Lister LPW4s wiring and a smartbank question!

[dccruiser]

I have just ordered a Smartguage and smartbank for my recently aquired narrowboat along with a Pro Reg D...

It has a Lister LPW4S Canalstar fitted and a standard 70amp alternator i am going to upgrade to either a 90amp prestolite i have which already has extra wiring for a PDAR or if i can find one, fit a bracket and a second alternator.

On reading about the smartbank i also read about alternator wiring on the sterling site and they say to lower losses substatialy it is a good idea to wire the alternator output direct and have a feed from the domestic battery bank to operate the starter solenoid and heaters...

I think my boat may already be wired like this and i wondered if anyone with a canalstar could confirm this, the reason i ask is a couple of times i have had a bad connection on my cabin battery isolator and as a consequence my engine has failed to turn over and my cabin lights have flickered.

A jump lead between battery positives, (starter and cabin) has made it work perfectly again.

There is also a grey enclosure marked lister with various wires going in and out, does anyone know what this is?

Basically, am i best to rewire from scratch? Alternnator currently pushes out 14.5 volts according to the gauge on the control panel but the current cabin batteries are totally goosed which is why i thought a pro reg D was a good idea in case it has overcharged and cooked them, any words of wisdom or experience with the lpw4s canalstar wiring much appreciated

 

Rick

[RLWP]

The grey box contains relays and circuit breakers

 

Richard

[dccruiser]

Thanks Richard, more specifically, what is their purpose? bear in mind i have been used to an old BMC with a heater plug relay and not a lot else! ... and do they have any bearing on the charging circuit from the alternator

 

 

Rick

Edited January 26, 2015 by dccruiser

[John Williamson 1955]

If you tell me which control panel you have, I can scan the appropriate pages from the Lister LPW manual.

As far as directly wiring the alternator goes, all wiring should be as short as possible and of sufficient thickness. But...

 

The Boat Safety Scheme requires an isolator on the positive connection between the battery and the rest of the system, and a negative (Earth) cable running directly from the engine earth to the battery, as it is forbidden to use the hull as an earth return on the 12 volt system. There should only be a single link between the hull and the 12 volt system. It's also a lot better if you have space and can afford it to have separate starter and leisure batteries, linked only when charging either by a manual or automatic link.

[Arthur Brown]

I'm very suspicious of ANY system that demands BOTH battery banks to be full to start the engine. We protect the starter battery for starting the engine, we don't want to fail because the house stack is flat -which is probably the most common battery problem.

[dccruiser]

If you tell me which control panel you have, I can scan the appropriate pages from the Lister LPW manual.

 

As far as directly wiring the alternator goes, all wiring should be as short as possible and of sufficient thickness. But...

 

The Boat Safety Scheme requires an isolator on the positive connection between the battery and the rest of the system, and a negative (Earth) cable running directly from the engine earth to the battery, as it is forbidden to use the hull as an earth return on the 12 volt system. There should only be a single link between the hull and the 12 volt system. It's also a lot better if you have space and can afford it to have separate starter and leisure batteries, linked only when charging either by a manual or automatic link.

Hi John, the panel doesnt show a model number will try and find some more info off the engine this weekend.

I wasnt intending on sharing any connections between the two banks, i am just unsure of what is existing and whether i will be better starting from scratch or using what is there, but before i can do anything i need to trace everything out unless someone familiar with the LPW4S electrics can give me a heads up

 

Rick

[RLWP]

What instruments does your panel have? That should identify it

 

Richard

[dccruiser]

I'm very suspicious of ANY system that demands BOTH battery banks to be full to start the engine. We protect the starter battery for starting the engine, we don't want to fail because the house stack is flat -which is probably the most common battery problem.

This is the way all my previous boats have been wired , hence me questioning it and wanting more information to restore it to this state before adding all the extra electrical equipment

Rick

What instruments does your panel have? That should identify it

 

Richard

the panel just has the rev clock with hour counter and the key switch to the right with the ignition and heater lights along the bottom which are blacked out until live

 

Rick

[RLWP]

That's it. That's the Marine Standard Electric Start Panel, which matches wiring diagram 10.5

 

Richard

[dccruiser]

That's it. That's the Marine Standard Electric Start Panel, which matches wiring diagram 10.5

 

Richard

Thank you for that Richard, does anyone have a copy of the said diagram please

 

Rick

[RLWP]

yes, and John Williamson above has already volunteered to scan them for you

 

Richard

[dccruiser]

If you tell me which control panel you have, I can scan the appropriate pages from the Lister LPW manual.

