Good Sources For 12v Thin Wall Cable In Bulk, Please

[alan_fincher]

Another in what may be a long list of questions about trying to keep costs down on what looks like it will be a major refit!

 

Investigation of "Flamingo's" current cabin electrics indicates that on the 12 volt side, I am almost certainly better off starting again, than trying to use anything currently on the boat.

 

Being a 70 foot plus boat, combined cable runs are likely to use an awful lot of expensive cable - voltage drop will need to be carefully considered for some runs, particularly as it is a 12 volt boat. I have no idea yet of overall requirements, because I haven't thought about all I will need, but it certainly can be summed up as "lots", and in a wide variety of sizes.

I haven't fully decided, but will likely use much sheathed two-core thin wall cable - this kind of thing.....

 

Linky.

Prices seem to vary enormously, but many suppliers seem to only do 30m or at best 50m reels, which sounds more wastage to me than buying popular sizes in 100m.

So does anybody have experience of bulk buying this stuff please, and any recommended suppliers?

If it is cheaper, is it likely to be as good, or any danger it may be possible to buy stuff that isn't good enough?

An alternative might be to use far more single core, and run through plastic conduits. Does anybody have a view on advantages or disadvantages of each method, and whether one is likely to cost significantly more or less than the other, please?

[Sierra2]

Yes, be cautious if the price is considerably lower, there is some counterfeit stuff doing the rounds (I'm told). The copper is of a lesser grade and there is less of it. It should be obvious once in your hand to see and count the strands to confirm the mm2 size.

 

Iv'e used www.vehiclewiringproducts.eu for my build and had no issues with quality and service.

 

Chaz

Edited December 15, 2014 by Sierra2

[Phil Ambrose]

Alan I've always used Vehicle Wiring Products, maybe you could get an idea from them, try Google for their website.

Phil

[Chalky]

I'd also second vehicle wiring products. Whenever I've bought cable for the boat or the MG I've purchased from them.

[alan_fincher]

Thanks.

 

I'm well aware that VWP is a regular recommendation, but when I looked their site, if I need loads, yjey didn't seem particularly competitive, I thought.

 

Maybe I wasn't looking closely enough - it is a bit of a minefield, as people seem to quote it in so many ways, including claiming different current ratings between suppliers that seem to match on size and number of strands.

 

I'll take another look at VWP, as part of the search.

 

Some suppliers seem to offer twin as a round rather than a flat cable. That seems a bit odd to me, as it means more bulk from outer sheath than is really required - I think I would prefer flat for compactness, unless there is some advantage in using round that I am missing.

[Nickhlx]

I would have thought flat was better for heat dissipation too...

 

Nick

[FadeToScarlet]

I bulk bought 30m and 50m rolls from VWP for wiring Willow, and found that wastage wasn't too bad with the 30m rolls- it was a case of starting with the things furthest away first, and then saving the offcuts for the things closest. Even so, I've had to use about 50% more cable than I planned! as the boat gets more complicated from actually living on it and adding in things where they're useful!

 

If I were wiring Willow again, I would seriously consider running thick cables- like a trebled run of 10mm^2 so as to give 30mm^2 along the boat to distribution boards in each room, and then finishing off with 4mm^2 cable and the like, rather than running everything back to the main fuse board in the engine room- I think that would've saved a lot of cable length, and made the system a lot easier to install and update and change, along with not having a two or three inch diameter bundle of cables coming into the engine room! I really wish I'd done this!

 

Thinking about the cost of all the things near the fore end, each with 40m to 50m of cable attached.... It makes my wallet hurt, just thinking about it,

Edited December 15, 2014 by FadeToScarlet

[rjasmith]

Have you had a look at Farnell?

 

I got a whole lot of Tri-rated single core from them a few years ago and their prices were quite competitive, certainly better than VWP and various others at the time. Also there should be no problems with quality.

 

I know you may not want single core but the Farnell range is pretty enormous so it may be worth a look.

