Webasto Fuel Dosing Pump

[Captain_Badger]

Hi, I'm new to narrowboat ownership and so far have had a pretty rough ride. We chose a very nice looking and 'up together' boat through a reputable brokerage and employed a well respected surveyor before purchase. We paid good money for the boat, then it all started!

 

Before the first time out of the marina, the propeller shaft sheared off just behind the gearbox. Add £900 to the purchase price. We went to inspect the work to find that the leisure batteries were dead and needed replacing. Add £420! The first stay on the boat and the Webasto heating stopped working. New water circulation pump fitted by a well known marine engineers. Went to inspect the work and guess what, no heating! I'm fairly practical, so decided to have a go at it myself. This is where I get to the point of my request for help...

I have traced to fault back to the fuel dosing pump which didn't seem to be working. If I banged it with the heavy plastic handle of my screwdriver, I could get it to start, but found that it would cut out after a few minutes and bring the heater to a stop. I have tried wiring it directly to a battery and tapping the terminals which would sometimes get the pump to 'tick' and spurt a little fuel, but more often it didn't without me giving it another few taps with the screwdriver.

 

The heater unit is a Webasto Thermotop C and the dosing pump, the 12v unit, part number 82553B. I have come to the conclusion that as the unit doesn't seem to be repairable, I will have to replace it. I have looked online and discovered that the retail price for that unit is £270!!! How on earth Webasto can justify that, I can't imagine! I have found all sorts of other pumps online, advertised as Webasto replacement fuel pumps, suitable for the Thermotop C, ranging from £45 to £160 but they don't look quite the same as my unit.

 

I'm wondering if anyone else has had experience of replacing the pump and whether any of the cheaper units might do the job adequately? And if so, where can I get hold of one from a reputable source? Or even a second hand one? I might well end up having to bite the bullet here and pay the going rate, but having just out- layed the best part of two years hard earned, I'm trying to soften the blow a little!

 

I look forward to hearing from anyone who can help me

 

[James Owen]

I'd confidently supply this as a direct replacement.

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/WEBASTO-AIR-TOP-THERMO-TOP-DIESEL-HEATER-FUEL-PUMP-KIT-EBERSPACHER-/111421903998?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_BoatEquipment_Accessories_SM&hash=item19f143547e

 

Albeit from Turkey, it's as good as the genuine thing.

[Timleech]

Bear in mind that the pump needs a pulsed supply, it won't work if connected to a steady voltage.

If you weren't aware of this, it may be that the fault is not with your pump.

 

Edit - try just flicking the positive wire on to the pump terminal, while the negative is connected.

 

Tim

Edited January 11, 2015 by Timleech

[Captain_Badger]

James, thanks for the tip, but I have just settled a paypal dispute with the same company after something else I ordered from them didn't arrive after 7 weeks! Bit worried about going through that again!

 

Tim, thanks to you too. When I said 'tapping the terminals',I was actually doing as you described. I just wasn't describing it very well. Definitely the pump at fault.

[Tam & Di]

 

Tim, thanks to you too. When I said 'tapping the terminals',I was actually doing as you described. I just wasn't describing it very well. Definitely the pump at fault.

 

Is it definitely the pump. not e.g. the thermostat saying the system is too hot so I won't let the pump work? Do you have any way of connecting the power to the pump independently to check this sort of problem and verify if the pump itself works OK?

Edited January 11, 2015 by Tam & Di

[Captain_Badger]

Hi Tam and Di, thanks very much. I'm not very good at explaining myself. I did the test on a completely free standing battery, so it can't be anything other than the pump.

James, I just found the item you showed me, Webasto part 9012868C for sale online, for sale for £45 ten miles away. If you are certain about it working, I will follow that up for sure. Many thanks.

[James Owen]

At £45 if it looks the same, grab it. The last one I bought was that price and, as far as I know, is still keeping the customers warm til this day.

[Captain_Badger]

James, thanks. I'm off to pick it up tomorrow. I enquired with another Webasto supplier today and they wanted nearly £300 for exactly the same unit. I really do wonder where they get some of these figures from!

[NMEA]

The silver coloured pumps are not nearly as good as the red ones which are not only more reliable but considerably quieter. A couple of things you can try with a seemingly dead pump are giving is some sharp taps a bit like a sticky solenoid, which after all is exactly what it is whilst it is energised by the ECU (i.e. being pulsed) and putting it in some paraffin in an ultrasonic cleaner. Prevention of siezed and sticky pumps is one of the reasons is we at Webasto dealerships strongly recommend running the heater once a month even in summer. I shouldn't really say this but for those unwilling or unable to pay the Webasto price then Anglia Postal Parts (ebay seller) are respectable, reliable and support theor products swiftly and reasonably.

