anniewhere Posted December 28, 2014 Report Share Posted December 28, 2014 Hi everyone, hope you had a nice Christmas! Stupid question, but I just wanna make sure: I can use normal diesel from a petrol station for my narrowboat, right? I know red diesel is cheaper, but I might not have time to wait for a coal boat and not enough fuel to travel elsewhere. Just wanted to make sure using normal diesel won't harm the engine (Lister SR2). Sorry if this is a dumb question. Cheers and happy new year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
churchward Posted December 28, 2014 Report Share Posted December 28, 2014 (edited) Yes you can as you will have paid full duty on 100% of the fuel at a road petrol/service station outlet. Red diesel has pretty much the same make up of bio diesel content and is low sulphur these days as roadside white diesel. So the chemical make up is pretty much the same. Edited December 28, 2014 by churchward Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anniewhere Posted December 28, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 28, 2014 Ok thank you! So no harm mixing the 2 either? I.e. getting a bit of normal diesel, then fill up the tank later with red diesel when i get the chance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul's Nulife4-2 Posted December 28, 2014 Report Share Posted December 28, 2014 Hi everyone, hope you had a nice Christmas! Stupid question, but I just wanna make sure: I can use normal diesel from a petrol station for my narrowboat, right? I know red diesel is cheaper, but I might not have time to wait for a coal boat and not enough fuel to travel elsewhere. Just wanted to make sure using normal diesel won't harm the engine (Lister SR2). Sorry if this is a dumb question. Cheers and happy new year Hi ya, Certainly not a stupid question, Yes, Absolutely you can use Normal White Road Diesel in you NB engine. I have done many times when tanks are low and opportunities of a garage was convenient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebulae Posted December 28, 2014 Report Share Posted December 28, 2014 No problem at all. I have been told by my local fuel supplier that red may or may not have the same spec as white. We notice that the tractors seem to run better when we have to put white diesel in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sea Dog Posted December 28, 2014 Report Share Posted December 28, 2014 Sounds like you're about on fumes there Annie! It's a pretty much universally accepted good idea to keep your tank full in winter to avoid consensation in there, thus causing water in your fuel and potentially leading to issues such as diesel bug. You're probably gonna have to carry your road diesel, so I doubt you'll be filling it from that source, but you may wish to consider filling up at a better price somewhere on the canal system at the earliest opportunity. Good luck. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BD3Bill Posted December 28, 2014 Report Share Posted December 28, 2014 Ok thank you! So no harm mixing the 2 either? I.e. getting a bit of normal diesel, then fill up the tank later with red diesel when i get the chance? I do it all the time. No problem at all. I have been told by my local fuel supplier that red may or may not have the same spec as white. We notice that the tractors seem to run better when we have to put white diesel in. Agree. Sounds like you're about on fumes there Annie! It's a pretty much universally accepted good idea to keep your tank full in winter to avoid consensation in there, thus causing water in your fuel and potentially leading to issues such as diesel bug. You're probably gonna have to carry your road diesel, so I doubt you'll be filling it from that source, but you may wish to consider filling up at a better price somewhere on the canal system at the earliest opportunity. Good luck. Sound advice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtB Posted December 28, 2014 Report Share Posted December 28, 2014 No problem at all. I have been told by my local fuel supplier that red may or may not have the same spec as white. We notice that the tractors seem to run better when we have to put white diesel in. And conversely a friend of mine has a diesel fired Squirrel stove which runs like a pig on white diesel, yet is fine on red diesel bought from Dusty the fuel boat, so there must be a difference. Must ask him exactly what spec of red diesel he sells. But as others have said, my engine runs fine on white or red. No discernible difference. MtB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J R Posted December 28, 2014 Report Share Posted December 28, 2014 Its not a stupid question at all. As far as I am aware, regular diesel from the local forecourt is the same as red diesel in composition, except red has the 'excise' dye added to it to show that it is sold at a different tax rate to the white stuff. Its all low sulphur and about 5% bio. The rules changed a couple of years ago or so due to EU regulations. Red & white can be happily mixed. Obviously if you buy from the forecourt you will be charged the full vehicle rate; not good for the pocket but no harm for the engine. As we are now in the middle of a cold period, forecourt refinery suppliers put some sort of agent in the diesel to stop it from going into a treacle like state when frozen, therefore not flowing enough to work in a car engine. White diesel is not a bad idea on a boat in this respect during a prolonged period of freezing weather. We have used red & white mixed in the past with no problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ukdiggerboy Posted December 28, 2014 Report Share Posted December 28, 2014 was about to say the only difference is the dye and this time of year the anti waxing agent but can be happily mixed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogeriko Posted December 28, 2014 Report Share Posted December 28, 2014 Dont forget pretty much all narrowboat diesel engines will run on 100% biodiesel. They are the old style mechanical fuel pumps and not the new common rail injector system. There are plenty of websites that will tell you if your diesel pump is biodiesel compatible. I make my own from old frying oil that I buy on ebay and with the cost of chemicals it works out at about 33p a litre. Biodiesel with the exise duty paid can be found for around 1£ a litre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
furnessvale Posted December 28, 2014 Report Share Posted December 28, 2014 Ok thank you! So no harm mixing the 2 either? I.e. getting a bit of normal diesel, then fill up the tank later with red diesel when i get the chance?Keep your white diesel receipts to offset against future purchases of red canalside. George ex nb Alton retired Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchcrawler Posted December 28, 2014 Report Share Posted December 28, 2014 Keep your white diesel receipts to offset against future purchases of red canalside. George ex nb Alton retired Who is she going to show them to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