 

As far as directly wiring the alternator goes, all wiring should be as short as possible and of sufficient thickness. But...

 

The Boat Safety Scheme requires an isolator on the positive connection between the battery and the rest of the system, and a negative (Earth) cable running directly from the engine earth to the battery, as it is forbidden to use the hull as an earth return on the 12 volt system. There should only be a single link between the hull and the 12 volt system. It's also a lot better if you have space and can afford it to have separate starter and leisure batteries, linked only when charging either by a manual or automatic link.

Hi John if you could scan me pic 10.5 i would appreciate it

 

cheers

 

Rick

[dccruiser]

I guess John is busy, does anyone else have this diagram please as i would ideally like to study it before the weekend.

 

Rick

[RLWP]

Yes, I'll try and scan it for you before the weekend

 

Richard

[martyn 1]

Here you go

[John Williamson 1955]

Sorry about the delay. I'm blaming real life and Facebook.

 

 

Hope these help.

[dccruiser]

Thank you very much gentlemen that is superb, I can now suss out how to integrate all of my new wiring and understand what is going on with what is existing

 

Rick

[RLWP]

To be honest, none of that should make any difference to what you want to do. You'll probably find the alternator output is wired to the starter motor positive, and then a cable runs to the battery isolator. The Smartgauge instructions are asking you to remove the link from the alternator to the starter and connect directly to the batteries

 

Richard

[jonathanA]

Yep I'd agree also can't understand the logic of connecting solenoid and glow plugs to the domestics?

[homer2911]

I have just ordered a Smartguage and smartbank for my recently aquired narrowboat along with a Pro Reg D...

It has a Lister LPW4S Canalstar fitted and a standard 70amp alternator i am going to upgrade to either a 90amp prestolite i have which already has extra wiring for a PDAR or if i can find one, fit a bracket and a second alternator.

On reading about the smartbank i also read about alternator wiring on the sterling site and they say to lower losses substatialy it is a good idea to wire the alternator output direct and have a feed from the domestic battery bank to operate the starter solenoid and heaters...

I think my boat may already be wired like this and i wondered if anyone with a canalstar could confirm this, the reason i ask is a couple of times i have had a bad connection on my cabin battery isolator and as a consequence my engine has failed to turn over and my cabin lights have flickered.

A jump lead between battery positives, (starter and cabin) has made it work perfectly again.

There is also a grey enclosure marked lister with various wires going in and out, does anyone know what this is?

Basically, am i best to rewire from scratch? Alternnator currently pushes out 14.5 volts according to the gauge on the control panel but the current cabin batteries are totally goosed which is why i thought a pro reg D was a good idea in case it has overcharged and cooked them, any words of wisdom or experience with the lpw4s canalstar wiring much appreciated

 

Rick

Re your second alternator idea - the standard 70amp alternator on my lpws4 was forever burning out, so often that I bought a spare so that I was never without. I have never looked back since Oxley Marine near Wolverhampton fabricated a bracket and fitted a second, 90amp alternator, which now charges my bank of 5 leisure batteries. I really feel sorry for that original 70amp alternator!

[dccruiser]

Re your second alternator idea - the standard 70amp alternator on my lpws4 was forever burning out, so often that I bought a spare so that I was never without. I have never looked back since Oxley Marine near Wolverhampton fabricated a bracket and fitted a second, 90amp alternator, which now charges my bank of 5 leisure batteries. I really feel sorry for that original 70amp alternator!

That is good to hear ... i have just found a suitable bracket and ordered a 125mm pulley, so i am fitting my 90amp unit to feed the domestics and leaving the 70amp one purely for the engine starter battery, the plan is to use the smartbank to employ both like a VSR when the engine is running and i am using the inverter for larger loads and during heavy charging, my new battery bank is 760 amps made up of 4 x 380amp 6volt cells.

 

Rick