise, that they actually treated Badsey's "12674" Gauge Number as an alternative to a BW / CRT Index number.

 

It is unlikely, surely, to be recoignised in any CRT system relating to boat licensing or boat data checking, surely?

 

Far more likely that until now they have not been obsessive about their numbers being displayed, (but I'm happy to be corrected if you can prove they have openly agreed to use a gauge number as an accepted alternative to a BW/CRT index number).

 

A lot of historic boats don't anyway carry their gauge numbers, (neither of ours do). Perhaps we can persuade them to recognise the health registration details, which both of ours do have displayed!

 

Or if it is an ex FMC boat,perhaps they can perm any of the following

 

EDIT: To acknowledge beaten to the point by its owner!

 

Edited February 4, 2015 by alan_fincher

[pete harrison]

When I owned BADSEY (and BARNES) the aluminium index number plates were attached to the wooden beam at the back end of the fore deck, one at each end - and B.W.B. were happy with that arrangement

 

edit - The paper licence was displayed in the engine room portholes.

Edited February 4, 2015 by pete harrison

[Derek R.]

One of the 'official' pressed aluminium number plates was always missing with TYCHO, so one got screwed onto the forward facing blue top - visible from both sides unless you were dumb enough to try and see it from behind the front. Nothing said about it ever.

 

 

The licence is a separate item, displayed both sides, and does include the registration No.

But pen pushers like to justify their existence.

 

So when re-painted, I got Nick Harvey to add the BW number on each side at the back end:

 

Edited February 4, 2015 by Derek R.

[pete harrison]

When I owned BADSEY (and BARNES) the aluminium index number plates were attached to the wooden beam at the back end of the fore deck, one at each end of the beam - and B.W.B. were happy with that arrangement which was a very common application on 'historic' narrow boats in the 1980's

The paper licence was displayed in the engine room portholes.

[Martin Megson]

This does sound a bit silly. Who cares what other users think as long as CRT know its licensed.

Vintage cars are allowed to use the old black and white number plates as the bright yellow ones would spoil the style. Same should apply to historic boats in my opinion.

[Timleech]

This does sound a bit silly. Who cares what other users think as long as CRT know its licensed.

Vintage cars are allowed to use the old black and white number plates as the bright yellow ones would spoil the style. Same should apply to historic boats in my opinion.

 

I can't see any logic to that argument. The numbers are the same. I don't believe CRT are quibbling about painted numbers, just that 'their' number must be displayed.

 

Tim

[c c]

 

I can't see any logic to that argument. The numbers are the same. I don't believe CRT are quibbling about painted numbers, just that 'their' number must be displayed.

 

Tim

the traditional Grand Union index number that Badsey has carried for 79 years is a different 5 figure number to the one CRT require to be displayed.

[c c]

I must admit I think it's a bit silly. For fifteen years I managed perfectly well not displaying the modern number. However, when Dave Moore re-lettered the butty I rather liked having lots of of his elegant sign written numbers all over the boat so I asked him to add the licence as well.

CART now has five different numbers to chose from. That should shut them up

 

Now that looks very fine.

Sorry that I seem to have created multiple threads for this subject. Not sure how. Perhaps a moderator would combine them all together.

[Timleech]

the traditional Grand Union index number that Badsey has carried for 79 years is a different 5 figure number to the one CRT require to be displayed.

 

Yes, I'm well aware of that, & I don't see the problem with displaying it (edit for clarity - the CRT number) in some way, but I was actually answering post No4, which was trying to compare this with number plate requirements for older cars where there is an absolute requirement to display the actual registration number.

 

Tim

Edited February 4, 2015 by Timleech

[alan_fincher]

the traditional Grand Union index number that Badsey has carried for 79 years is a different 5 figure number to the one CRT require to be displayed.

 

Pedant Alert

 

There is actually very little evidence of boats like Badsey carrying their GU gauging numbers in the late 1960s, at least, and pictures of the boats like Badsey repossesed from Willow Wren CTS and dumped on the Wendover Arm would suggest that at that stage probably none of them had a gauge number painted on them.

 

As the practice of gauging boats had died out by then in favour of much simpler charges to carrying companies, the gauge number would presumably by then have been irrelevant?

 

Unless, of course someone can find pictures that say otherwise.

 

Uber Pedant Alert (!)

