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heated towel rails


Emerald

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I have been looking for ways to add a little heat to the bathroom in my narrow boat and I was all set for tapping into the existing Webasto heating system, extending the pipework and installing a towel rail when I realised I had issues with a cupboard opening that prohibited me from placing the rail in the only available free space. I spent a few weeks looking for alternative solutions when I stumbled across a low wattage dry heated solution. As I spend most of the time on shoreline power I splashed the cash and thought I would give one of these a go? As it has a swivel motion I can simply manoeuvre the pipe work out of the way of the cupboard opening and problem solved.

I was wondering if anyone could offer me some advise regarding spuring the wiring from my nearest 230v outlet to the rail can anyone foreseeable any other issues having a mains operated towel rail installation that I may have overlooked?

 

Incidentally the unit is only 45W

 

rail.jpg

Edited by Escape
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I have been looking for ways to add a little heat to the bathroom in my narrow boat

 

can anyone foreseeable any other issues having a mains operated towel rail installation that I may have overlooked?

 

Incidentally the unit is only 45W

 

The somewhat negative issue I see is that 45w might just about warm up a towel, but I doubt you'll notice any real difference in the comfort of your bathroom with such a low output. sad.png

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Thanks for the response and totally agree with your comments but the bathroom is like being in the Baltic during the winter months and if it lifts the temperature just a tad then that will be of some comfort. I have plugged the rail directly into a mains socket and it heats up at a reasonable rate. It is quite warm to the touch but not enough to fetch my skin off, the output is described as 'Energy efficient' I thought that would be good if I ran it off the inverter at some point.

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My boat has a heated towel rail fed of the Webasto, which also has a mains electric element in it. However the element is 500 watts. It heats the towel rail just like the Webasto.

 

I really don't think 45 watts will heat the rail much at all.

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https://www.dropbox.com/s/0atl12dhjs4rl8n/IMAG0075%20%281%29.jpg?dl=0

 

And exactly the same one in my Head, though couldn't get a good picture.

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/2vv28d3n4a118fe/IMAG0048%20%281%29.jpg?dl=0

 

They are the oil filled type, and the electric element runs at 140 ish watts each I believe. I put them on as overnight heating to take the chill off say 10hrs a night, and as they are mounted approximately dead center of the cabin I find that together with my Dehumidifier that running at approximately 240 Watts

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/mik6wdvblorpcpf/IMAG0053.jpg?dl=0

 

really works ok for me, and makes a noticeable difference throughout the whole boat. But 40 watts !,, I can't see you will notice difference to warrant the running costs I

m o.

Edited by Paul's Nulife4-2
  • Greenie 1
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The somewhat negative issue I see is that 45w might just about warm up a towel, but I doubt you'll notice any real difference in the comfort of your bathroom with such a low output. sad.png

You would be surprised.

 

For the winter we add a small tube heater to our shower room as that has no heat source (obviously we dont use the shower with it in there!) and that does a great job of keeping the room heated and well above freezing.

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Our "bathroom/loo" can be warmed with the heat of one small hurricane lantern to a point where it becomes comfortable even in freezing weather.

I have tapped into the tail of the calorifier return and made a very small radiator out of bits of copper pipe. If I calculate the 'losses' from the pipework it comes to about 40-50W as calculated from this website: http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/copper-pipe-heat-loss-d_19.html

 

The rad looks like the picture below.

IMAG0043.jpg

 

I was surprised how much difference it made. If I were to make one again I would make it larger but that is because I have since re-designed the bathroom and have more space to put it.

 

Colin

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Try putting a 40w light bulb (on an extension lead if needed) into the bathroom, leave it for a few hours and see how warm (or not) the bathroom gets.

 

I may well be proven wrong - but I reckon if you try and run it off the inverter you will just be wasting about 100Ah a day.out of your batteries. (45W = 4.5 amps via an inverter)

  • Greenie 1
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Some of the finrads have a copper pipe, so could be run directly off a calorifer using a small pump.

 

Would cool the cal down, but one way to get a low constant heat without having the diesel heater running all the time.

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

Edited by smileypete
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Sorry to slightly off topic but can you possibly post a link to the twel rail - it is exactly what I think would fit my small house.

 

Here is the link http://www.heatthat.co.uk/heat-that/heat-that-towel-warmer-sv21.html#sthash.Po0sBSQC.dpuf to the towel rail. They also have an ebay shop.

 

Thanks for all the replies, the area to the right of the sink is where I plan to site the rail. What is outside of camera shot is a tilt opening for a linen cupboard/basket. I would have to lose the opening or have to redesign the cupboard to fix a conventional towel rail in the area I planned. This I am reluctant to do as I quite like the feature. The towel rail is ideal because it will swivel out of the way when I open the cupboard. I just need to consider the electrics now the nearest Power supply is in that saloon area about a metre and a half away. If I am able to thread a cable into the bathroom and spur from that socket I take it I wouldn't be breaking any electricity safety rules would I?

