nb Russia

[Bettie Boo]

just picked up on one of the sites I belong to on FB - the NB Russia has sunk, not sure if this is old news or not, but it looked like it just happened. And thought it may be of interest to some of you.

 

[alan_fincher]

I think it has just happened, as earlier pictures seem to show it on the way down, but ones apparently taken after it was getting dark show the whole hull fully under.

 

(EDIT: Removed spurious initial guess about the type of boat, which I now think I got wrong! )

 

Seems to be at or near Engineers Wharf?

 

I can't quite believe how cretinous or insensitive some of the comments of FaceBook are - clearly making dumb posts is not unique to CWDF!

 

EDIT:

 

A bit of "Googling" seems to say it is not full length, and is probably an amalgam of part of a former Fellows Morton & Clayton boat with an LMS "Station" boat's bow. Why I wrongly guessed from appearance that it was probably an LMS boat, I think.

 

I'm rather guessing this may be one of those where original identities are uncertain, but I don't know this boat.

Edited January 5, 2015 by alan_fincher

[Bettie Boo]

Agreed Alan, I just thought it might be of interest to some of the folks on here. I know nothing of the boat, and nor do I remember seeing it, but it looked to my untrained eye to be an oldish boat, with a fairly large cargo area.

 

It is very sad to see any boat sat on the bottom, but somehow even sadder if it's got historical significance, IMHO

[junior]

 

This is a Yarwoods built LMS Railway Boat, (or some say Station Boat), from the early 1930s, I think. Not one I know any detail of though.

 

Seems to be at or near Engineers Wharf?

 

 

I have next to no knowledge about historic boats, a drop in the ocean compared to you and others on this forum. I was however going to comment on the FB thread saying that I thought it was an LMS boat. I'm currently moored next to TEBAY so have become an expert on what the bow looks like and RUSSIA's is a carbon copy of TEBAY's (to my eyes anyway).

 

And yes it looks like Engineers Wharf to me.

 

Edit: Just seen your edit.

Edited January 5, 2015 by junior

[alan_fincher]

Original post edited, because although undoubtedly historic, I'm now uncertain what boat(s) this is, or made up from!

I was however going to comment on the FB thread saying that I thought it was an LMS boat.

Yes, not sure now!

 

I think may be this boat, which HNBC suggests may be as I describe in the edit.

 

I reckon if it has a "Station Boat" front end, and you guess "Station Boat" based only on a poor picture from the front of it sinking or sunk, then you are probably excused if not 100% accurate!

[Starcoaster]

That is defo the boat, and it is defo in Engineer's wharf.

[frangar]

Sorry if this is a bit off topic but what facebook group was this posted on? I'm just curious cos I follow a couple canal fb groups but haven't seen this so there might be another group which I would find informative.

 

Many thanks.

 

Cheers

 

Gareth

[GUMPY]

Russia when it belonged to Eddie Powell before he retired was a boat that I always lusted after, great lines and huge tug deck. Such a shame.

[junior]

Russia when it belonged to Eddie Powell before he retired was a boat that I always lusted after, great lines and huge tug deck. Such a shame.

I must admit, from the photos on Facebook, my first thoughts were that it was a lovely looking boat with nice lines.

Sorry if this is a bit off topic but what facebook group was this posted on? I'm just curious cos I follow a couple canal fb groups but haven't seen this so there might be another group which I would find informative.

Many thanks.

Cheers

Gareth

I saw it on London Boaters,

[baz gimson]

frangar, I saw it on Narrow Boat Users Group and it was cross posted on London Boaters, both FaceBook pages .

[frangar]

Cheers chaps....I will have a rattle around those pages!

 

Thanks

 

Gareth

[Bettie Boo]

yes it was Narrow Boat Users Group I first saw it as well

[Cloudinspector]

I have next to no knowledge about historic boats, a drop in the ocean compared to you and others on this forum. I was however going to comment on the FB thread saying that I thought it was an LMS boat. I'm currently moored next to TEBAY so have become an expert on what the bow looks like and RUSSIA's is a carbon copy of TEBAY's (to my eyes anyway).

And yes it looks like Engineers Wharf to me.

Edit: Just seen your edit.

I recently bought a DVD produced by Laurence Hogg about historic narrowboat identication. It's a very good introduction to the world of historic narrowboats.

[the barnacle]

very sad as you say to hear of any boat down, whats its situation today are they trying to raise it?

[SirJasper]

I live on Engineers Wharf. Russia has been taking on water for a couple of years now, mostly rain water coming into the cargo area and running back. all the boaters here have tried to help the owner, but he has refused our offers of help, he has been living onboard in conditions that fall well below those fit for human habitation, wading through 6 inches of water to get in or out of his boat. on Monday morning we were concerned Russia was finally going down, and contacted CRT and the emergency services to get the owner to safety, the police extracted him at about 10 am at which point we tried to get permission to attempt to Pump Russia out, this was hindered by some parasite, seeing an oppertunity to make a profit on the situation attempting to buy the boat, but we finally got rid of him and set off to his to hire a pump. unfortunately the pump we wanted was unavailable and the pump we managed to get was not up to the task. the only thing laura Raines, CRT moorings manager did was come down and take a photo, despite requests for help CRT did nothing. at about 7pm sadly Russia sunk, and no doubt CRT will take their time clearing up the situation, leaving her to rot, just as they did with the voulnrable Man who was struggling with his life onboard her.

