Springer narrow boats

[stuart]

Hi.

 

I'm new to narrow boating and looking to buy my first boat. I'm after something thats cheap to purchase and dont mind if the interior needs attention (DIY can be fun!)

 

I've looked recently at a 38ft Springer (all steel) boat - looks in good condition etc.

 

What do others think about this make etc? Any issues I should be aware of?

 

 

Its fitted with a Yanmar 1200 single cylinder engine - whats this like? Reliable etc?

[Paul Evans]

Springers have a long history as relatively cheap and reliable boats - but they ar not built anymore. One word of warning - they were built with thinner bottoms (6mm, I think) than other boats (10mm or 12mm) and I have heard stories of them corroding or wearing through. I have also heard of succesful rebottoming - usually by welding sheets over the existing steel - at a price.

 

Before you buy, find yourself a surveyor and have the boat inspected out of the water. This will cost you money but could save you much more. If, after a few months, weeks or days you find your boat sitting on the bottom of the canal because the bottom has worn through, you will have no redress against the vendor. The old maxim - buyer beware - applies with full force to secondhand narrowboats.

 

A surveyor will carry out an inspection of the hull (amongst other things), including ultrasonic measuring of the steel. He will be able to tell you about th extent of any corrosion and pitting so that you can decide wheher to buy or not Surveyors advertise in the waterways press (Waterways World etc) and there is a list here: http://waterwaysdirectory.com.

 

Sorry, I don't know much about Yanmar enqines but I'm sure somebody on the forum will help.

[stuart]

Thanks for the useful info. The previous owner has had a new bottom welded onto the boat already in Feb 2003, and this was 6mm steel plates. The hull was also blacked then as well.

 

So probably not a bad boat to go for. I was surprised to see how little head room there was though. No more than 6ft inside the cabin. Is this usual?

[John Orentas]

Stuart.

 

I obviously can't comment on the boat in question. Bear in mind however, the only thing that cannot be changed or improved on a norrowboat is the shell, that is what gives it the value, everthing else can be fixed or replaced.

 

In other words, for a given amount of money, in your case a low budget, go for a boat with a good quality /specfication shell (known maker, reasonable metal thickness, general look of a good quality albeit neglected boat). You are probably more used to buying cars, forget about age, superficial rust, paint finish concentrate on the basics.

 

Surveyors are expensive, if you know a metal fabricator or general engineer, take him along though you may choose to get a survey at a later stage. If it is a cheap boat you must see it out of the water before you buy. If it has been re-bottomed make sure it has been done competantly, I have seen some terrible jobs which have virtually destroyed the boat.

 

Springer were at the cheap and cheerfull end of the market and they are all getting on a bit now, don't rule them out, but on balance go for a rough other known make rather than a pretty springer. As for the single cylinder Yanmar, realistically you should be thinking that you may have to replace it within a couple of years. £3,000 plus second hand.

 

John Squeers

[timboharticus]

 

I had a Springer about same size.

 

It was fine. If yours has been overplated should last next 15+ years with care.

 

I agree that it's a bit like a house.

 

If you get a house in a not so good area (ie. Springer) no matter what you do or spend it will still be seen as a budget buy.

 

But as an introduction to narrowboating it is probably a good buy.

 

I bought mine for £13k sold it for £10k.

[stuart]

Thanks for all your useful advice.

 

As a general rule, are there some other 'good' makes to watch out for - obviously keeping a limit on the costs. I really want a solid shell and engine with tired/worn internal trim. I want an all steel construction, pref. cruiser/semi trad style. Not keen on wooden or GRP tops.

 

I'm having quite a hard time finding a boat! Most people say there should be plenty around this time of year (ie. autumn/winter) but I have only seen a couple that were okay.

 

I've used the following websites so far any others I should try out?

 

http://www.vcmarine.co.uk/

http://www.abnb.co.uk/

http://www.boatsandoutboards.com

http://www.braunstonmarina.co.uk

http://narrowboats.apolloduck.co.uk/

 

I live in the 'black country' so I'd expect there should be some around here!

[John Orentas]

Stuart.

 

Consider buying a plastic GRP or timber cabin boat, then having a steel cabin fitted. The economics of this can stack up quite well.

 

John Squeers.

[timboharticus]

Try www.canalcraft.co.uk

 

If you are buying at the cheaper end of the market it may be worth phoning up some marinas and seeing if they have postcards etc pinned up.

Willowbridge at Milton Keynes has some of these.

 

It may be worth talking to boaters on the towpath, in the pub etc. to see if they know of a suitable boat for sale.

 

Its always a bit risky buying a boat without a survey and these are not cheap.

