nb Russia

[MtB]

My mistake, Mike, been in the car today for 5 hours visiting family. Ready to hit the sack...

 

Just thought it 'could' be important, if someone going to knock on their boat to check if they were ok was expecting a bloke and it was a girl.

 

Sleep well.

 

 

MtB

[Starcoaster]

If the lady on this green boat in Oxfordshire did not specifically ask you to post about her personal situation on the forum (and I assume she did not, as you did not state otherwise) I am not sure she would welcome you publically posting her private and possibly very personal business, along with a description identifying her boat and exact location, and details such as that you clearly felt that she was badly enough off that you offered to buy her a meal, which as you say, she declined.

I know I bloody wouldn't like it if she were me, good intentions or not.

Edited January 11, 2015 by Starcoaster

[MtB]

Good point.

[DeanS]

Some content has now been removed. Thanks.

[MtB]

Good call Dean.

[Athy]

If the lady on this green boat in Oxfordshire did not specifically ask you to post about her personal situation on the forum (and I assume she did not, as you did not state otherwise) I am not sure she would welcome you publically posting her private and possibly very personal business, along with a description identifying her boat and exact location, and details such as that you clearly felt that she was badly enough off that you offered to buy her a meal, which as you say, she declined.

I know I bloody wouldn't like it if she were me, good intentions or not.

I realise that you mean well but, if no one knows where this boat is, how can people help if the boater is in trouble? It sounds as if Foxy did his best, but the boater mat possibly be in need of further assistance, and if no one knows where it is, how can they assist?

[DeanS]

I realise that you mean well but, if no one knows where this boat is, how can people help if the boater is in trouble? It sounds as if Foxy did his best, but the boater mat possibly be in need of further assistance, and if no one knows where it is, how can they assist?

 

I'd suggest he perhaps contact CRT and ask to speak to the welfare officer, (Sean Williams) if he's concerned for her welfare, or perhaps msg a few boaters he knows in the area who can help IF she truly does want help. ? We know that the forum has helped many people in need in the past, but I think at this point we might need to respect her privacy until there's some assurance that she's happy with the public scrutiny.

Edited January 11, 2015 by DeanS

[Starcoaster]

As far as could be ascertained from Emerald Fox's post prior to the mod edit, the boater in question did not request that her information be posted on the forum, nor do we know that she asked for any of the details of her situation, or location, to be publicly disseminated, nor even how much she outright told Emerald Fox, versus what he worked out or felt that he deduced for himself.

 

I am sure Emerald Fox will clarify if she has indeed asked for her information to be posted as an open plea for assistance, and what type of assistance she wants, but I would suspect that if she had done so, he might have made a new post for it, rather than tagging it onto another thread as an afterthought.

All that was stated for sure is that she was lent/given a couple of litres of diesel, turned down a meal, and had possibly knackered batteries... Not that she wanted someone to buy or give her anything, or was asking for some kind of open appeal to be made on her behalf.

 

Emerald Fox conjectured on whether or not he would have bought her a new set of batteries if he had had the cash, but he most certainly did not say that she had asked him to, nor made any implication that she had.

 

Again, if she has asked for help and given permission for that request to be circulated, then clarification of this would be prudent, as it wasn't even clearly stated what type of help or need Emerald Fox felt that the boater was in, much less whether she herself was singing from the same hymn sheet or inviting donations.

The whole "probably means well, but..." thing may well apply here, but for a different reason.

 

 

If someone needs help and asks for it, I am all over that. But I like to ensure that said person is the one asking, rather than that someone else has deemed their situation sad or in need of an intervention without their say-so, and is speaking on their behalf without being given express permission to do so.

Hence the request for clarity, and well-placed mod intervention to safeguard the privacy, dignity and potential safety of the woman in question in the interim.

Edited January 11, 2015 by Starcoaster

[alan_fincher]

I'd suggest he perhaps contact CRT and ask to speak to the Chaplain if he's concerned for her welfare?

For clarity:

 

CRT now have a welfare officer, (Sean Williams), but he is not a chaplain, and probably best not described as such.

[DeanS]

For clarity:

 

CRT now have a welfare officer, (Sean Williams), but he is not a chaplain, and probably best not described as such.

 

thanks, edited my post.

[Tuscan]

As far as could be ascertained from Emerald Fox's post prior to the mod edit, the boater in question did not request that her information be posted on the forum, nor do we know that she asked for any of the details of her situation, or location, to be publicly disseminated, nor even how much she outright told Emerald Fox, versus what he worked out or felt that he deduced for himself.

 

I am sure Emerald Fox will clarify if she has indeed asked for her information to be posted as an open plea for assistance, and what type of assistance she wants, but I would suspect that if she had done so, he might have made a new post for it, rather than tagging it onto another thread as an afterthought.

