58' x13 widebeam in 57.6' lock on calder & hebble

[millimaize26]

Is this possible,

If not and you travelled from Manchester to end of Rochdale is there a winding hole big enough to turn as in my book it says max 50'

 

Thanks for the help,

[magpie patrick]

I've no idea if it's possible but surely you could turn in the junction at the top of Salterhebble locks?

 

And certainly you could turn at the junction of the Rochdale with the C&H in Sowerby Bridge itself

 

I am aware of the potential problem, having set off down the Huddersfield Broad canal in from the Narrow Canal in a boat some five feet too long for the locks, and then realising it was also five feet too long for the winding holes...

[Alan de Enfield]

http://www.penninewaterways.co.uk/calder/locks.htm

 

Probably not much help but have a read.

 

Being a 'fatty' you will not have any room to go diagonal, so I'd sugest that its unlikely.

 

However - are you 58' with front & rear fenders down, or just hull length, and if so is that with rudder at 90^o to the boat ?

[MtB]

I'd suggest locks are like boats, they are not rectangles. The length depends where on them you are measuring.

 

Even if your boat is only 56ft with the fenders UP and rudder at full deflection, the lock specification of 57ft 6in might turn out to be for a pair of narrowboats with bows tucked in either side of mitre gates rather than a single boat smack in the middle.

 

The only way is to try, and have a Plan B if it won't go through.

 

Is the C&H a canal designed for wide boats? IF so I's say you have a good chance of getting through given the tendency for 'margins for error' to be added on all over the place these days.

 

 

MtB

[chazzy]

You could give Shire Cruisers at Sowerby Bridge a call. I'm sure they would know your turning options at that end of the canal.

[millimaize26]

Thanks for your quick relies, the boat in question is my brothers, his first, builder insisted he needed the extra foot for vat free, I said he would be better with Extra half foot on the width but hey ho.

Luckily ours is 57' .

 

I think he is just going to have a go and a proper measure up which we havnt had chance to do yet.

Forgive ignorance but to be sure is the length to tip of bow if fenders are removed for instance.

 

Glad to hear he could wind, just worried about that with it saying max 50' in nicholsons guide. Though it's a little confusing as to what they're talking about, lock,tunnel, winding hole ...has

 

Would still hope to hear someone turn up and say they have done it, go gets crossed.....

[MtB]

Thanks for your quick relies, the boat in question is my brothers, his first, builder insisted he needed the extra foot for vat free, I said he would be better with Extra half foot on the width but hey ho.

Luckily ours is 57' .

 

 

That could be helpful. Take yours through and see if there is a foot of space free.

 

 

MtB

[millimaize26]

Does anyone know which locks are 57.5'.

Or are the all that length?

And if you have a nicholsons guide could you take a look at the magnified circle at sowerby bridge and tell me what the max 50' is apertaining to.

 

Thanks again

[Nick G]

The Rochdale Canal is navigable by full length narrow boats. We have winded Beatty (70 feet) at Salterhebble and at the end of the Halifax Branch. There is also plenty of room to wind at Sowerby Bridge. I suggest that your problems may arise in navigating the Manchester end of the Rochdale which has a very restricted channel; depending on your draft, you may struggle with a 13 foot beam. It was hard work with a narrow boat drawing 2 foot 10 inches.

[millimaize26]

Haaa Mike that's a good idea.....think I was concerned as to him getting stuck with a big reverse for him to turn round.

We're not new to boating but new to these waters as our previous boat was a narrowboat was 65' so couldn't venture that way.

I think my brother thinks I know everything!!!!!

Thanks Nick,

He best hurry before they come to sort his ballast out then. At the minute his bow thruster aperages are peeping above water!!!

Can I ask where you wind near sowerby bridge in your boat .

Sorry Mike just 're read your Reply . Thanks

Edited November 13, 2014 by millimaize26

[Lady Muck]

We are only 56'6", Narrowboat, in some locks we struggled, we shared the locks with a 57 footer but in some locks at Sowerby Bridge we could not both fit, we had to go separately and diagonally.

[millimaize26]

Next question.

Wakefield to broadcut, locks are big enough but though it doesn't show a winding hole , is there somewhere to wind before reaching the 57.5' locks on the Calder & hebble ?

[alan_fincher]

Does anyone know which locks are 57.5'.

Or are the all that length?

 

Opinion seems to settle on the very shortest being at Salterhebble, but there are different views as to which one.

 

A lockie there when we came through insisted it is the middle one, but someone who claims to have taken a narrow boat that was absolutely on the limits through them, (backwards) insists it is the top one.

 

I think you will struggle heavily with a full width boat that is a genuine 58 feet.

 

Is the 13 feet an accurate measurement? A lot of the Rochdale locks have their sides moved in visibly due to subsidence, accompanied by notices that say narrow boats must not lock through in pairs. I would have thought all would be OK for 13 feet, but something to be aware of.

 

I would not have wanted to meet a 13 foot beam boat on part of the run in to Manchester where there are sunken obstructions on both sides, and only a relatively narrow channel down the middle. There are certainly long stretches where 13 feet would not get past 7 feet.

[magpie patrick]

I'd suggest locks are like boats, they are not rectangles. The length depends where on them you are measuring.

 

Even if your boat is only 56ft with the fenders UP and rudder at full deflection, the lock specification of 57ft 6in might turn out to be for a pair of narrowboats with bows tucked in either side of mitre gates rather than a single boat smack in the middle.

 

The only way is to try, and have a Plan B if it won't go through.

 

Is the C&H a canal designed for wide boats? IF so I's say you have a good chance of getting through given the tendency for 'margins for error' to be added on all over the place these days.

