Buying through a broker

[Clare De Loon]

Hi there,

Just wondered if anyone could shed some light on the process of buying a boat through a broker.

 

I have made an offer on a boat which has been accepted subject to survey and water trial. The broker is asking for a deposit along with a signed contact. I am unsure about paying this as I haven't been on the trial and don't yet know how the boat handles or if all the systems work.

 

Is it usual practice to leave a deposit prior to being able to take the boat out?

 

Thanks for any advice.

[Delta9]

If you want to take the boat out for a test run it would be normal to do so before making an offer. Once you have made an offer and it has been accepted (subject to survey) it is normal for them to expect a deposit.

[Sabcat]

Hi there,

Just wondered if anyone could shed some light on the process of buying a boat through a broker.

 

I have made an offer on a boat which has been accepted subject to survey and water trial. The broker is asking for a deposit along with a signed contact. I am unsure about paying this as I haven't been on the trial and don't yet know how the boat handles or if all the systems work.

 

Is it usual practice to leave a deposit prior to being able to take the boat out?

 

Thanks for any advice.

 

It depends on whether you think the boat is going to sell from under you before you can arrange a trial and survey. Personally I wouldn't want to pay anything out until I was sure I wanted the boat and pre-survey I wouldn't be. I know you can get a deposit back if the survey turns up issues but this isn't always easy and the broker might not let you have a survey done without a deposit, I'd question why though.

 

It's down to how much you think you want the boat and how likely it is to get snapped up if you faff about.

[David Mack]

Would you buy a used car from a dealer without a test drive first? For me having to sign a contract or hand over any money before being permitted to experience how the boat handles would be a deal breaker.

[Clare De Loon]

Thanks for the replies.

Would you buy a used car from a dealer without a test drive first? For me having to sign a contract or hand over any money before being permitted to experience how the boat handles would be a deal breaker.

This is how I see it and tbh would have rather have taken it out prior to making an offer but was told that the water trial could only be arranged after an offer had been made and accepted. Thanks again for clarifying, this is the first boat that I've bought and was unsure of the correct procedure.

[Delta9]

Thanks for the replies.

This is how I see it and tbh would have rather have taken it out prior to making an offer but was told that the water trial could only be arranged after an offer had been made and accepted. Thanks again for clarifying, this is the first boat that I've bought and was unsure of the correct procedure.

Most brokers would let you take it out for a trial before an offer. Are you buying from Whilton/Venetian?

Edited November 5, 2014 by Delta9

[MtB]

Is it usual practice to leave a deposit prior to being able to take the boat out?

 

 

 

No. This stinks. Any broker with any integrity would be more than pleased to take you out for a trial run prior to requesting a deposit.

 

I'd run a mile from this bunch of sharks if I were you.

 

Or if you really REALLY WANT to buy this boat, ask to be put in touch with the owner for some spurious reason (want to see their purchase receipt for example) then explain to them what's going on. They may well kick the broker into behaving himself.

 

 

MtB

[Alan de Enfield]

You need to really, really read the contract small print - when looking at a boat at Whilton I asked about the return of a deposit if I decided not to proceed if a survey identified problems - Answer - no.

 

The deposit is not refundable unless the seller changes their mind.

 

Some contracts may say the deposit is refundable in the event of more than x% of the purchase price is needed to correct faults

Example - Contract says 10% so a £30,000 boat identified as needing £5000 spending on it,

£5k exceeds 10% so you can have your deposit back or re-negotiate purchae price with the seller.

[Southern Star]

My contract said that the deposit was refundable if the survey showed up any faults related to safety (I don't have it with me at the moment but can post the exact wording when I get home). As it happened, the survey did flag up a perished rubber gas pipe and according to my understanding of contract law, this would have been enough for me to have voided the contract had I wanted to even though it cost pennies to replace.

[Timx]

As an add on to this, if you buy from a broker, is that an assurance or more importantly an insurance that the boat is theirs to sell. As if you buy from an independent seller you want to see history paperwork etc and even when you have assured yourself it all seems ok and you pay them the money, you are never still sure.I have only bought once for 9 k, my next purchase will be 50 to 70 k so more of a worry.I cant see an answer to this...that would ever make me relaxed in buying a boat.

[Paul C]

My contract said that the deposit was refundable if the survey showed up any faults related to safety (I don't have it with me at the moment but can post the exact wording when I get home). As it happened, the survey did flag up a perished rubber gas pipe and according to my understanding of contract law, this would have been enough for me to have voided the contract had I wanted to even though it cost pennies to replace.

