Lister LPWS Calorifier Kit - how to fit

[SiFi]

GENUINE LISTER LPW/LPWS CALORIFIER CONNECTION KIT (MARINE ENGINES) 750-62700

 

I've bought this connection kit on eBay but there are no instructions! Has anybody fitted one of these, I can probably work it out but some help would be appreciated, thanks

[RLWP]

Could you post some pictures of what you have please? I can probably identify the parts from that

 

Richard

[martyn 1]

As Richard has said some pics would be useful to guide you as to what bits you have and where they go. I Think I also have some pictures of a few LPW's that have been through our workshop with the kit fitted which should hopefully show it all in place.

 

The easy way to solve this is if you have the parts manual, the section on calorifier shows the orientation of the bits, well at least the version I have does. If I remember when I'm near the manual I will scan the appropriate pages.

 

What year is your engine as your kit is for post 1998 engines.

Edited January 29, 2015 by martyn 1

[RLWP]

What year is your engine as your kit is for post 1998 engines.

 

Good point, I have recently sent out a pre 1998 engine, which had a very different set up using brass barbs fitted to one of the cooling pipes

 

Richard

[SiFi]

I've not worked out how to upload pictures so here is a link to the eBay page, the engine is circa 1992,

 

 

[martyn 1]

I will dig out some better pictures as this may be a little confusing otherwise, but basically can you confirm your water pump looks like this with the two hexagonal blanking plugs? (the large ones above and below the open pipe on the pump)

 

Or does the lower plug not exist and you have a 1/2" ish hose tail with a rubber cap on it pointing at about 45 degree towards the flywheel in the location of the lower plug?

Edited January 29, 2015 by martyn 1

[Eeyore]

GENUINE LISTER LPW/LPWS CALORIFIER CONNECTION KIT (MARINE ENGINES) 750-62700

 

I've bought this connection kit on eBay but there are no instructions! Has anybody fitted one of these, I can probably work it out but some help would be appreciated, thanks

Have a look at http://www.marineengine.co.uk/Canalstar%20front%20&%20rear%20February%202012(1).pdf .

 

It shows the later arrangement with the calorifier feed routed from below the thermostat to the back of the water cooled exhaust manifold. and then from the front of the manifold to the top connection of the calorifier. The return can be made via a "T" into the main return from the keel tank.

 

Of course it also shows the position of the connection from below the thermostat; from where you can made direct connection to the calorifier if want to do it the "conventional" way.

Hope this helps.

Steve (Eeyore)

[SiFi]

Thanks Martyn and Steve, I'm away now until Monday I'll have a closer look then and get back to you, cheers

[SiFi]

Here is a photo of my 1992 LPWS4,

 

I would be interested to know what I'm looking at and how I can tap the hot water for a calorifier. I can see the temperature sender.

 

This the Lister Calorifier Kit I was sold, part code 750-62700 (marine engines)

I suspect from what I've been told that this will not be useful for my early engine 1992

 

It would be good to have some advice about this, thanks

[martyn 1]

Right,

 

Remove the temp sender and fit the block from the new calorifier kit and refit the sender into the side of it that currently has the blanking plug. You may need an adapter if the thead in that hole and your sender differ. The pipe outlet from here would be your hot feed to the calorifier.

 

Then remove the blanking plug in the t-piece above the throttle and replace with a hose tail and this is your return from the calorifier.

 

Martyn

 

P.S from the engine number your engine is 1991 not 92 :0) 41 - 4 decades and 1 years since 1950, 00301 - the 301st engine of that year, LPWS4 model 4 cylinder, A anticlockwise rotation ,042 Build spec, in your case a genuine marine unit.

Edited February 6, 2015 by martyn 1

[Eeyore]

Very much as Martyn says, but there is one thing I would like to see before you start.

Can you please take picture of just the metal part of the "kit" you have been sold. I suspect that the rubber hose is pushed onto a small pipe/spigot; which is not obvious from the pictures taken so far. Have a close look at the image from my previous link, I think the little black blanking plug is still visible behind the alternator adjusting arm.

 

If I'm correct you will have to remove the hose from below the thermostat to give clearance when fitting the new adaptor. This is not a bad thing, as taking the metal pipe to a bench with a vice is a safer way to remove the plug that has been in that "T" piece for over 22 years!

Regards

Steve (Eeyore)

[SiFi]

Thanks Martyn/Steve I can see now what is needed. It does look like the sender is not going to relocate without an adaptor and I will need a fitting for the calorifier return to replace the plug in the 'T'. Can anyone help with the fitting/adapters and/or let me know the likely thread sizes. The Lister is very new to me so I don't even know whether they will be imperial or metric. Cheers!

 

PS yes Steve the rubber tube is a push fit

[RLWP]

Metric

 

Richard

[jonathanA]

The temp sender is 1/8 npt for sure don't know whst size the holes are in the engine and can't quite work out why these are different to the sender you removed. Anyway you can get adapters for a couple of quid on eBay

[SiFi]

Thanks Jonathan "NPT" makes a whole lot of difference there are 1000s on eBay!