All that was stated for sure is that she was lent/given a couple of litres of diesel, turned down a meal, and had possibly knackered batteries... Not that she wanted someone to buy or give her anything, or was asking for some kind of open appeal to be made on her behalf.

 

Emerald Fox conjectured on whether or not he would have bought her a new set of batteries if he had had the cash, but he most certainly did not say that she had asked him to, nor made any implication that she had.

 

Again, if she has asked for help and given permission for that request to be circulated, then clarification of this would be prudent, as it wasn't even clearly stated what type of help or need Emerald Fox felt that the boater was in, much less whether she herself was singing from the same hymn sheet or inviting donations.

The whole "probably means well, but..." thing may well apply here, but for a different reason.

Excellent post.

[junior]

 

 

If someone needs help and asks for it, I am all over that. But I like to ensure that said person is the one asking, rather than that someone else has deemed their situation sad or in need of an intervention without their say-so, and is speaking on their behalf without being given express permission to do so.

Couldn't the same comment be applied to the Nb Russia owner too? The op states offers of help were made but he doesn't want it. Here we are now with his details being sent to 3rd parties/CRT?

 

That is a genuine question, not me trying to argue. You post is an excellent one. As you say, I'm sure EF had good intentions. When I read his initial post i thought "what a good egg", the stuff in your post Starry never came into my head, next time it will and I'm sure EF may say the same.

[DeanS]

Couldn't the same comment be applied to the Nb Russia owner too? The op states offers of help were made but he doesn't want it. Here we are now with his details being sent to 3rd parties/CRT?

 

 

Hi junior. Perhaps yes, but I think that the sinking of a narrowboat is generally public knowledge very quickly, and as the OP mentioned it was on Facebook, so reporting it on the forum is general interest. I think CRT would already be involved when it's a sinking. Talking about a vulnerable lady boater on the forum, without her knowledge is possibly stepping over the privacy line, especially when colour of boat, exact location, etc is given. I do sincerely hope that EF, who has actually met her and been on her boat, will pass it on to the CRT welfare office IF he feels it is a genuine welfare case.

Edited January 12, 2015 by DeanS

[Barry]

As far as could be ascertained from Emerald Fox's post prior to the mod edit, the boater in question did not request that her information be posted on the forum, nor do we know that she asked for any of the details of her situation, or location, to be publicly disseminated, nor even how much she outright told Emerald Fox, versus what he worked out or felt that he deduced for himself.

 

I am sure Emerald Fox will clarify if she has indeed asked for her information to be posted as an open plea for assistance, and what type of assistance she wants, but I would suspect that if she had done so, he might have made a new post for it, rather than tagging it onto another thread as an afterthought.

All that was stated for sure is that she was lent/given a couple of litres of diesel, turned down a meal, and had possibly knackered batteries... Not that she wanted someone to buy or give her anything, or was asking for some kind of open appeal to be made on her behalf.

 

Emerald Fox conjectured on whether or not he would have bought her a new set of batteries if he had had the cash, but he most certainly did not say that she had asked him to, nor made any implication that she had.

 

Again, if she has asked for help and given permission for that request to be circulated, then clarification of this would be prudent, as it wasn't even clearly stated what type of help or need Emerald Fox felt that the boater was in, much less whether she herself was singing from the same hymn sheet or inviting donations.

The whole "probably means well, but..." thing may well apply here, but for a different reason.

 

 

If someone needs help and asks for it, I am all over that. But I like to ensure that said person is the one asking, rather than that someone else has deemed their situation sad or in need of an intervention without their say-so, and is speaking on their behalf without being given express permission to do so.

Hence the request for clarity, and well-placed mod intervention to safeguard the privacy, dignity and potential safety of the woman in question in the interim.

 

Greenied

 

Well said Starry. As much as people may decide that this boater needs help that help cannot be imposed. I think its a delicate skill as to how any help is offered. Any potential helpers must bear in mind that, in helping, they do not have the right to take away the the person's autonomy.

[Athy]

I now get the point. It reminds me of the story about the Boy Scouts who, some of you may remember, were encouraged to help old ladies across the road. One day it took six scouts to help one particular lady across a busy road.

She didn't want to cross it.

[Bettie Boo]

Couldn't the same comment be applied to the Nb Russia owner too? The op states offers of help were made but he doesn't want it. Here we are now with his details being sent to 3rd parties/CRT?

 

That is a genuine question, not me trying to argue. You post is an excellent one. As you say, I'm sure EF had good intentions. When I read his initial post i thought "what a good egg", the stuff in your post Starry never came into my head, next time it will and I'm sure EF may say the same.