 

The Springer you mentioned sounds quite a good buy if the price is right.

[Tommo]

Thanks for all your useful advice.I've used the following websites so far any others I should try out?

 

http://www.vcmarine.co.uk/

http://www.abnb.co.uk/

http://www.boatsandoutboards.com

http://www.braunstonmarina.co.uk

http://narrowboats.apolloduck.co.uk/

 

I live in the 'black country' so I'd expect there should be some around here! 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I notice you don't have http://www.whiltonmarina.co.uk/ on your list. We sold our previous boat through them a couple of years ago.

 

Tommo

[Paul Evans]

Try this site for a list of brokers - one may have the boat you are looking for:

 

http://waterwaysdirectory.com/

[stuart]

I notice you don't have http://www.whiltonmarina.co.uk/ on your list.  We sold our previous boat through them a couple of years ago.

 

Tommo

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I actually visited them a couple of weekends ago. I was surprised how many boats they had there. Good range but most out of my price range.

 

I was also a little surprised at what little you get for £21K - some even had holes in the cabin roof!

[David Schweizer]

You should be able to get a perfectly decent boat in good working order for 21k. especially if you are prepared to look at something more than 15 years old that has been looked after and has a fairly indifferent engine (ie not a slow revving Trad). look out for early Colecraft or Hancock and Lane boats both are well built craft and were built in sufficient numbers for there always to be a few on the Market. Barney boats are well built and come onto the market from time to time, if you are really lucky you could even find a Braunston Canal Services boat, nice lines and built like tanks.

 

Some Brokers do not like having boats on their books that are more than 10 or 12 years old - Try Virginia Currier, she knows her boats very well and always has a few older well built boats on her books.

 

Let us know if you find the boat of your dreams.

[dor]

venetian marina quite often have older/cheaper boats. Not a big selection, but they turn them over quite quickly. Edited October 12, 2004 by dor

[Guest]

Stuart

I imagine the engine is a YSE12 single cylinder Yanmar. Our last boat had same. Built in the 1970's they seem to go for ever. Spares are getting harder to get now, but by no means impossible. There seems to be more of these engines in USA in yachts and many forums cater for them. Ours was noisy, vibrated a lot but extremely reliable. At just 500cc they can push amazingly big boats.

[Martin]

Can I add my opinion for what its worth?

We bought Octarine nearly five years ago and she is a 72' Hancock and Lane with a 3 cylinder Lister thumper.

Built in 1979, we were somewhat wary and made sure we had an out-of-the-water survey done.

 

The surveyor was not at all surprised to find her in very good shape.

The steel used on these older boats is often better than that used today.

The chances are that Octarine was built of good old British steel and after 20 years there was negligible corrosion on the bottom plate and very little pitting.

Contrast that with some of the boats from a company based on Deeside called Hallmark (now gone bust I think).

They must have used the cheapest Russian steel available for their shells and I spoke to a boatyard three years ago that was replating the bottom of a Hallmark Millenium boat - it was just two years old!!!

 

Older does not necessarily mean it is worn out.

Diesels can run and run (given a little care every now and then) and even a rough looking boat can be made quite smart with a lick of paint and a bit of work inside.

Don't be put off by age alone - unless the surveyor picks up something nasty.

If the electrics are original then you might have some work to do there, but any boat you buy now should have been brought up to Boat Safety Scheme standards at least.

 

We found Steven Harrall's brokerage at Northwich very helpful indeed and his website is pretty good and updated regularly too.

Harral Brokerage

I know you are based in the Black Country but you would be best advised to put in some miles in your search - make a day of it!

[Gary Stacey]

I would agree with martin. The age of a boat is no gaurantee that it is in good condition hull wise. I have seen many boats come out of the water in my basin both old and new and have seen some very new boats with considerable pitting and some very old boats that show little sign of corrosion. Hence an old boat can be a bargain as it would appear that the boat market is getting a lot like the car market ie newer = better ande so more expensive!

[brenda1951]

hi and welcome we bought our springer 4 years ago and prior to the purchase we trailed the marinas and boatyards for 18 months we paid 3k for ours but we have spent a fortune on her but we chose to and now she is very unique but still a springer .

We had the bottom overplated all new windows and side hatches and front opening doors ,new piping for the water and a state of the art electric system at present our poor old engine single cylinder is being replaced with a recon 3 cylinder. People said why not have a new boat well simply at that time it was not an option but watching and saving for it all to come to-gether has been a lovely experoence but not when your going around in circles in the middle of the canal with a useless engine.For us it has been a learning curve and so many people have watched our little 30ft Springer grow into something of pride and she has had many admiring comments following all this a complete coat of paint and we begin some of the internal work not much to do really All of this work was done bit by bit and yet we never regretted our purchase once we will never recoup the money we have spent on her but as shes not for sale it doesnt matter.Go buy your boat but heed the good advice of others and enjoy it

[Athy]

Just one thing puzzles me, Stuart: you say that you are new to narrowboats, but I see that you posted over 1,800 messages on this website. What were the others all about?

