Sunk

[snigsnig]

I've never seen a boat sunk quite so quickly in a marina. Very sad sight :-(

 

 

http://goo.gl/uIvVWT

 

 

[bigste]

Sad situation and costly though the depth means it should rise up easily enough.

[Guest]

Sad indeed. Do we know the cause?

 

The FB page just referred to 'making sure boats are winterised properly' but that seems a bit vague.

[Theo]

I really feel for the owner. Theodora's experience coulf have been as bad as tis or worse if it were not for 5 friends who I didn't know I had!

 

Nick

[b0atman]

Very vague as water tank contents will not sink a boat .

Was boat plumbed into mains water ?

[John Williamson 1955]

Possibly a slow leak (Stern gland?) that caused an unnoticed slow sinking over several days or weeks until the engine vents got to the waterline. After that, it takes minutes.

 

One reason I'm getting a keel cooler fitted. I can lose the massive holes in the hull.

[scrabble]

Always seems to be the same way, boats with leaky stern glands or boats left unattended over a matter of days/weeks if not been bilged, the stern goes down first then once the drainage holes for the bilge, sinks etc along the boat go under then down she goes

[John Williamson 1955]

There was one boater on the London Boaters page recently asking if it was okay to leave his boat with a leaking stern gland and no working bilge pump unattended for a few days....

[Stilllearning]

In the small boatyard where I used to work and live it was part of the job to keep an eye out for any boat that seemed to be getting low in the water, so that the owner could be contacted. That way the boat didn't sink and the yard could charge for fixing whatever it was that had caused the problem. It should be part of the service in any yard surely?

[John Williamson 1955]

If it's a residential mooring, there may not be boatyard staff there.

[Sea Dog]

In the small boatyard where I used to work and live it was part of the job to keep an eye out for any boat that seemed to be getting low in the water, so that the owner could be contacted. That way the boat didn't sink and the yard could charge for fixing whatever it was that had caused the problem. It should be part of the service in any yard surely?

 

I'd rather hoped any boatyard or marina would do that, and so too would our neighbours, so that a settling boat is dealt with before the vents submerge. Sadly, this is the third thread here in the last week or so which suggests this isn't the case in some boatyard/marinas.

 

We don't yet know the circumstances of course, but we are all keeping a weather eye, aren't we?

[Naughty Cal]

Yes. It would seem that some yards are much better than others on this matter.

 

Ours do check the boats and on the odd occasion when there have been boats in trouble the yard staff have been quick off the mark at sorting the problem or quickly lifting the boats even out of normal working hours.

[snigsnig]

No-one knows for sure what happened, they have started trying to raise it today by pumping it out (not much luck so far), but as you would expect the marina is full of theories!

 

Its a fairly old cruiser stern, the general consensus is that it had been taking on water for a while and then reached whatever entry point in the hull (large engine vents perhaps?), but at the same time nobody noticed, which is strange as there are a lot of liveaboards at this marina.

 

Its a very big marina, incidentally, and there are plenty of staff around but as I say no-one noticed it, staff or other moorers. I have heard of a case at another marina where staff actively didn't intervene in a similar situation due to 'health and safety' concerns, but I can't imagine that would be the case here, plus most of the staff are also boaters so could empathise at how horrible this situation would be.

Edited January 30, 2015 by snigsnig

[James Owen]

Raw water cooled engine or rather the pump/filter/pipework that hasn't been drained or isolated...add a good dollop of freezing temperatures and some frost damage...perhaps??

[Pete & Helen]

Would a low boat necessarily be noticed? Boats all seem to sit at different levels, some almost looking like they are about to sink but found to be their normal position.

Maybe we should have a mark on the stern that shows that water has been taken on or a device that indicates externally to others? It would take the guess work out.

 

Of cause there is nothing better than greasing your stern gland and having an automatic bilge pump with a battery and solar panel to keep it topped up.

[DHutch]

Its a fairly old cruiser stern, the general consensus is that it had been taking on water for a while and then reached whatever entry point in the hull (large engine vents perhaps?), but at the same time nobody noticed, which is strange as there are a lot of liveaboards at this marina.

Hard to know isnt it.

 

I have often wondered how noticeable this would be, a listing boat is very obvious, but they seem to often down surprisingly level.

 

Emilyanne really quite good freeboard, about 6-8inches or so to the first deck/sink drains and the weedhatch and mudbox and a further foot before it starts pouring in over the top. At which point I would hope the staff and liveaboards would notice before she went down unless something really fairly catastrophic failed in the middle of the night.

 

A lot of boats however, only have 3-4 inchs to to the engine air vent, and even if I was walking past daily I am not sure I would notice a boat that was a few inches down on day to the next.

