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MJG

What happened to the 'dead man's handle' another one for train buffs.

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Currently watching 'East coast trains' on Sky (yes sad I know).

 

Watching a driver in the cab who is talking in a very animated fashion about a previous incident he was involved in, both hands are off the controls. He was doing 120mph at the time.

 

Now when I were a lad doing that would have brought the train to a halt.

 

So the question is what stops a HST these days if the driver is somehow incapacitated at the controls?

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It's a pedal

 

Richard

Now that is interesting, I can see why that might work better than something they could slump over.

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Now that is interesting, I can see why that might work better than something they could slump over.

 

Except that in at least one fatal rail accident, I recall there were question marks about whether the driver had dumped his bag onto the pedal, to save him having to keep a foot on it.

 

As you say, maybe better to avoid unintended misoperation, but not tamper proof, I think.

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Another good thing with the pedal system, every now and then a buzzer sounds. The driver then has to take his foot off the pedal and then put it back on it again.

 

 

eta guess this must have been after the fatal that Alan mentions

Edited by John V

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Except that in at least one fatal rail accident, I recall there were question marks about whether the driver had dumped his bag onto the pedal, to save him having to keep a foot on it.

 

As you say, maybe better to avoid unintended misoperation, but not tamper proof, I think.

Doesn't the pedal have to be periodically released and re-depressed? That would defeat the bag trick.

 

MP.

 

ETA: Wikipedia knows all : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead-man%27s_vigilance_device

Edited by MoominPapa

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Except that in at least one fatal rail accident, I recall there were question marks about whether the driver had dumped his bag onto the pedal, to save him having to keep a foot on it.

 

As you say, maybe better to avoid unintended misoperation, but not tamper proof, I think.

No but given that it is not the only device in the cab to stop the train running away it won't get far. I can't remember the distances and it depends on the signal system deployed on the line but there are other buttons and alarms that must be cancelled within about 5 seconds. If the alarm is not cancelled or the signal acknowledged the train brakes will come on automatically.

 

There are a number of train control systems AWS, TPWS and ATP are among the more common ones. ERTMS is the latest but is only deployed on the MId Wales line as a trial at the moment I think.

 

The modern systems rely on multiple positive action devices to manage the train progress and passing of signals. This mean that hanging your coat on a switch or a bag on a foot pedal will not work and the train will soon come to a stop,

Edited by churchward

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I thought it was some sort of pedal but couldn't be sure. I think Michael Portillo 'cabbed' one on his railway series and explained it or rather the driver did

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Yeah, that's where I saw it, I'm an avid follower of "great railway journeys" that is where I saw it....the driver explained about the buzzer and releasing and re-pushing the foot pedal (I know, as sad as watching East Coast trains on Skye smile.png )

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Yeah, that' where I saw it, I'm an avid follower of "great railway journeys" that is where I saw it....the driver explained about the buzzer and releasing and re-pushing the foot pedal (I know, as sad as watching East Coast trains on Skye smile.png )

Great Railway Journeys. Thanks, went brain dead for a minute and couldn't remember the title :-)

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No but given that it is not the only device in the cab to stop the train running away it won't get far. I can't remember the distances and it depends on the signal system deployed on the line but there are other buttons and alarms that must be cancelled within about 5 seconds. If the alarm is not cancelled or the signal acknowledged the train brakes will come on automatically.

 

There are a number of train control systems AWS, TPWS and ATP are among the more common ones. ERTMS is the latest but is only deployed on the MId Wales line as a trial at the moment I think.

 

The modern systems rely on multiple positive action devices to manage the train progress and passing of signals. This mean that hanging your coat on a switch or a bag on a foot pedal will not work and the train will soon come to a stop,

 

Couldn't have said better myself!

Funnily enough I watched ERTMS in use close up yesterday on a trip home, down the Cambrian.

 

In the last 2 weeks I've visited (officially) the new computerised South Wales Control Centre in Cardiff, and the 1960's Cardiff Panel Box that will soon go into SWCC. Have to say that as an old fashioned lever puller I was surprised to find that I understood the newest system more than Cardiff Panel. Not sure I'd want to work either, but .................

 

(And to be pedantic ERTMS is used on the Cambrian Lines, from Sutton Bridge Junction to Aberystwyth and Pwllehlli. The Heart of Wales Line is from Craven Arms to near Llanelli, and is token operated.)

Edited by Graham Davis

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Couldn't have said better myself!

