Kedian Engineering Overplating [pics]

[xadmx]

6k lol

[Traveller]

Looks a good job to me, Kedian, and should I ever require any plating work I shall call you. Many years ago we had a 36ft Springer overplated, we had it for a further 10 years and then sold it on. The buyers survey brought up no significant issues. Yes, there are indeed differing opinions re this type of repair :-)

Edited January 16, 2015 by Traveller

[Mitchellmoxo]

Mitch, you're going to put a 1974 Harborough in a hire fleet? Did I read that correctly?

 

Not a fleet i am trying to start a business, why is that an issue?

[alan_fincher]

 

There are many opinions on overplating, but the consensus on this forum that I've read over the years is that replating is the right way to do it.

 

I would disagree.

 

Clearly it is vitally important to get someone who knows what they are doing, and of course people are right to consider the consequences if things are not done to a high standard - however both these are equally true whether you are overplating or replating - a bad welder could obviously cock up either with equal "style".

 

My take is that there are more people persuaded that it is an acceptable practice than those who are not. I would have thought those who think it is never a good idea are in a small minority.

 

There are huge number of 1960s/70s/80s boat now dependant on it, and I sense that in the vast majority of cases "it does what it says on the tin".

 

Both my 1930s boats have a mix of considerable amounts of complete replacement of plates, mixed with smaller amounts of over-plating where that has been deemed the more appropriate fix. I personally am happy with that.

[Timleech]

 

I would disagree.

 

 

Me too, simply because cutting out & replating is simply not a viable option for fully fitted boats in most cases - as Kedian has pointed out, you'd be better off starting with a new hull.

Cutting out & replating undoubtedly makes a better job, and anyone who thinks they have a 'new' hull after doubling up an old one is deluding themselves, but it is certainly a practical way to give a number of years' more life to an old hull.

 

Tim

[blackrose]

 

Cutting out & replating undoubtedly makes a better job, and anyone who thinks they have a 'new' hull after doubling up an old one is deluding themselves...

 

Well that's the point really, and my reading on this subject on the forum over the last 10 years also points to this opinion. Although I accept that this forum doesn't necessarily constitute the authoritative answer.

 

However, if overplating is done because replating isn't practical, is too difficult or uneconomical then that's fair enough, but it's a slightly different issue.

Edited January 16, 2015 by blackrose

[cereal tiller]

 

Well that's the point really, and my reading on this subject on the forum over the last 10 years also points to this opinion. Although I accept that this forum doesn't necessarily constitute the authoritative answer.

 

However, if overplating is done because replating isn't practical, is too difficult or uneconomical then that's fair enough, but it's a slightly different issue.

Agree with both Tim and Alan ,an overplating job is often the most practical course.

Not aware of your welding capabilities Black rose,but, assuming you have Fabrication skills,you must concur that M.R. Kedians work is exemplary?

Nice to see a tidy and obviously meticulous repair such as this one.

 

CT

[MtB]

I agree with Dean. Looks very nicely done and Rachel's comments about the OP's business plan are out of order.

 

Martin also made me two really nice large pigeon boxes, and came down to Reading to fit them. They are lovely, thanks again Martin.

 

 

MtB

 

Another happy customer of KEDIAN

[Starcoaster]

Oh this is interesting, especially the pics.

Is it the same principle to replate a v-hulled boat, such as a Springer, or is it significantly different in cost/technique? (Before anyone starts, I am only asking out of interest as I have a Springer and am a Springer fan, my hull is sound and does not need replating!)

[Mitchellmoxo]

To many hirers a canal boat is a canal boat as mine has already had a new paint job and will be getting fitted out so will seem like a new boat to any hirer. The only difference is probably a louder engine.

 

I currently run a small printing business and exterior cleaning business in the summer, it seems that if you ever want to do something out of the ordinary or different people don't like it for some reason! Or just find negative things to say about it, the amount of times I have mentioned to people on the canal that it's going to be a hire boat and they start saying how I shouldn't do it and it won't be a good idea. Baffles me!! I haven't worked for someone since I left school so am used to it lol

 

I plan to purchase a boat for myself towards the end of the ear providing I have the money and am looking forward to living on the canal, I have spent my hours and a few nights on mine and love it

[cereal tiller]

Oh this is interesting, especially the pics.

Is it the same principle to replate a v-hulled boat, such as a Springer, or is it significantly different in cost/technique? (Before anyone starts, I am only asking out of interest as I have a Springer and am a Springer fan, my hull is sound and does not need replating!)

Not certain,but I would guess that the procedure is the same other from the Springer has a V bottom which would likely necessitate that the base plate section(s) would require a fold in the sheet steel prior to welding?

CT

[Timleech]

Not certain,but I would guess that the procedure is the same other from the Springer has a V bottom which would likely necessitate that the base plate section(s) would require a fold in the sheet steel prior to welding?

CT

 

Apart from the very smallest Springers, it's rather more complex than that.

They generally have a narrow flat section in the centre, then the main part of the bottom is at a shallow angle to the horizontal, then the chine section is nearer vertical then horizontal, & finally the side is (nearly) vertical, so yes, a lot more work.

