Why would you get a survey on a totally refurbed boat?

[scrabble]

Not sure which section to put this in, but i have a few friends who own narrowboats and i mentioned I was on here, and one of my friends is selling his boat to downgrade to a smaller one now him and his partner have seperated. 3 months ago his boat was out the water, the entire hull was replated, given 2/3 coats of epoxy black, the cabin was all repainted, it was rewired inside and out, literally taken back to a bare shell and rebuilt from scratch again, everything is as new (boat was built in 1985 by rugby builders), he spent a fair chunk of his inheritance money on it. It was surveyed when it was removed from the water before the work was done and the only issue was something to do with the stern gland hole rusting and slight pitting below 5mm on the waterline in areas? but apparently it was okay as it was for a while but he still had it overplated (makes no sense to me a newbie) but these were both fixed during the welding it had done. He has had a couple very interested in it, with cash waiting, (aged in there 50s) he has provided them with a disc of over 400 photos, paperwork showing every stage of the rebuild/refit/repaint, with reicepts to proove the welding work (so they could even call and check) all done by reputable companies.

 

He is in a dilemma because this couple are willing to pay the full asking price if the survey doesnt throw anything up, but it means it coming out of the water, something which the couple are paying for along with the survey. He and I cannot understand that if the boat was sound before it came out of the water bar 2 minor issues, has been fully replated, rewired, refitted, blacked, painted and everything, why would someone spend £500 - £600 on a survey and getting it out the water? The second thing he has someone else interested but he is trying to get £3500 off the asking price, but this bloke is happy with the photos he has seen and has cash waiting, but my friend wants his asking price as he is still making a loss at that.

 

So the big question here is, after all the work that has been done to it, with proof, why would someone get a survey done? is it just for peace of mind or are we missing something? The work done can be proved i photos, paperwork and by calling the company who did it, and also if they are going to pay for a survey and everything then surely they are more than likely going to purchase it?

 

Im telling my friend to hold on, but hes getting itchy feet as the marina hes got it cant get out the water for another 3 weeks and he just wants it sold so he can buy another, but im telling him to hold tight as i feel personally the couple will buy it?

 

Like i said it makes zero sense to me so im asking for a friend.

 

Any thoughts?

[matty40s]

you know your friend, and know the work has been done.

The couple don;t.

[Ray T]

The couples money, their choice for their own satisfaction?

[GoodGurl]

Totally agree with matty, if i was buying it i would also want it surveyed.

[nicknorman]

Some work, well quite a lot of work, has been done to this boat. But how has the work been done? ie to an adequate standard, or not. What is the quality of the welding, the electrical installation? Is it compliant with the BSS? There are plenty of cowboys around who charge just as much for their work as a quality workman does. And what is the engine like. Etc etc. The purchasers might or might not have the slightest idea what to look for in a boat (at that age, there's a good chance it is their first boat)

 

If the prospective purchasers came on here, we would all tell them to get a survey! I would regard their desire for a survey as a "good thing" because it means they are serious about the boat.

[MtB]

The overplating could be a right old lash-up. I'd want it surveyed too. A bunch of photos tells the inexperienced buyer NOTHING!

[Neil2]

There are members of the forum who would argue whether a professional survey is necessary, but very few who would advise buying a boat that you haven't seen out of the water.

[scrabble]

I guess its just I and my friend know there is 100% nothing wrong with that boat, he has severe ocd and is very picky and no expense has been spared as it was funded with inheritance money so it wasnt like he was strapped for cash, everything has been done by reputable boat company/companies. Its like buying a brand new car and then taking it for an MOT inspection a month later, doesnt seem to make any sense to me but if they want to pay for the survey/lift out i guess its down to them. Just find it odd thats all but each to their own i guess.

[GoodGurl]

unless it was a brand new boat, not many would buy it without a survey, i could tell you exactly the same thing about my boat but as a stranger to me would you buy it on my say so? this is what you have to look at.

[Neil2]

I guess its just I and my friend know there is 100% nothing wrong with that boat, he has severe ocd and is very picky and no expense has been spared as it was funded with inheritance money so it wasnt like he was strapped for cash, everything has been done by reputable boat company/companies. Its like buying a brand new car and then taking it for an MOT inspection a month later, doesnt seem to make any sense to me but if they want to pay for the survey/lift out i guess its down to them. Just find it odd thats all but each to their own i guess.

No it's not.

 

You said the boat was built in 1985.

 

It doesn't make sense to you possibly because you don't have a lot of experience of buying boats.

[MtB]

Indeed.

 

A better analogy would be buying say an ancientTriumph Spitfire that had it's rotting chassis welded up by some bloke then plastered with underseal, and having the seller claim it was as good as a new one!

 

MtB

[Sabcat]

I'd want the boat out of the water if it was me. How else would I get to see what I'm buying?

 

My boat is a similar age, has had a lot of work done, has a copy of a survey, was refitted from a bare shell less than 10 years ago and I've got lots of pictures. I'm not selling it but if I was and someone wanted to buy it without a survey or at least having it out of the water I'd think they were nuts.

[Lady Muck]

I had my four year old boat surveyed ( oh my did the boat shop complain and try to put me off), it was a requirement for a marine mortgage. And it threw up some problems which needed sorting. As the boat had 2 pack on the hull if I hadn't got her out I'd have been none the wiser for another five years i reckon.

Can't believe how many people don't get the boat they are buying out the water, it's quite common round these parts.