 

Badsey doesn't actually seem to have been gauged until February 1937, so has only had that gauge number for 78 years, I think!

Edited February 4, 2015 by alan_fincher

[DHutch]

You seem to have created multiple posts?

 

Duplicate topics merged.

 

This thread refers to the issue, though not originally specifically for historic boats.

 

Separate but related topic left.

 

 

Daniel

[Guest]

Wonder how long it will be before Index numbers on boats HAVE to comply with a certain standard font and size and all those with lovely hand painted numbers have to get them re-done or get the crappy plastic plates like we have.

 

A bit like motor vehicles have to.

Edited February 4, 2015 by The Dog House

[Machpoint005]

This does sound a bit silly. Who cares what other users think as long as CRT know its licensed.

Vintage cars are allowed to use the old black and white number plates as the bright yellow ones would spoil the style. Same should apply to historic boats in my opinion.

 

There is a legal requirement for vehicles registered after 2001 (roughly) to use the current font and size, nothing else is legal.

There was a requirement for vehicle registered after 1973 (even more roughly) to use white front and yellow rear plates.

Older vehicles are not subject to those requirements and usually have their original plates or a creditable imitation thereof.

 

None of this is relevant to historic boats, though, as there is a requirement to display licence, name and number which probably did not exist when the boat in question was built.

 

I fail to see why the current number can't be used, though. It's waste of CRT resources to have special cases.

In my opinion a single 68474 on each side would look a lot better than the choice of five different numbers exhibited by Bardsey, but the owner has every right to his own opinion.

Wonder how long it will be before Index numbers on boats HAVE to comply with a certain standard font and size and all those with lovely hand painted numbers have to get them re-done or get the crappy plastic plates like we have.

 

A bit like motor vehicles have to.

 

The more people take the p1ss, the more likely it becomes.

[Guest]

 

The more people take the p1ss, the more likely it becomes.

 

Well I don't think having your index number hand painted constitutes 'taking the piss'. As long as it's legible so what?

Edited February 4, 2015 by The Dog House

[Ray T]

I have just received a letter from CRT stating it is a legal requirement for our two historic boats (Badsey & Angel) to display on both sides, their modern index number. In 79 years, Badsey has always displayed its original number "G.U.12674" and never the modern number 68474. BW were perfectly happy with this.

Both boats display their licenses.

Apparently this enforcement is because "other canal users MAY ASSUME that a boat is unlicensed".

What is especially galling is the phrase "without this we can't dredge as much, keep the locks working.............etc.etc."

As I opened the letter Badsey was high and dry on the undredged mud because once again, CRT just will not repair the bottom lock at Hillmorton to keep the water in the pound overnight.

Do any other historic boat owners display two five figure numbers each side of their boat?

 

 

 

DSCF2354

 

My photo BTW taken 12th Aug 2009 @ 17:08

Edited February 4, 2015 by Ray T

[Machpoint005]

 

Well I don't think having your index number hand painted constitutes 'taking the piss'. As long as it's legible so what?

 

It is taking said substance if there are lots of other numbers too, wasting the time of whoever needs to read the real one.

 

There is a legal requirement for vehicles registered after 2001 (roughly) to use the current font and size, nothing else is legal.

There was a requirement for vehicle registered after 1973 (even more roughly) to use white front and yellow rear plates.

Older vehicles are not subject to those requirements and usually have their original plates or a creditable imitation thereof.

 

None of this is relevant to historic boats, though, as there is a requirement to display licence, name and number which probably did not exist when the boat in question was built.

 

I fail to see why the current number can't be used, though. It's waste of CRT resources to have special cases.

In my opinion a single 68474 on each side would look a lot better than the choice of five different numbers exhibited by Bardsey, but the owner has every right to his own opinion.

 

The more people take the p1ss, the more likely it becomes.

 

My mistake - Hampton.

As far a Badsey [sic] is concerned, what is the difference between 68474 and 12674 (apart from 55800)?

[Guest]

 

It is taking said substance if there are lots of other numbers too, wasting the time of whoever needs to read the real one.

 

Well a 'blind man on a galloping horse' could spot the correct number on the example pictured earlier..If they can't spot the right one they simply aren't up to their job.

 

I don't see a problem myself.

Edited February 5, 2015 by The Dog House

[Machpoint005]

Not the most prominent one, though, is it?