Bathroom.jpg

Edited by Escape
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I was just thinking that the Calorifire would loose it's stored heat fairly quickly via the radiator if it couldn't be reheated in some way, I'm thinking maybe 45 minutes or so.

But if it works, then great.

 

Well if it takes 2kW to heat, it should run a small 200W rad up to 10 hours, probably 6 to 8 hours in practice so might take the chill off a sleeping cabin quite nicely.

 

Shoreline or stove overnight would be better, but not always available.

 

I like Colins DIY radiator, would be a good way to use up scrap bits of copper pipe and fittings.

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

Edited by smileypete
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I just need to consider the electrics now the nearest Power supply is in that saloon area about a metre and a half away. If I am able to thread a cable into the bathroom and spur from that socket I take it I wouldn't be breaking any electricity safety rules would I?

 

The correct way is probably to fit a fused spur outlet near the towel rail with 3A fuse, but somewhere out of the way from being splashed, and link it into the nearest socket.

 

http://www.screwfix.com/p/13a-switched-fused-connection-unit-spur-white-neon/8009d

 

The instructions for the rail may have installation info and requirements.

 

ETA: If the towel rail lead is long enough, might be possible to feed through to saloon and use with a 3 pin plug fitted with a 3A fuse.

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

Edited by smileypete
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The correct way is probably to fit a fused spur outlet near the towel rail with 3A fuse, but somewhere out of the way from being splashed, and link it into the nearest socket.

 

http://www.screwfix.com/p/13a-switched-fused-connection-unit-spur-white-neon/8009d

 

The instructions for the rail may have installation info and requirements.

 

ETA: If the towel rail lead is long enough, might be possible to feed through to saloon and use with a 3 pin plug fitted with a 3A fuse.

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

Thanks, useful information, and it looks like I am on the right track. I am by no means a confident electrician but I was thinking about concealing a fused spur near the base of the linen cupboard. There is a 3 pin plug attached on a short lead on the heater so I will have to cut that off. My main concern was linking to an existing power outlet I didn't want that to be unsafe? I wouldn't have given it a second thought had it been house wiring.

What I think I will do as an interim is try a temporary installation just to see if the rail is any good or then post my observations on here in case anyone in the future decides to go down the same path.

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Here in the States, any installation like that in a wet location, and a bathroom is classified as a wet location, should be fused using a GFCI breaker. I think you use a different type of breaker there in the UK, but it accomplishes essentially the same thing. The point is, you want to make sure that your source of electricity does not come from a circuit that has just a simple circuit breaker.

 

I don't remember the correct terminology for the breakers, but I'm sure someone there knows which breakers are approved for use in a bathroom and can advise you accordingly.

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Here in the States, any installation like that in a wet location, and a bathroom is classified as a wet location, should be fused using a GFCI breaker. I think you use a different type of breaker there in the UK, but it accomplishes essentially the same thing. The point is, you want to make sure that your source of electricity does not come from a circuit that has just a simple circuit breaker.

 

I don't remember the correct terminology for the breakers, but I'm sure someone there knows which breakers are approved for use in a bathroom and can advise you accordingly.

Ground Force Circuit Interrupter.

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I have a mains element in my bathroom tail rail,(also heated by diesel heater if it's on).I had it installed from build 5years ago, love it and used it frequently. It's 150 watt wired straight to distribution box and its own trip.

As heat goes you are not going to burn yourself but would not leave hand on it,the bathroom is warm and cosy. You say mains power is available,as with me in the winter so it makes sense to me,in fact with stove alight in lounge and rad on in bathroom if particularly cold I rarely use my diesel heating.As a bonus with this system,when out cruising,I run it off the inverter so the bathroom is warm and cosy when I stop and want a shower,works well for me.

Back to your system........40watt may be a little cool,all I know for sure is 150watt works.As regard your supplying it,if a cable run back to distribution box is out of the question, a fused spur in a bathroom cupboard or outside room,correctly fused is the way to go.

Keep warm and hope you get it sorted,you won't look back.

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  • 1 month later...

Image%2015.02.2015%2020.56.20%200263.jpe The rail is now fitted and up and running. The heat from it is subtle and dries the towels quite nicely. Despite the low wattage the rail does get quite warm to the touch and thankfully lifts the temperature in the room after a few hours.

as the rail arms swivel it has worked out quite nicely as the spring loaded linen cupboard door to the right of the rail is able to open.

Edited by Escape
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