 

Just to be clear as the OP, I didn't state any such thing. I made a simple post stating that a (what looked to me to be a boat with some history) narrow boat had sunk and that it may be of interest so some of the folks on the forum.

 

Hi junior. Perhaps yes, but I think that the sinking of a narrowboat is generally public knowledge very quickly, and as the OP mentioned it was on Facebook, so reporting it on the forum is general interest. I think CRT would already be involved when it's a sinking. Talking about a vulnerable lady boater on the forum, without her knowledge is possibly stepping over the privacy line, especially when colour of boat, exact location, etc is given. I do sincerely hope that EF, who has actually met her and been on her boat, will pass it on to the CRT welfare office IF he feels it is a genuine welfare case.

 

Thanks Dean, that's correct.

 

Also, I made no reference to the owner, it's location, or description of the boat other than it's name, which by that time I posted was very public knowledge. Nor did I suggest folks should automatically jump on a band wagon to help the owner out as the only info I had was from a public network and I wouldn't presume to it's authenticity.

[junior]

 

Just to be clear as the OP, I didn't state any such thing. I made a simple post stating that a (what looked to me to be a boat with some history) narrow boat had sunk and that it may be of interest so some of the folks on the forum.

 

My apologies Bettie. I remembered reading at the beginning of the thread so had assumed (wrongly) that it was in the OP. I didn't want to scroll back through 4 pages on my tiny phone screen so took a guess.

[Bettie Boo]

My apologies Bettie. I remembered reading at the beginning of the thread so had assumed (wrongly) that it was in the OP. I didn't want to scroll back through 4 pages on my tiny phone screen so took a guess.

 

No problem Junior, I just didn't want anyone who hadn't read the entire thread to get the wrong idea. I take people's privacy quite seriously and didn't want anyone thinking I had started the thread with info I would not post on a public forum

 

No harm done

[Lady Muck]

"there are a dozen or so that I can think of of the top of my head, right now, basically rough sleeping but in a boat." - could not Prince William and Kate Middleton not go and give a hand to their subjects? I'm sure they have little else better to do...

What have the Royals got to do with rough sleeping?

Edited January 12, 2015 by Lady Muck

[Lady Muck]

I feel that as an organisation C&RT should have made the local Social Services aware of the situation, C&RT being a recognized waterway authority, the S.S. should have taken notice.

Help being refused, is very difficult to deal with, but at the end of the day, then if a person is a danger to themselves or others, then the police have the means to act.

 

Hopefully should this situation happen again, then the C&RT Welfare Officer, will be in a position to help. Most likely by getting other agencies involved, as soon as required.

Remember the welfare officer can only act on what he knows!

 

Bod

How do we know that CRT did nothing? Individual boater cases are not shared with anyone else, not marina neighbours, no one, but you cannot force people to get help if they don't want it. If the mooring fee has not been paid for years as the neighbour says, then I reckon CRT have known about this for some time and tried to do something. Last year they organised for a boater we knew, to go into residential care but in this case they went willingly.

[Athy]

What have the Royals got to do with rough sleeping?

I think Foxy was suggesting that they could do some charitable work, which might include work with homeless people.

[Bettie Boo]

I think Foxy was suggesting that they could do some charitable work, which might include work with homeless people.

 

And if I remember correctly William did do a night of sleeping rough a few years back, working in league with one of or a group of charities which were established to assist destitute peoples; whereby helping to raise awareness and consciousness.

 

I'm not positive, but I do believe William is still involved with some of the same charities.

[DeanS]

I can see his diary in my head.

 

 

Monday: Sleeping rough.

Tues: Lunch with granny in the palace

 

 

;-)

[Paul G2]

How do we know that CRT did nothing? Individual boater cases are not shared with anyone else, not marina neighbours, no one, but you cannot force people to get help if they don't want it. If the mooring fee has not been paid for years as the neighbour says, then I reckon CRT have known about this for some time and tried to do something. Last year they organised for a boater we knew, to go into residential care but in this case they went willingly.

 

If in fact the man's mooring fees haven't been paid for years, and if he's on a CRT mooring, then it seems like CRT has taken his welfare in concern and made a significant financial contribution to same vis a vis providing him with a mooring rent free.

 

As has been mentioned before, the NB Russia situation quite possibly involves mental health issues, and there surely is more that could be done if people with expertise in that field were to be involved. However, it does seem that some of the powers that be at CRT had a heart and did what they could within their limited abilities to try to help the man.

[Alf Roberts]

the facebook discussion says that fellow moorers tried to hire a pump while the boat was still afloat but couldn't get the right one. they then rang CRT but CRT don't have pumps any more.

it then sank that evening

 

 

( as covered in a novel by Lewis Carroll)

 

because of the front deck it's going to be a right bugger to refloated

Edited January 12, 2015 by Alf Roberts