 

 

Daniel

[blackrose]

Possibly a slow leak (Stern gland?) that caused an unnoticed slow sinking over several days or weeks until the engine vents got to the waterline. After that, it takes minutes.

 

One reason I'm getting a keel cooler fitted. I can lose the massive holes in the hull.

I thought the OP said it sank quickly?

[DHutch]

I thought the OP said it sank quickly?

Yes, but would that not also fit with the boat going down slowly in an undetectable amount, before sinking quickly.

 

 

Daniel

[blackrose]

Yes, but would that not also fit with the boat going down slowly in an undetectable amount, before sinking quickly.

 

 

Daniel

I guess so, if nobody noticed.

 

My boat has a watertight bulkhead between the engine space and the cabin. Im pretty sure I could fill the engine space with water up to the air intakes and the rest of the boat would keep it afloat.

[John Williamson 1955]

I guess so, if nobody noticed.

 

My boat has a watertight bulkhead between the engine space and the cabin. Im pretty sure I could fill the engine space with water up to the air intakes and the rest of the boat would keep it afloat.

Yours is in what my experience says is a minority on the canals. Old working boats with an engine room amidships have normally had the bulkheads separating the engine room, bed 'ole and cargo space hacked about to provide walk through access. Many older cruisers have the engine under a table in the centre of the cabin and so on. Most modern narrowboats that I've seen have the engine bay floor at the lowest point of the hull and use it as a sump to drain the cabin bilge.

 

It's a matter of perceived risk. Most canal boat builders assume the boat will almost always be in water that won't come above the watertight bits of the hull even if they do suddenly fill, and even if there's a problem, the bank, with its shallow bit is only ever a few metres away.

 

Also, it's hard to tell that a boat you're not especially interested in is half an inch lower now than when you last looked, and the expectation is that it's not gone lower, so you reset what you expect next time you look. The subtle sign that mine is lower is the hole in the rudder, which should be a fraction of an inch above water, but there's nothing else that says "I'm sinking, help!!!" until the engine cooling vent gets worryingly close to the water. Maybe we should all write "I'm afloat" in chalk on the normal waterline.

Edited January 30, 2015 by John Williamson 1955

[Tony Dunkley]

There's always a band of dried muck or sediment just above the normal waterline of a pleasureboat floating in smooth, flat water, unless it's just come off the dock after blacking or painting. If that line or band of dirt or discolouration isn't visible, particularly round the stern end, then the boat's making water.

[DHutch]

There's always a band of dried muck or sediment just above the normal waterline of a pleasureboat floating in smooth, flat water, unless it's just come off the dock after blacking or painting. If that line or band of dirt or discolouration isn't visible, particularly round the stern end, then the boat's making water.

In the dark, with a jetty between you and the boat?

[blackrose]

Yours is in what my experience says is a minority on the canals. Old working boats with an engine room amidships have normally had the bulkheads separating the engine room, bed 'ole and cargo space hacked about to provide walk through access. Many older cruisers have the engine under a table in the centre of the cabin and so on. Most modern narrowboats that I've seen have the engine bay floor at the lowest point of the hull and use it as a sump to drain the cabin bilge.

 

It's a matter of perceived risk. Most canal boat builders assume the boat will almost always be in water that won't come above the watertight bits of the hull even if they do suddenly fill, and even if there's a problem, the bank, with its shallow bit is only ever a few metres away.

 

My boat is a Liverpool Boat and they probably built more cruiser stern narrowboats in the last 15 years than any other builder, so watertight bulkheads separating the engine room from the cabin really can't be that uncommon.

 

I also think that the second part of what you said is based on a very odd assumption. I don't know if it reflects a somewhat limited degree of experience? I know it's called a canal forum, but some of us do venture out of the ditches and don't have such a "canal-centric" attitude.

 

There are loads of narrowboats on rivers all over the country. My last mooring was at least 15ft deep and this one is about 10ft. Anyway I don't agree that most builders assume the boat will almost always be in shallow water. The builders I've met at boat shows certainly didn't assume that.

Edited January 30, 2015 by blackrose

[5thHorseman]

I am not sure I would notice a boat going down at the stern, particularly if it was bow in on a pontoon bay.

Makes me think I will moor stern on in the future

Edited January 30, 2015 by 5thHorseman

[Bloomsberry]

I am not sure I would notice a boat going down at the stern, particularly if it was bow in on a pontoon bay.

Makes me think I will moor stern on in the future

 

And hope somebody notices ?

 

A better idea would be to put in a float switch on the bilge pump with a permanent supply and keep the batteries fully charged.