 

Normally if safety issues are discovered (often little things such as the gas hose etc) there is the expectation that the seller would correct these at his cost (or if agreeable, discount the offered price by the amount of the work). It would be interesting if your contract had this as an option. For example whilst replacing the hose or other minor works, if done, would 'solve' the problem here, something else might be a job which would take a lot of time and the buyer might be in a hurry to buy, and willing to buy one of two or three boats at a brokerage in his price range. Compare with the analogy of buying a cheap car the day after one's existing car breaks down terminally, because one needs transport ASAP.

 

Often when a survey is done, the surveyor will identify in detail the problem areas/rectification work required but won't quote a price for it to be done, because they are not a boat yard which does that type of work, and thus couldn't quote reliably on their behalf.

[Woodstock]

Thanks for the replies.

This is how I see it and tbh would have rather have taken it out prior to making an offer but was told that the water trial could only be arranged after an offer had been made and accepted. Thanks again for clarifying, this is the first boat that I've bought and was unsure of the correct procedure.

This was and probably still is simialr to the routine at BWML Sawley- They would only allow a test drive after an offer had been made and a deposit paid. we didn't have to sign a contract at that point and should we have withdrawn the offer after the test drive the deposit would have been repaid. Their justification at the time was that they were fed up of people who had no real interest in boats wanting a free chug up the river on a sunny afternoon

Edited November 6, 2014 by Woodstock

[Zig Zag]

So youd normally make a offer - then deposit subject survey ?

What about if your having a valuation? You don't want to agree on the price you think, only to find out surveyor says it's worth less?

 

don't mean cos it needs 10 grand of work as I see that would come under the subject to survey. If he just says its only worth so much...

Edited November 6, 2014 by The zig zag

[Alan de Enfield]

So youd normally make a offer - then deposit subject survey ?

What about if your having a valuation? You don't want to agree on the price you think, only to find out surveyor says it's worth less?

 

don't mean cos it needs 10 grand of work as I see that would come under the subject to survey. If he just says its only worth so much...

 

That doesnt seem to 'stack-up'

 

You see a boat you like, you arrange a valuation/survey (cost £1000) you make an offer based on the surveyors valuation, and the seller says NO - you have now lost £1000. How many times are you going to do that before your budget is 'blown'

 

You make an offer on what the boat is worth to YOU and subject to survey.

[MtB]

 

That doesnt seem to 'stack-up'

 

You see a boat you like, you arrange a valuation/survey (cost £1000) you make an offer based on the surveyors valuation, and the seller says NO - you have now lost £1000. How many times are you going to do that before your budget is 'blown'

 

You make an offer on what the boat is worth to YOU and subject to survey.

 

Quite. There is no 'Glass's Guide' for boats, valuation is a matter of opinion.

 

Ask three surveyors to value a boat and you'll get three different values. Possibly varying quite widely.

 

MtB

[Zig Zag]

True I agree that's my point your budget could be gone in no time. So then what your saying is theres no point in getting a valuation. But just cos something's in budget, Doesnt mean you want to get ripped off. As as far as I was awear brokers was known for highly inflated prices.

 

I get that the boats worth what it is to you. Guess my point is if youre new to boats your having to trust the the vender selling is giving you a honest value... But that kinda don't sit right to me...

[MtB]

True I agree that's my point your budget could be gone in no time. So then what your saying is theres no point in getting a valuation. But just cos something's in budget, Doesnt mean you want to get ripped off. As as far as I was awear brokers was known for highly inflated prices.

Where did you get THAT from?????????

 

Brokers need to shift boats quickly and easily with minimum effort in order to maximise their commission income. Under-valuing is a better way to do this so the pressure is on brokers to keep seller price expectations down and under control!

 

 

I get that the boats worth what it is to you. Guess my point is if youre new to boats your having to trust the the vender selling is giving you a honest value... But that kinda don't sit right to me...

 

You don't have to trust the seller, ever. You have to trust your own judgement and that of any advisers you chose to employ. Maybe it's best if you buy a cottage instead of a boat! Estate agents are very trustworthy so I've heard. Let us know how you get on

 

MtB

[Alan de Enfield]

True I agree that's my point your budget could be gone in no time. So then what your saying is theres no point in getting a valuation. But just cos something's in budget, Doesnt mean you want to get ripped off. As as far as I was awear brokers was known for highly inflated prices.

 

I get that the boats worth what it is to you. Guess my point is if youre new to boats your having to trust the the vender selling is giving you a honest value... But that kinda don't sit right to me...