[grahoom]

Just one thing puzzles me, Stuart: you say that you are new to narrowboats, but I see that you posted over 1,800 messages on this website. What were the others all about?

 

Athy, stuarts post was back in 2004 .

[Athy]

That's another thing that puzzles me: why on earth did I not notice that? But I think that the firgure of 1,809 posts was displayed beside his initial question. Have we any news of what boat Stuart eventually bought?

[grahoom]

That's another thing that puzzles me: why on earth did I not notice that? But I think that the firgure of 1,809 posts was displayed beside his initial question. Have we any news of what boat Stuart eventually bought?

 

there are some pictures in Stuarts gallery - in his profile, i am presuming that might be his boat.

[alan_fincher]

Correct - your post count always displays as total posts to date, (excluding Virtual Pub).

 

So even if you find the first post anybody ever made, it will show their current post count.

 

Stuart used to be a very regular contributor, but shows up less now, (unless he's trying to flog some used PCs like the one I'm currently using!)

 

I'm sure he can speak for himself, but I believe his original plan was to buy a secondhand boat, but he eventually settled for, and fitted out a sailaway.

 

I seem to recall it's LB, about 45 feet, and there have been some interesting diversions around bits of his drivetrain and/or gearbox separating, (I don't recall which exactly).

 

Stuart did some useful "how to" guides, like "how to add a shunt ammeter", and a search around the archives gives some good practical insight into some improvements he made. I seem to recall he also fitted an Aquadrive or Pythondrive, following problems he has had. Given a professionally fitted one that appeared recently in a members boat, it's maybe a shame the installers had not read Stu's guide.

 

Alan

 

at present our poor old engine single cylinder is being replaced with a recon 3 cylinder.

Ah, Brenda,

 

I think it was you who popped up a month or so back on the topic of your engine.

 

At the time I think you said replacement with even a secondhand option was not an option.

 

So I'm guessing the verdict on the old engine can't have been too favourable ?

 

Anyway good luck with your obviously much loved, (and much improved) boat.

 

Alan

[brenda1951]

Correct - your post count always displays as total posts to date, (excluding Virtual Pub).

 

So even if you find the first post anybody ever made, it will show their current post count.

 

Stuart used to be a very regular contributor, but shows up less now, (unless he's trying to flog some used PCs like the one I'm currently using!)

 

I'm sure he can speak for himself, but I believe his original plan was to buy a secondhand boat, but he eventually settled for, and fitted out a sailaway.

 

I seem to recall it's LB, about 45 feet, and there have been some interesting diversions around bits of his drivetrain and/or gearbox separating, (I don't recall which exactly).

 

Stuart did some useful "how to" guides, like "how to add a shunt ammeter", and a search around the archives gives some good practical insight into some improvements he made. I seem to recall he also fitted an Aquadrive or Pythondrive, following problems he has had. Given a professionally fitted one that appeared recently in a members boat, it's maybe a shame the installers had not read Stu's guide.

 

Alan

 

 

Ah, Brenda,

 

I think it was you who popped up a month or so back on the topic of your engine.

 

At the time I think you said replacement with even a secondhand option was not an option.

 

So I'm guessing the verdict on the old engine can't have been too favourable ?

 

Anyway good luck with your obviously much loved, (and much improved) boat.

 

Alan

[Dominic M]

Thanks for all your useful advice.

 

As a general rule, are there some other 'good' makes to watch out for - obviously keeping a limit on the costs. I really want a solid shell and engine with tired/worn internal trim. I want an all steel construction, pref. cruiser/semi trad style. Not keen on wooden or GRP tops.

 

I'm having quite a hard time finding a boat! Most people say there should be plenty around this time of year (ie. autumn/winter) but I have only seen a couple that were okay.

 

I've used the following websites so far any others I should try out?

 

http://www.vcmarine.co.uk/

http://www.abnb.co.uk/

http://www.boatsandoutboards.com

http://www.braunstonmarina.co.uk

http://narrowboats.apolloduck.co.uk/

 

I live in the 'black country' so I'd expect there should be some around here!

I've got one -

[carlt]

Correct - your post count always displays as total posts to date, (excluding Virtual Pub).

 

So even if you find the first post anybody ever made, it will show their current post count.

not always....