Funnily enough I watched ERTMS in use close up yesterday on a trip home, down the Cambrian.

 

In the last 2 weeks I've visited (officially) the new computerised South Wales Control Centre in Cardiff, and the 1960's Cardiff Panel Box that will soon go into SWCC. Have to say that as an old fashioned lever puller I was surprised to find that I understood the newest system more than Cardiff Panel. Not sure I'd want to work either, but .................

 

(And to be pedantic ERTMS is used on the Cambrian Lines, from Sutton Bridge Junction to Aberystwyth and Pwllehlli. The Heart of Wales Line is from Craven Arms to near Llanelli, and is token operated.)

OK good when spring comes I am intending to go for a trip on the line to Pwllheli.

 

I understand that the boxes on the North Wales lines are due to close and control passed to SWC soon.

 

If anybody wants some further description of train control systems you can look here

 

http://www.railway-technical.com/sigtxt7.shtml

Edited by churchward

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Does anybody know what they gadgets are that are positioned beside the throughout the area of each set of points? They're about 3 feet off the ground, and there's one every few feet beside each track. Presumably something to do with the safety and signalling, but I can't work out if they're sensors, indicators, or transmitters. Whatever they are, the firm that got the contract for making them mist be doing well, there are thousands of them!

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Does anybody know what they gadgets are that are positioned beside the throughout the area of each set of points? They're about 3 feet off the ground, and there's one every few feet beside each track. Presumably something to do with the safety and signalling, but I can't work out if they're sensors, indicators, or transmitters. Whatever they are, the firm that got the contract for making them mist be doing well, there are thousands of them!

If they are like yellow mushrooms then they are 'Axle Counters'.

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OK good when spring comes I am intending to go for a trip on the line to Pwllheli.

 

I understand that the boxes on the North Wales lines are due to close and control passed to SWC soon.

 

If anybody wants some further description of train control systems you can look here

 

http://www.railway-technical.com/sigtxt7.shtml

Good link thanks.

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Just watched the program back, not bad for generic telly. Amazing that the next place from Plymouth they can get a truck up against the track is 250miles away in London.

 

 

Daniel

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OK good when spring comes I am intending to go for a trip on the line to Pwllheli.

 

I understand that the boxes on the North Wales lines are due to close and control passed to SWC soon.

 

If anybody wants some further description of train control systems you can look here

 

http://www.railway-technical.com/sigtxt7.shtml

 

It's a good trip up the coast, especially as there are no signals to spoil the view!

 

Nearly all the boxes in Wales are going into SWCC, including North Wales and The Marches line. We are due to close in 2017, but................

The Salop - Crewe line is already there. Didn't get any pictures at SWCC but I got 2 photos of Cardiff panel yesterday.

Does anybody know what they gadgets are that are positioned beside the throughout the area of each set of points? They're about 3 feet off the ground, and there's one every few feet beside each track. Presumably something to do with the safety and signalling, but I can't work out if they're sensors, indicators, or transmitters. Whatever they are, the firm that got the contract for making them mist be doing well, there are thousands of them!

 

If they are oblong things on the top of a metre high pole then they are simply lights put up often where there is maintenance planned or where there are commonly faults

lighting.jpg

Sometimes the light heads are the other way around!

 

Axle counters aren't up poles! They are directly at rail level.

Edited by Graham Davis

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No they aren't lights or yellow mushrooms. On a stick about a metre high, they're horizontal about half a metre long and remind me of the old-fashioned digit displays with a long row of individual windows. There seem to be about a hundred of them, one every couple of metres alongside the tracks.

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It's a good trip up the coast, especially as there are no signals to spoil the view!

 

Nearly all the boxes in Wales are going into SWCC, including North Wales and The Marches line. We are due to close in 2017, but................

The Salop - Crewe line is already there. Didn't get any pictures at SWCC but I got 2 photos of Cardiff panel yesterday.

Oh I dunno I quite like seeing the signals mind you I prefer old fashioned signal arms being a Heritage signalman!

 

Care to post or PM a couple of your pics I would be interested to see.

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Like this ?N52FRvf.jpg

 

Those are the "horizontal" version I meant; LED light units fitted for maintenance purposes generally, but commonly being fitted in other areas. Some seem to be on all the time, others as required.

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Seems a lot of work/cost to wired them in permanantly for repair work, but then I guess most is done at night these days and points will need more than other areas.

 

Daniel

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