[Lady Muck]

I live on Engineers Wharf. Russia has been taking on water for a couple of years now, mostly rain water coming into the cargo area and running back. all the boaters here have tried to help the owner, but he has refused our offers of help, he has been living onboard in conditions that fall well below those fit for human habitation, wading through 6 inches of water to get in or out of his boat. on Monday morning we were concerned Russia was finally going down, and contacted CRT and the emergency services to get the owner to safety, the police extracted him at about 10 am at which point we tried to get permission to attempt to Pump Russia out, this was hindered by some parasite, seeing an oppertunity to make a profit on the situation attempting to buy the boat, but we finally got rid of him and set off to his to hire a pump. unfortunately the pump we wanted was unavailable and the pump we managed to get was not up to the task. the only thing laura Raines, CRT moorings manager did was come down and take a photo, despite requests for help CRT did nothing. at about 7pm sadly Russia sunk, and no doubt CRT will take their time clearing up the situation, leaving her to rot, just as they did with the voulnrable Man who was struggling with his life onboard her.

I think this is what the new CRT welfare officer is for - also - who is the Waterways Chaplain in your area? So much of this about - I would complain to CRT and ask to speak to the welfare person at least.

[alan_fincher]

I think this is what the new CRT welfare officer is for - also - who is the Waterways Chaplain in your area? So much of this about - I would complain to CRT and ask to speak to the welfare person at least.

 

Yes, I agree,

 

It seems that in this case it is far too late for intervention that might have helped, but I certainly think it would make sense to arrange a conversation with Sean Williams, the new welfare officer appointed recently by CRT. I have had the opportunity to meet with him, and he seems a good man, though I fear he mayu get overwhelmed by all that could end up on his desk.

 

It would be interesting to know if this case was known to him, for example. Have CRT provided him with a file of names where strong concerns have already been made known to them?

 

I'm sure Sean will end up a very busy man indeed, but I feel sure he would make time for a sensible conversation about this. Whether or not he is already aware, it might cause him to delve into who knew what here, and see if improvements could be made in that area that make it less likely that similar things happen in the future.

[SirJasper]

I believe that the welfare officer was aware of the situation, prior to the boat sinking, and think he was called on the day itself, the police officers involved returned to check, but no one else as far as I am aware. I believe CRT were waiting until Russia sunk, because if they got involved beforehand they would have to find somewhere for the boat owner to live, but once it sunk he was homeless and the councils problem!

[Lady Muck]

Well I guess there was not much else you can do if offers of help are refused.

[Naughty Cal]

I believe that the welfare officer was aware of the situation, prior to the boat sinking, and think he was called on the day itself, the police officers involved returned to check, but no one else as far as I am aware. I believe CRT were waiting until Russia sunk, because if they got involved beforehand they would have to find somewhere for the boat owner to live, but once it sunk he was homeless and the councils problem!

What exactly do you think CRT should have done prior to the boat sinking?

[alan_fincher]

I still think "SirJasper" should have a conversation with Sean Williams, though.

 

Even if help was refused by the owner concerned, there still seems to be, (rightly or wrongly), some criticism of how CRT may have handled it, and it is in no small part because difficult cases like this exist that Sean has been appointed, in my view.

 

He is very approachable, and even if you can't now help "Russia's" owner, perhaps some lesson can be learned for future cases?

Edited January 9, 2015 by alan_fincher

[Rufford]

Why was the owner refusing help tho?

 

Not being funny, but every boat owner knows the water belongs outside the boat...

[MtB]

I live on Engineers Wharf. Russia has been taking on water for a couple of years now, mostly rain water coming into the cargo area and running back. all the boaters here have tried to help the owner, but he has refused our offers of help, he has been living onboard in conditions that fall well below those fit for human habitation, wading through 6 inches of water to get in or out of his boat. on Monday morning we were concerned Russia was finally going down, and contacted CRT and the emergency services to get the owner to safety, the police extracted him at about 10 am at which point we tried to get permission to attempt to Pump Russia out, this was hindered by some parasite, seeing an oppertunity to make a profit on the situation attempting to buy the boat, but we finally got rid of him and set off to his to hire a pump. unfortunately the pump we wanted was unavailable and the pump we managed to get was not up to the task. the only thing laura Raines, CRT moorings manager did was come down and take a photo, despite requests for help CRT did nothing. at about 7pm sadly Russia sunk, and no doubt CRT will take their time clearing up the situation, leaving her to rot, just as they did with the voulnrable Man who was struggling with his life onboard her.

 

 

Thank you for posting SirJasp', and welcome to the forum!

 

It seems from your post there is quite a bit of anger on the mooring about CRT failing to provide help when requested. Can you expand on what help you think they should have come up with? And was Laura Raines limited to taking photos because the chap was still steadfastly refusing offers of assistance perhaps?

 

I'm concerned to read you condemning CRT when I'm not sure what you expected of them. Turn up and pump out the boat perhaps, to save it from sinking? it appears to me they have a deliberate policy of NOT doing this, because otherwise they would end up responsible for keeping every sinker on the system floating. An endless task, once accepted.

 

MtB

[Wanted]

Unfortunatly refusal of assistance is not at all uncommon when working with vulnerable people, there are many reasons why, some of which suggest mental I'll health, embarrassment, and or fear. I speak from long and frustrating experience that it's difficult.

 

However, and not to personally attack Sean as I have never met him, but he is a housing officer by trade I believe. I don't belive that this particular experience is what is needed to work with somebody such as this guy. Sean maybe able to help him off of his boat with housing, but what about those that need support whilst on boats? To walk away from a person who needs help but is refusing is far from utilising the skills needed to be a decent welfare officer.

And welcome Sir Japser, we are practically neighbours, I'm down at spikes bridge

[Lady Muck]

Why was the owner refusing help tho?

 

Not being funny, but every boat owner knows the water belongs outside the boat...

Over the years, I've met many boaters who refuse help, often living in awful conditions. Living in cabin cruisers with no lining, narrowboats with the lining ripped out and no burner, there are a dozen or so that I can think of of the top of my head, right now, basically rough sleeping but in a boat.