 

 

MtB

 

It was designed for Yorkshire Keels. and the lock sizes are all over the place as another thread has established recently ("The only lock on the Ashby Canal"). Salterhebble are alleged to be the shortest, but I haven't been through them. The lower one at Salterhebble has a guillotine.

 

Personally I'd feel more comfortable going up if I wasn't sure I'd fit, at least you can see the things the boat might catch on then

[millimaize26]

We are only 56'6", Narrowboat, in some locks we struggled, we shared the locks with a 57 footer but in some locks at Sowerby Bridge we could not both fit, we had to go separately and diagonally.

 

 

Oh no, that sounds like it's a no no then.

Just like to say thank you for all your relies.

Reliable as ever.

 

If he does give it a go next year I will let you know how we got on.

 

Thanks again .

[MtB]

Thanks for your quick relies, the boat in question is my brothers, his first, builder insisted he needed the extra foot for vat free,

 

That is intriguing. The VAT free rules demand an ENORMOUS boat IIRC. Even the most huge widebeams barely qualify let alone one 58ft short.

 

Have the rules changed recently?

 

MtB

[millimaize26]

That is intriguing. The VAT free rules demand an ENORMOUS boat IIRC. Even the most huge widebeams barely qualify let alone one 58ft short.

 

Have the rules changed recently?

 

MtB

A 60' by 12' or 58 x 13 is enough to cover gross tonage requirements with a little modification on gunwhale height.

Also need to be liveaboard...

He has his qualifying Ship certificate..

Edited November 13, 2014 by millimaize26

[DaveP]

Next question.

Wakefield to broadcut, locks are big enough but though it doesn't show a winding hole , is there somewhere to wind before reaching the 57.5' locks on the Calder & hebble ?

 

Once you leave Wakefield, you're on the river to Broadcut Low lock - plenty of room to wind and immediately above it if there aren't any workboats on the offside. I'd suggest that attempting to move upstream of here would become tight. You'd be able to wind at Horbury in the entrance to the moorings (although there has been a bit of a mudbar on the offside there in recent times).

[Timleech]

 

Once you leave Wakefield, you're on the river to Broadcut Low lock - plenty of room to wind and immediately above it if there aren't any workboats on the offside. I'd suggest that attempting to move upstream of here would become tight. You'd be able to wind at Horbury in the entrance to the moorings (although there has been a bit of a mudbar on the offside there in recent times).

 

We were dragging through the mud in mid-channel on the upstream side of Horbury bridge.

Also tried & failed to get anywhere near the side at the visitor moorings, by the pub. Reasonable depth at the old working boat moorings, though.

 

Tim

[David Mack]

You can wind at the junction at Sowerby Bridge, at the end of the Halifax arm at Salterhebble and also at the entrance to the top lock at Salterhebble.

 

As a wide beam you will need to contact CRT to get the floating towpath under the M62 moved to allow you to pass.

[millimaize26]

You can wind at the junction at Sowerby Bridge, at the end of the Halifax arm at Salterhebble and also at the entrance to the top lock at Salterhebble.

As a wide beam you will need to contact CRT to get the floating towpath under the M62 moved to allow you to pass.

Oh gosh, didn't know about that one.!! Thanks

Once you leave Wakefield, you're on the river to Broadcut Low lock - plenty of room to wind and immediately above it if there aren't any workboats on the offside. I'd suggest that attempting to move upstream of here would become tight. You'd be able to wind at Horbury in the entrance to the moorings (although there has been a bit of a mudbar on the offside there in recent times).

Thank you. That helps immensely..

[Timleech]

Just recalling that in 1970-ish, we went as far as Horbury with our Leeds & Liverpool Short Boat (62' long). we were given conflicting local advice, some said we would not fit up the Figure of Three locks, though this was not universally agreed (among local 'experts', there was still commercial traffic along there at the time). We decided not to try.

 

Tim

[Mac of Cygnet]

I'm a bit confused about which way you are going, as Post #1 seems to contradict #12. However, it would seem a bit silly to go all the way to the Salterhebble locks (which are the shortest) only to have to go all the way back if you can't get through, although in fact you can wind immediately above or below the two shortest.

 

To me it would be sensible to drive to Salterhebble with a surveyor's tape measure and measure the distance from the cill to the closed bottom gates in the empty locks, paying due attention to the shape of the cill compared to the stern of the boat, if you intend to go down. Wouldn't that work?

 

Edited to say there is easy parking right by the Salterhebble locks.

Edited November 13, 2014 by Mac of Cygnet

[Neil2]

There was a guy some time ago that had been advised he should be able to bring his yacht down the Calder&Hebble and Rochdale as a means of getting from coast to coast, despite having something like a 4 foot draught, IIRC.

 

After asking the question on this forum he wisely decided against it, I'd suggest you do the same. There's absolutely no way a w/b 58' LOA will fit in those locks.

[millimaize26]

I'm a bit confused about which way you are going, as Post #1 seems to contradict #12. However, it would seem a bit silly to go all the way to the Salterhebble locks (which are the shortest) only to have to go all the way back if you can't get through, although in fact you can wind immediately above or below the two shortest.

 

To me it would be sensible to drive to Salterhebble with a surveyor's tape measure and measure the distance from the cill to the closed bottom gates in the empty locks, paying due attention to the shape of the cill compared to the stern of the boat, if you intend to go down. Wouldn't that work?

 

Edited to say there is easy parking right by the Salterhebble locks.

I can understand the confusion, I was just trying to ascertain how far up the Rochdale and how far down the Calder hebble to see the section between the two that he would miss.