 

Richard

[Alan de Enfield]

The specifications for cable very fixed for insulation thickness - as you increase in CSA (Cross sectional area - mm²) the insulatiion thickness also increases

 

Whilst a 1mm² cable may have a 0.6mm thick insulation, a 6mm² may have 1.5mm insulation thickness.

 

BS6862 is the standard specification for vehicle wiring, whilst BS6500 is the norm for domestic (240v) wiring.

 

The insulation thickness is a function of voltage and when you see (for example) 300/500volt on a multicore cable that means that the insulation is 'OK' for 300 volts between cores and 500 volts between core and the sheath.

 

Having said that BS6862 tends to follow BS6500 insulation thickness - it just used different strand sizes to make up the CSA - example

 

BS6862 1mm² = 14 strands of 0.3mm copper

BS6500 1mm² = 32 strands of 0.2mm copper

 

If looking to use 'single core' than (as it is commonly known) type 2491X will be cheapest, and most readily available, from any Electrical wholesaler

 

Edit :

 

If you want truly thin wall cable then you need to look at aircraft cable which are polyoelfin insulated but be prepared to pay £££s per metre

Edited December 16, 2014 by Alan de Enfield

[GUMPY]

If that is the price you are looking at then tri rated will bE about half that cost

 

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/CA2dot5TRR.html

Yes I know you have to run two cables not one but.........

[Wiltshire Moonraker]

I've used Beal UK who are very competitive, always worth phoning for a better price if you are buying several reels.

 

http://beal.org.uk/automotive/automotive-thin-wall-cable/thin-wall-cable-2-x-28/0-30-2-0mm-25-amp-twin/prod_4353.html

[andyb116]

I tend to use AES, they do 100m rolls of thin wall cable, they also do cable bundles, ideal for all those smaller runs. No connection to the company, just a satisfied customer. As people have said you get what you pay for though and there is some cheap dodgy stuff about!

[by'eck]

Single cables will give you more versatility especially when wiring up lighting systems, and as you suggest protected within plastic trunking. I would aim to standardise on minimum of 3mm2 even though the gauge may not be needed in many applications, with greater cross-section for fridge etc. Using a variety of colours will make installation, fault finding and adding additional equipment easier, although I know many prefer to stick to the red and black positive/negative regime. This latter suits bulk buying, with cable markers at each end to identify.

[Mike Tee]

If doing a complete refit including new lights etc, have you thought about going 24v for the domestics? Obviously expensive if your current (pun not intended) lights etc are ok, but would simplify (and cheapen) your cable choice.

[rupertbear]

If I were wiring Willow again, I would seriously consider running thick cables- like a trebled run of 10mm^2 so as to give 30mm^2 along the boat to distribution boards in each room, and then finishing off with 4mm^2 cable and the like, rather than running everything back to the main fuse board in the engine room- I think that would've saved a lot of cable length, and made the system a lot easier to install and update and change, along with not having a two or three inch diameter bundle of cables coming into the engine room! I really wish I'd done this!

 

 

 

I too have been considering this method, creating a heavy gauge loop round the boat similar to a 230V ring main. In addition to the current carrying advantages it might also help protect against magnetic mines. Are there any reasons why this isn't a good idea?

[p6rob]

If I were wiring Willow again, I would seriously consider running thick cables- like a trebled run of 10mm^2 so as to give 30mm^2 along the boat to distribution boards in each room, and then finishing off with 4mm^2 cable and the like, rather than running everything back to the main fuse board in the engine room- I think that would've saved a lot of cable length, and made the system a lot easier to install and update and change, along with not having a two or three inch diameter bundle of cables coming into the engine room! I really wish I'd done this!

 

Thinking about the cost of all the things near the fore end, each with 40m to 50m of cable attached.... It makes my wallet hurt, just thinking about it,

It does seem like a logical approach. A pair of beefy wires daisy chained to two or three distribution points strategically placed about the boat, then wire each device from the nearest fuse box. Relays could feed power to headlight and horn and run light duty wiring for the switches at the stern.