furnessvale Posted December 28, 2014 Report Share Posted December 28, 2014 Who is she going to show them to. HMRC when they carry out their frequent checks. :-) (I am, of course, assuming that unlike the rest of us, the OP is scrupulously honest and making correct percentage declarations.) George ex nb Alton retired Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dinz Posted December 28, 2014 Report Share Posted December 28, 2014 Where on K&A? Diesel boat doing a run in new year. Up Caen &Long pound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Brooks Posted December 29, 2014 Report Share Posted December 29, 2014 Dont forget pretty much all narrowboat diesel engines will run on 100% biodiesel. They are the old style mechanical fuel pumps and not the new common rail injector system. There are plenty of websites that will tell you if your diesel pump is biodiesel compatible. I make my own from old frying oil that I buy on ebay and with the cost of chemicals it works out at about 33p a litre. Biodiesel with the exise duty paid can be found for around 1£ a litre Agreed for transesterfied veg oil (proper bio-diesel) but if anyone tries it with filtered veg oil there are a lot of BMCs and older Perkins that will suffer injector pump damage unless the pump is modified. Veg oil is too viscous for DPA pumps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGoat Posted December 29, 2014 Report Share Posted December 29, 2014 A point that appears to have been missed is that the OP is only considering DERV because he can't obtain his normal supply of Red. If I'm correct it might be worth pointing out that some garages also sell Red fuel - that depends on whether there is sufficient demand for it, such as in rural areas or where there are a lot of plant contractors. As there can be quite a large price difference it's worth asking around?? (Don't mention that the fuel is wanted for a boat as the garage isn't supposed to sell Red for that purpose....) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naughty Cal Posted December 29, 2014 Report Share Posted December 29, 2014 Sounds like you're about on fumes there Annie! It's a pretty much universally accepted good idea to keep your tank full in winter to avoid consensation in there, thus causing water in your fuel and potentially leading to issues such as diesel bug. You're probably gonna have to carry your road diesel, so I doubt you'll be filling it from that source, but you may wish to consider filling up at a better price somewhere on the canal system at the earliest opportunity. Good luck. I have never really bought that theory as surely the biggest exposed surface in a fuel tank will likely be the top surface. So unless the tank is brimmed constantly this will still be exposed. For the last couple of winters Naughty-Cal has been ashore so we have run the fuel tanks down with the heating with no ill effects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
furnessvale Posted December 29, 2014 Report Share Posted December 29, 2014 A point that appears to have been missed is that the OP is only considering DERV because he can't obtain his normal supply of Red. If I'm correct it might be worth pointing out that some garages also sell Red fuel - that depends on whether there is sufficient demand for it, such as in rural areas or where there are a lot of plant contractors. As there can be quite a large price difference it's worth asking around?? (Don't mention that the fuel is wanted for a boat as the garage isn't supposed to sell Red for that purpose....) The only garage I have seen selling red was charging £1.00 a litre when Alton was charging 84p base price so a garage is not necessarily a cheaper option. I got the distinct feeling a lot of this red was finding its way into cars and taxis and that the garage was making sure it was getting a good profit. Professional users such as farmers would buy in bulk direct to the farm at a much cheaper price. George ex nb Alton retired Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naughty Cal Posted December 29, 2014 Report Share Posted December 29, 2014 The only garage I have seen selling red was charging £1.00 a litre when Alton was charging 84p base price so a garage is not necessarily a cheaper option. I got the distinct feeling a lot of this red was finding its way into cars and taxis and that the garage was making sure it was getting a good profit. Professional users such as farmers would buy in bulk direct to the farm at a much cheaper price. George ex nb Alton retired We used to get our red diesel from a Morrisons petrol station. It was 89ppl the last week bought. It was a commercial pump for the night heaters in the lorries and the refrigerated trailers. Customs and exise often used to sit and wait for people to use the pump. We were collared once but they were happy with illus explanation and that the car is petrol. Had it been diesel I expect they would have wanted to inspect it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sea Dog Posted December 29, 2014 Report Share Posted December 29, 2014 I have never really bought that theory as surely the biggest exposed surface in a fuel tank will likely be the top surface. So unless the tank is brimmed constantly this will still be exposed. A reasonable enough observation, but the fuller the tank is, not only is there less free metal surface but also less air in the tank as a whole to carry the moisture. I buy the theory based on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Smith Posted December 29, 2014 Report Share Posted December 29, 2014 You could always ask a farm to sell you some as I do for my plant, they are always after a bit of cash. Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
furnessvale Posted December 29, 2014 Report Share Posted December 29, 2014 You could always ask a farm to sell you some as I do for my plant, they are always after a bit of cash. Neil Pedant. Even a farmer needs to be a Registered Dealer in Controlled Oils (RDCO) if he is to legally resell rebated fuels. /Pedant, George ex nb Alton retired Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anniewhere Posted January 2, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2015 Where on K&A? Diesel boat doing a run in new year. Up Caen &Long pound. Ah I'm no longer on the K&A, guess my profile isnt up to date. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anniewhere Posted January 2, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2015 Thanks for your advice everyone! I'm sorted now. Wondering though, don't petrol stations somehow check if you're entitled to buy red? Wouldn't people just fill up their cars with red diesel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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