 

A boat will sell at market value, and that value is whatever the buyer is prepared to pay.

I may be prepared to pay £30,000, whilst you think it is only worth £25,000 - what is the market price ?

 

You need to make some 'boaty' friends who may have a bit of experience in buying/selling and take them with you on viewings.

You need to decide what features are "worth" (£'s) having and what are not - get a price you are prepared to offer in mind for each boat you view.

 

Its not a 'science', there are no published price lists, virtually every narrowboat is different internally and when you find the right one it will shout "buy-me" and price will barely come into it.

 

A seller, selling through a broker will actually be getting fair bit below the price that the boat is sold at due to the brokers commission (5% - 10%) so It is wise to buy directly (eg ApolloDuck) if you can and argue that the seller is saving a brokers commission and therefore can accept a lower price and actually receive the same amount.

[PaulG]

As as far as I was awear brokers was known for highly inflated prices.

 

In my own, albeit somewhat limited experience, the broker did a good job for me in persuading the owner of the boat that I was interested in that the owner's asking price was too high and he should settle for a lower figure.

[Zig Zag]

Fair play. I guess it's when you hear things like I was told for a grp at 3k budget loot at 5/6k boats. If you're not sure you guided by advise, hence I assumed wise to get a surveyors valuation.

 

Oh and no I'm not thinking now cos of that advise you can get a 30k narrowboat for 15 grand!

[Alan de Enfield]

Fair play. I guess it's when you hear things like I was told for a grp at 3k budget loot at 5/6k boats. If you're not sure you guided by advise, hence I assumed wise to get a surveyors valuation.

 

Oh and no I'm not thinking now cos of that advise you can get a 30k narrowboat for 15 grand!

 

I did offer £18k for a boat that was at Whilton and was priced at £29.950.

Thats was what it was worth to me with my thinking of what it needed to have done to it.

[Naughty Cal]

True I agree that's my point your budget could be gone in no time. So then what your saying is theres no point in getting a valuation. But just cos something's in budget, Doesnt mean you want to get ripped off. As as far as I was awear brokers was known for highly inflated prices.

 

I get that the boats worth what it is to you. Guess my point is if youre new to boats your having to trust the the vender selling is giving you a honest value... But that kinda don't sit right to me...

If you are taking finance against the boat they will want an independent valuation before giving you the money.

[Clare De Loon]

Thanks all, plenty of advise to go on there. Having not bought a boat before I wasn't sure on the proceedure so wanted to confirm before handing over my money! As it stands I shall be taking her out for a trial this weekend and if this goes ok will pay a deposit. The survey will follow soon after.

 

You need to really, really read the contract small print - when looking at a boat at Whilton I asked about the return of a deposit if I decided not to proceed if a survey identified problems - Answer - no.

 

The deposit is not refundable unless the seller changes their mind.

 

Some contracts may say the deposit is refundable in the event of more than x% of the purchase price is needed to correct faults

Example - Contract says 10% so a £30,000 boat identified as needing £5000 spending on it,

£5k exceeds 10% so you can have your deposit back or re-negotiate purchae price with the seller.

I've checked the contract and it does say that the deposit is refundable if more than 5 % of the purchase price is needed.

 

Other than that I'm happy with the price we've agreed on (providing all is well with the survey). I've looked far and wide over a length of time and believe that I've found the right boat at the right price for me.

[Alan de Enfield]

Thanks all, plenty of advise to go on there. Having not bought a boat before I wasn't sure on the proceedure so wanted to confirm before handing over my money! As it stands I shall be taking her out for a trial this weekend and if this goes ok will pay a deposit. The survey will follow soon after.

 

I've checked the contract and it does say that the deposit is refundable if more than 5 % of the purchase price is needed.

 

Other than that I'm happy with the price we've agreed on (providing all is well with the survey). I've looked far and wide over a length of time and believe that I've found the right boat at the right price for me.

 

Well done & good luck with the test drive and (hopefully) subsequent survey.

[Neil2]

You will find that many of the larger brokers do require a deposit prior to a "sea trial". But that doesn't mean you can't have a provision in the agreement that if you are unhappy in any way with the trial, you get your deposit back, unequivocally.

 

Unfortunately you'll find that, for example, Whilton/Venetian have a standard contract that doesn't allow for this, which is one reason why I never looked at any of their boats.

 

I suppose you could argue that what the likes of Whilton do is appropriate for the part of the market they operate in.