Or... ...screw historic aesthetics, go high tech and install CAN-Bus.

[ditchcrawler]

If doing a complete refit including new lights etc, have you thought about going 24v for the domestics? Obviously expensive if your current (pun not intended) lights etc are ok, but would simplify (and cheapen) your cable choice.

I went 24 volts, it seemed a good idea in the pub that night, but you can't just go out and buy a water pump. LED lights are now much easier than finding 28volt halogen bulbs .

[Bod]

Use conduit/trunking.

Round for 12v. Square for 240v.

Makes installation simpler, and upgrades a doddle.

Leave a draw string place when finished, and don't cable tie the wires together!

Ensure there is at least 50% space unused in any conduit. Avoid sharp corners if possible.

Make sure junction boxes are accessible, after final fit-out.

Absolute rule No.1. Label both ends of every wire, in a way that will not fall off/fade in time.

Rule No.2. Make an accurate wiring diagram, and keep It up to date.(Including wire sizes and lengths)

Rule No.3 Keep it tidy. You should be able to follow a wire from start to finish, not having it disappear into a tangle never to be seen again.

 

Lessons well learnt from wiring capital equipment for various industries.

 

Bod

Edited December 16, 2014 by Bod

[Mike Tee]

I went 24 volts, it seemed a good idea in the pub that night, but you can't just go out and buy a water pump. LED lights are now much easier than finding 28volt halogen bulbs .

Yes you can

[Jon57]

Hi, all new to posting comments . But try www.beal.org.uk they supply the motor trade will give you discount if you haggle. I have no connection with this company but use them as they are just around the corner from me.

[xadmx]

hi i no this might sound a bit off to some people but try your local scrap yard, i always go to a yard by me there have rolls of brand new wire people have scraped in, i got about 1000ft of 16awg cable and about 20m of 16mm cable all for 40 quid.

[ditchcrawler]

Yes you can

OK let me rephrase that. Most chandlers and boat yards wont have one on the shelf.

[NMEA]

 

I too have been considering this method, creating a heavy gauge loop round the boat similar to a 230V ring main. In addition to the current carrying advantages it might also help protect against magnetic mines. Are there any reasons why this isn't a good idea?

No technichal reason at all, in fact it's the method called for in the NMEA0400 standard, the only real difference in your suggestion is the 0400 standard also requires a volt meter at each distribution fuse panel. Just take care with the volt drop calculations and do it for the whole planned install, leave a couple of spare bays in each panel for upgrades etc and allow for those too.

Edited December 16, 2014 by NMEA

[MtB]

I'm intrigued. Why would you need miles of expensive fat cable?

 

Are you turning into a shiny boater?

 

 

MtB

[rupertbear]

No technichal reason at all, in fact it's the method called for in the NMEA0400 standard, the only real difference in your suggestion is the 0400 standard also requires a volt meter at each distribution fuse panel. Just take care with the volt drop calculations and do it for the whole planned install, leave a couple of spare bays in each panel for upgrades etc and allow for those too.

 

Thanks. That's very reassuring to know.

 

I'm a little puzzled by the permanent voltmeters though. Could you explain the need for these? Thanks.

 

I'm intrigued. Why would you need miles of expensive fat cable?

MtB

 

Two main reasons:

 

To avoid running large bundles of wires back to a central distribution point with the consequent cable management issues.

 

To make it very much easier to add electrical equipment in the future, no matter where in the boat it is to be situated.

 

I haven't done the sums but I wouldn't expect the cable cost to be greater by any significant multiple. Worth it, in my opinion, for the convenience.

 

I would hope never to become too shiny but the boat will become my home and, rather than try to guess what equipment will be essential (beyond the obvious) or what redundant in the future, I want to be able to add as I go.