[Eeyore]

Thanks Martyn/Steve I can see now what is needed. It does look like the sender is not going to relocate without an adaptor and I will need a fitting for the calorifier return to replace the plug in the 'T'. Can anyone help with the fitting/adapters and/or let me know the likely thread sizes. The Lister is very new to me so I don't even know whether they will be imperial or metric. Cheers!

 

PS yes Steve the rubber tube is a push fit

Sorry, your last picture went to your gallery page; and I've only just spotted it.

Could you flip it over so that we can see what is currently the bottom in the two images posted so far.

I'm expecting to see a (female) threaded hole with the same thread size as the male end; which is how the current item in my link is.

The ebay seller is pushing it a bit in describing this as a complete kit; I would definitely expect to receive a jubilee type clip for the pushed on hose.

You will need to "trial fit" the adaptor without any seals/thread tape to check the alignment of the hose. Getting the hose aligned at the same time as the adaptor being tight can be achieved using modest amounts of thread tape if its tapered thread; or different thickness sealing washers if its a parallel thread. Sorry can't tell which it is from the pictures.

Regards

Steve (Eeyore)

[martyn 1]

I'm expecting to see a (female) threaded hole with the same thread size as the male end; which is how the current item in my link is.

 

You will need to "trial fit" the adaptor without any seals/thread tape to check the alignment of the hose. Getting the hose aligned at the same time as the adaptor being tight can be achieved using modest amounts of thread tape if its tapered thread; or different thickness sealing washers if its a parallel thread. Sorry can't tell which it is from the pictures.

 

All the holes/threads in the metal part are visible in the picture above in this thread (the one with the hose on, the male thread and the female thread for the sender that in the pic has a blanking plug in it. worth noting the hose tail is not removable from the main hex block.

 

the male thread that screws into the water pump is tapered so a little thread tape and screw it in until orientated correctly and tight.

[SiFi]

having had a closer look I can see that the sender is fitted to the water pump with a reducing adapter. The sender with the adapter removed looks like it will fit into the female thread of the calorifier kit and the kit's male thread will happily fit where the sender/adapter has been removed. It makes sense because otherwise the flow to the calorifier would be limited to the 1/8" NPT thread size of the sender.

[Eeyore]

 

All the holes/threads in the metal part are visible in the picture above in this thread (the one with the hose on, the male thread and the female thread for the sender that in the pic has a blanking plug in it. worth noting the hose tail is not removable from the main hex block.

 

the male thread that screws into the water pump is tapered so a little thread tape and screw it in until orientated correctly and tight.

Thanks for that Martyn.

They do use a mixture of tapered and parallel, and I now see that the adaptor on the sender has now come to light. Interestingly the parts manual lists a copper washer to seal between the adaptor and sender (but not necessarily the sender and adaptor on SiFis engine!)

These engines have changed a lot over the years. Mine was from the 1980s, marinised at LPs plant at Trupp in the Stroud valley, a very early engine. The OPs would be an early engine, the part he bought would be for a recent engine and my link to that illustration would be for a current engine; and of course thats the simple view!

I'm slightly envious of the fun you must have identifying and sourcing parts for rebuilds, a bit like one of my favourite jobs from back in the day.

Looks like the current version has evolved to have the sender in the other end in order to allow room for the second alternator install; but still retains the now redundant plug in the side. Almost certainly a modification carried out on existing stock.

Looks like SiFi is well on his way to sorting his calorifier install.

Regards

Steve (Eeyore)

[SiFi]

one question that concerns me is whether the calorifier circuit is taking heat before the thermostat or after? Neither seems ideal to me but it would be good to know.

[martyn 1]

It will be in the circuit before the thermostat so it will be using the heat even as the engine warms up long before the stat opens. It's not uncommon in some installations we have seen with vintage engines where at canal speed the stat never opens as the calorifier is sapping enough heat to basically do the job of the keel tank.

[SiFi]

Thanks Martyn, I wonder whether some add a lower temperature thermostat on the calorifier circuit to allow the engine to get to temp sooner or is it generally thought unnecessary. I am thinking of fitting a manual valve instead.

[RLWP]

Thanks Martyn, I wonder whether some add a lower temperature thermostat on the calorifier circuit to allow the engine to get to temp sooner or is it generally thought unnecessary. I am thinking of fitting a manual valve instead.

 

You are overthinking this. Every car takes the water for the heater from before the thermostat*, as does nearly every boat

 

Richard

 

* I thought I'd get the air-cooled engine comment in first

[martyn 1]

 

* I thought I'd get the air-cooled engine comment in first

[SiFi]

I had not realised that heaters take their heat before the thermostat, I fitted the calorifier kit this afternoon it was a doddle. Now I need to drill a couple of holes through the bulkhead