So I don't see a problem, I would especially get an overplated boat surveyed, for my own peace of mind.

Edited January 13, 2015 by Lady Muck

[MHS]

Indeed.

 

A better analogy would be buying say an ancientTriumph Spitfire that had it's rotting chassis welded up by some bloke then plastered with underseal, and having the seller claim it was as good as a new one!

 

MtB

I was thinking about a similar analogy. As a classic car lover, I have owned various classics over the years, including a 1951 MG YA and a 1972 Midget.

 

A good friend announced that he was buying an MGB for his 50th birthday. I asked if the local MG owners club chairman ( again a good friend ) could have a look at it for him, to give it the once over.

 

Oh no, there's no need, it been completely overhauled, the dealer's a great bloke, says that bring anyone along for a look, the car's mint.

 

No need for the full detail here, but as you imagine, it turned out to be a real dog. A plastic bumper 1978, on a 1974 plate, with chrome bumpers, and everything wrong with it.

 

Have a survey please.

[Arthur Brown]

The enquirer is willing to pay for the survey, and presumably has the money to complete the deal, it's their money let them spend it. For many people the price of a nice boat os a BIG sum of money so people like to take advice,

 

If anyone tried to dissuade me from having a survey my first thought would be "What's wrong with them or the boat?" I'd probably walk on the assumption that the vendor or the boat had something to hide. A 1985 boat WILL have issues it's 30 years old (look for a car that's 30 years old! )

Edited January 13, 2015 by Arthur Brown

[Robbo]

The boat is 30 years old, so it will need a recent survey for insurance purposes even if you were a confident and experienced buyer and knew what to look out for.

[patty-ann]

if these people are new to canal boats they may even have lurked on here and read advice.

even if they decide no by the sound of it that boat will sell if all that work done to that standard.

Survey=peace of mind for people who are not experienced or need to know what independent assessment says.

That other buyer if he's keen won't find another boat in 3 weeks.

[manxmike]

The first boat I looked at was wonderful - until I had a survey done, at which point it was condemned and advice offered that it should not go back in the water!

My insurance demanded a survey before they would offer cover on the boat I did buy. I had already got a survey done so it was not a problem, but I imagine that more insurance companies will be asking for that as a starting point.

The amount of money we spend on our boats neccesitates peace of mind (or at least awareness) as a starting point!

Edited January 13, 2015 by manxmike

[Dekazer]

As vendors, we had a recent survey available with our boat, but I would have been very happy for any prospective buyer to have it surveyed again at their own expense. I was well aware of the issues with the boat (from my own survey) and had priced and advertised it accordingly. However, while surveys slightly delay the whole process, but if it means everyone walks away with a smile, surely that's a good thing.

 

The prospective buyer who is offering a lower price without a survey is making a calculated decision - he's withholding some of the value in case there is remedial work that needs doing. If your friend, the vendor, is confident that the boat is worth the asking price then he might be better to hold out for this couple to have it surveyed.

 

When we bought our new boat we had a survey despite the brokerage (who owned it) assuring us that everything was fine. The surveyor found a few issues that the brokerage then put right within our agreed price, so it was worth it - I would certainly recommend all buyers to seriously consider getting a survey done by a trusted surveyor.

[ditchcrawler]

I guess its just I and my friend know there is 100% nothing wrong with that boat, he has severe ocd and is very picky and no expense has been spared as it was funded with inheritance money so it wasnt like he was strapped for cash, everything has been done by reputable boat company/companies. Its like buying a brand new car and then taking it for an MOT inspection a month later, doesnt seem to make any sense to me but if they want to pay for the survey/lift out i guess its down to them. Just find it odd thats all but each to their own i guess.

No its like buying a restored Morris Minor with no MOT and the seller telling you it will pass but doesnt want you to check before you buy it.

[Sea Dog]

I didn't have my boat surveyed when I bought her. I'm a Chartered Engineer with 35 years naval experience, I've done a university small vessel surveyor's course and have some experience of second hand boat surveys in the marine market. The ONLY reason I took the risk of not having a survey was because I was happy to take that risk based on my own assessment. Not because I'm a clever dick and didn't think I needed one, but because I thought I understood the risk I was taking and was prepared to take it - and I could withstand the potential financial consequences. It was still a risk though, make no mistake, and doubtless some would say I was still foolish to take it.

 

Frankly, there are few circumstances where I'd buy a narrowboat without having it out of the water for a hull survey, but my boat just happened to be one of those, which it wouldn't have been if it had had a bunch of work done by someone I didn't know very well indeed and trust entirely. Incidentally, I blacked my boat late last year and was very happy with what I found but, of course, I could have been wrong.

 

This couple are right to ask for a survey IMHO,.

[Alan de Enfield]

Just two of the things that the buyers may be considering :

 

1) At 30 years old they will (probably) be unable to get the boat insured without a survey to show the insurers.

 

2) Has the added weight of the overplating now made any of the hull openings dangerously close to water level ?

[MtB]

No its like buying a restored Morris Minor with no MOT and the seller telling you it will pass but doesnt want you to check before you buy it.

 

The 'Traveler' version, or just an ordinary saloon?

 

 

MtB

[Rickent]

 

The 'Traveler' version, or just an ordinary saloon?

 

 

MtB

 

 

 

 

 

"Woody"

[ditchcrawler]

 

The 'Traveler' version, or just an ordinary saloon?

 

 

MtB

Traveler and you can see the woodworm running away