 

Tim

[cereal tiller]

To many hirers a canal boat is a canal boat as mine has already had a new paint job and will be getting fitted out so will seem like a new boat to any hirer. The only difference is probably a louder engine.

 

I currently run a small printing business and exterior cleaning business in the summer, it seems that if you ever want to do something out of the ordinary or different people don't like it for some reason! Or just find negative things to say about it, the amount of times I have mentioned to people on the canal that it's going to be a hire boat and they start saying how I shouldn't do it and it won't be a good idea. Baffles me!! I haven't worked for someone since I left school so am used to it lol

 

I plan to purchase a boat for myself towards the end of the ear providing I have the money and am looking forward to living on the canal, I have spent my hours and a few nights on mine and love it

Retro is often preferred with canal boats,so you are correct in assuming that the age of the Shell is immaterial.

If you want to go to the extreme,you could always install an antique diesel and put a few dents in it!

CT

[Starcoaster]

Not certain,but I would guess that the procedure is the same other from the Springer has a V bottom which would likely necessitate that the base plate section(s) would require a fold in the sheet steel prior to welding?

CT

 

I should have known that if I mentioned plating and "Springer" in the same breath, you'd pop up!

[cereal tiller]

 

Apart from the very smallest Springers, it's rather more complex than that.

They generally have a narrow flat section in the centre, then the main part of the bottom is at a shallow angle to the horizontal, then the chine section is nearer vertical then horizontal, & finally the side is (nearly) vertical, so yes, a lot more work.

 

Tim

Thanks Tim

have not seen the underwater section of a Venerable Springer which is why I hazarded a guess.

 

The replating would likely be easier if the boat were inverted?

CT

[RLWP]

Not certain,but I would guess that the procedure is the same other from the Springer has a V bottom which would likely necessitate that the base plate section(s) would require a fold in the sheet steel prior to welding?

CT

 

Usually done by using two plates for the keel and futtock plates rather than trying to fold 6mm plate

 

Richard

[cereal tiller]

I should have known that if I mentioned plating and "Springer" in the same breath, you'd pop up!

OK its a fair cop!

CT

Edited January 16, 2015 by cereal tiller

[Keeping Up]

 

Usually done by using two plates for the keel and futtock plates rather than trying to fold 6mm plate

 

Richard

 

What a lovely word that is !

 

Remember the film, Futtocks End ?

[Traveller]

Richard, are the futtock plates the angled ones between the base and the side? If so when mine was re-plated the sheet was formed to include these - starting from the keelson.

Edited January 16, 2015 by Traveller

[bizzard]

Futtocks are really wooden boat terminology and are the bottom-lower sections of the hulls transverse frames. Futtock plates if you like or correctly for wooden boats garboard strakes are the first planks or plates working from the keel outwards. The keelson is inside the boat laid upon the frames and keel.

[Sabcat]

I've got overplated base and uxter plates on my boat. I have absolute confidence in it because I have absolute confidence in the people who did the welding. It wasn't Kedian that did the job but I have never heard anything but good things about the work that comes out of there and I've heard the opinions of people who are basically competitors.

[Martin Kedian]

I have over plated Springer,s very much the same really just different techniques required

Edited January 17, 2015 by Martin Kedian

[Neil2]

As, for once, we have a thread on overplating going with a contributor who clearly has some experience i would be interested in Martin's opinion on one issue in particular.

 

If anyone has ever seen a surveyors report on a boat that needs overplatng, for a start it will usually point out that it is not a recommended practice, but if carried out the surveyor usually recommends that the plates are "plugged" to the original structure of the boat at frequent intervals, so that the extra skin has a close relationship as it were with the framing of the boat. Given that this must add quite a bit to the cost of the job I've often wondered how essential this is?

[Martin Kedian]

This practise is recommended but usualy only done on the base plate as their is concern that it may sag however the downward pressure of the hull stops this it is not a huge amount of work to do plug welding however as for the sides they are only 30 inches heigh and are welded top and bottom do they are close to the hull anyway I am happy to share my experience of welding and fabrication I fell that is what the forum is for I have recieved work through being a member but fell also that it is a two way street I am happy to be of help where possible

Cheers Martin

[Traveller]

As, for once, we have a thread on overplating going with a contributor who clearly has some experience i would be interested in Martin's opinion on one issue in particular.

 

If anyone has ever seen a surveyors report on a boat that needs overplatng, for a start it will usually point out that it is not a recommended practice, but if carried out the surveyor usually recommends that the plates are "plugged" to the original structure of the boat at frequent intervals, so that the extra skin has a close relationship as it were with the framing of the boat. Given that this must add quite a bit to the cost of the job I've often wondered how essential this is?

My surveyor was unusual then in that whilst he advised that the hull required attention (by either over-plating or re-plating) and that any work should be signed off by a surveyor for insurance purposes; he made no reference to plugging or a preferred manner of repair. So we had our old Springer over-plated and then re-surveyed at a discounted rate by the same surveyor. Seems a perfectly sensible approach to me.