By the way, fitting a new pump, especially an aftermarket one is one of the situations that requires the Exhaust gas CO2 level to be checked as the burn rate will be altered by the slightly different dose. Of course the heater will still run, just that the mixture may be either lean or rich with the attendant future issues they cause.

Edited January 13, 2015 by NMEA

[Sea Dog]

^^^^ Pure Gold! ^^^^

[NMEA]

I forgot to say yesterday but many pumps come with a damper and sadly that will have to go as it is plastic and not BSS compliant, just pull it off. Shame really as the heaters work much better with one on to smooth out the pulses (a bit like an accumulator smoothes out the water pump pulse), there used to be an inland BSS compliant one with the damper which was all contained in an aluminium box to comply and they worked very well but now the marine kits for inland use just come sans damper.

[Cheshire cat]

There don't appear to be any red ones on Ebay.

 

Are you meaning the ones with a red label?

 

I've bought a boat that has had a new Webasto install. The diesel pump is silver and quite noisy, . Does that mean its likely to be non- genuine?

[NMEA]

There don't appear to be any red ones on Ebay.

 

Are you meaning the ones with a red label?

 

I've bought a boat that has had a new Webasto install. The diesel pump is silver and quite noisy, . Does that mean its likely to be non- genuine?

Yes, slightly different shape and a red body. There are different pump makers which heater manufacturers source from so it being silver does not mean it is not genuine, doesn't mean it is either but genuine ones all have the Webasto logo. That said, the true marine kits usually come with the red type. The noise is often transmitted due to an ill thought out install and can usually be improved quite easily.

Edited January 15, 2015 by NMEA

[Sea Dog]

The noise is often transmitted due to an ill thought out install and can usually be improved quite easily.

 

Are Eberspacher units similar in this respect NMEA? My 4W sounds like someone's tapping on the hull with a spanner, slowly at first, then gradually quicker. Do you know what component is causing that and is there a fix?

[NMEA]

 

Are Eberspacher units similar in this respect NMEA? My 4W sounds like someone's tapping on the hull with a spanner, slowly at first, then gradually quicker. Do you know what component is causing that and is there a fix?

It's a solenoid pump and inherantly make a noise unfortunately as the piston hits each end, some are better than others, the trick is to stop the noise being transmitted through the hull by mounting it on isolation rubbers and on a sound deadening panel, the simple rubber lined P clip used in non marine kits is a big contributer as that's what most people seem to use.

[Sea Dog]

It's a solenoid pump and inherantly make a noise unfortunately as the piston hits each end, some are better than others, the trick is to stop the noise being transmitted through the hull by mounting it on isolation rubbers and on a sound deadening panel, the simple rubber lined P clip used in non marine kits is a big contributer as that's what most people seem to use.

 

Thanks for that. Best I get in there with my torch and see what the potential for replacement mountings is then.

[Cheshire cat]

Hmmm! I have undone the bolt on my P clip and no more noise. I'll try again with some sound deadening.

 

Thanks for your advice. Much appreciated.

[Captain_Badger]

Hi all. Thanks very much for your advice NMEA. As per my original posting, I was able to get the old pump working by tapping it whenever it stopped. I could get anything up to half an hour out of it before it started sticking again. I haven't thought about the ultrasonic idea. I'm not sure where I might find someone with such a device?

 

I have just returned from a weekend on the boat with the new fuel metering pump fitted and yes, it does seem to be working well and trialled for up to an hour and a half without cutting out.. I was sceptical about buying one without the red label, but unless someone is trying to pull a fast one, the pump is marked up with the Webasto logo and part number? My thoughts about it being not as reliable were that I could buy six of these compared to the red labelled one. I was aware of the potential fuel dosage errors when I bought it, but knew that if it wasn't supplying enough fuel, the heater would overheat and cut out, telling me so. I have also been watching the exhaust for any sign of soot which I imagine would show if it was being over fuelled? I'm wondering if the dosage/ CO2 range is any more critical than my crude assessment?

 

I have thought about the pretty useless rubber P clip and will be modifying that some time in the future. I did manage to sleep through it in the mornings though, so I'm not in any great rush!

 

Many thanks

[NMEA]

Both the silver and red pumps can be genuine Webasto, as I said in a previous post they will have the Webasto logo which yours does. Burn rate is not about obvious sooting or burning so lean that it cuts out but more of a long term issue, you would never notice without a flue gas anayliser if it was out enough to make it coke up prematurely, really all you need is a friendly boiler guy who has an anayliser to check it. Properly adjusting it is another matter though as it requires software and an interface for your lap top as well as a bit of practise to do it properly.