Newt Relocation Licence Refused - Montgomery Canal

[Taslim]

 

Ah yes, bats. They are EVERYWHERE. It's hard to moor up of an evening and fail to see them flitting about in the dusk, yet their rarity is still cited as the reason the Greywell Tunnel (for example) cannot be repaired and the Basingstoke Canal opened up to the end.

 

Similarly thousands of churches all over the land are suffering damage from bat droppings all over the interiors and they are prevented by law from getting rid of the pests.

 

Madness, I tell you!

 

MtB

As above ^.

 

Around here we feed the bats. The kids amuse them selves at dusk by flicking bits of mince or catfood in the air to see the bats grab it (I must help the kids get a life)but our lockal, goverment funded, bunny hugger says we are being naughty and we are not allowed to walk through the disused railway tunnel 'cause it's a "designated roost".

 

He's not happy about the badger walking into the kitchen to see if the dogs & cats had left anything in their bowls ether & when the vixen, Jenifer, walked up and waited to have her back scratched I thought a 999 call might be needed for the sad chap.

 

If anyone needs a bucket of G.C. newts feel free to call by. But only if you have a bat licence. We can also do frogs, toads, sloworms and grass snakes.

[TaffyRon]

Yeah they do fine job they have managed to keep the UK population of Hen Harriers down to 4 nesting pairs.

 

They are managing the country really well and with great respect.

How many poachers have managed to keep the wild salmon population in good fettle?

[Guest]

Unfortunately when you have a load of folk sat in offices twiddling their thumbs they have to come up with ways of justifying their existence. Apparently NE employs 2,000 thumb-twiddlers and I got seriously boggled eyed trying to fathom out the management structure.

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/357466/ne-management-arrangement-chart.pdf

 

In times of austerity one does wonder how these sorts of guanos manage to survive.

 

I too am all for protecting the country side but is it really necessary to go to these lengths to do it?

Edited November 1, 2014 by The Dog House

[TaffyRon]

If they want to build stuff it should be in east anglia, nothing there except MPs second homes oh wait.....

[Jerra]

 

You must have been reading the Daily Mail - you should try the RSPB and Conservancy reports instead :

 

"According to the RSPB there are 646 pairs of hen harriers in the UK, and many can be seen moving around the country throughout the year. We are not about to see the last hen harrier in England".

 

"Moorland managed for grouse shooting also only accounts for around one-fifth of the uplands of England and Wales, yet the breeding success of hen harriers on the remaining four-fifths, which includes land managed by the RSPB, has been no better.

"Who is to blame there, as it cannot be grouse moor managers?"

 

Research by the Game and Wildlife Conservation Trust (GWCT) found that controlling predators like foxes and crows to protect red grouse on moorland helped birds of prey, including hen harriers.

I have been a member of the RSPB since 1974 and I helped in the recent BTO survey over the years 2007 -2011 and what is more I am able to read and notice detail which you clearly can't.

 

I said (quotig from an RSPB source) there were 4 pairs of Hen Harriers in ENGLAND this year. Strangely the UK is a tiny bit bigger than the England or hadn't you noticed?

 

I think you will find that the Trough of Bowland should be one of ENGLAND's strongholds of the Hen Harrier but isn't due to the fact there is heavy grouse shooting. Many nests have been found and monitored only to be robbed or unfledged young killed. Who other than misguided game keepers would have a reason to do this? I say misguided as the main foods of the Hen Harriers are voles and pipits

 

Of course we aren't going to see the last in England because they move around between Scotland and the rest of the country we also get continental birds over here just as ringing recoveries show some of the UK hatched birds go to the continent.

 

BTO figures (an organisation which researches rather than just protects) shows c662 pairs in the UK 88-89 increasing to 860 pairs in the UK in 2004 followed by an 18% decline in 2010. However please note that is for the UK not England. Incidentally in case you don't know how these figures are obtained during 2007 -11 every tetrad (2 x 2 Km square) was surveyed at least twice in winter and twice in summer (separate years for each survey).

 

I hope this helps a little to clear up your misconceptions.

 

 

 

 

P.S. I have never read the daily mail in fact I haven't taken a daily paper in nearly 40 years.

[furnessvale]

Newt rustling anybody. Drive by newt relocation. HS2 brought to a halt by sudden influx of newts.

 

To be honest I think it's mad. Newts may be endangered but a relocation could give them a better chance of expanding their range.

You may be joking but, given that EVERY construction job of any significance grinds to a halt with the discovery of the "so called" rare Great Crested Newt, I am 100% convinced that they are in fact imported by antis.

 

If not, then they are in no way rare, and should be delisted.

 

George ex nb Alton retired

[nebulae]

Unbelievable that a government quango can obstruct a major refurbishment of a publicaly owned asset.(Well,ultimately Cart holds the waterways in trust for all of us )The millions of pounds spent so far,and thousands of hours of voluntary labour can not be compromised by the refusal of a non accountable body English Nature,to relocate some newts.

[Ray T]

Unbelievable that a government quango can obstruct a major refurbishment of a publicly owned asset.(Well,ultimately Cart holds the waterways in trust for all of us )The millions of pounds spent so far,and thousands of hours of voluntary labour can not be compromised by the refusal of a non accountable body English Nature,to relocate some newts.

 

At the recent Press Briefing Richard Parry said that Natural England are proving very difficult to deal with and appear to be in no rush to join in any meaningful conversation with regards to either The Ashby or Montgomery canals.

[David Mack]

Unbelievable that a government quango can obstruct a major refurbishment of a publicaly owned asset.(Well,ultimately Cart holds the waterways in trust for all of us )The millions of pounds spent so far,and thousands of hours of voluntary labour can not be compromised by the refusal of a non accountable body English Nature,to relocate some newts.

In a professional capacity I have worked on a range of public sector projects and they all have to jump through all the environmental hoops. Can you imagine the fuss if the public sector promoted HS2 project was given permission to buldoze its way through all the environmental protections?

[Machpoint005]

You may be joking but, given that EVERY construction job of any significance grinds to a halt with the discovery of the "so called" rare Great Crested Newt, I am 100% convinced that they are in fact imported by antis.

 

If not, then they are in no way rare, and should be delisted.

 

George ex nb Alton retired

 

A lot of projects take the time to look for GC newts (or other rare amphibians) and then carry on when no evidence of them is found. The 'delays' are often just a period of making sure, allowed for in the schedule. Which is, on balance, a good thing.

[furnessvale]

 

A lot of projects take the time to look for GC newts (or other rare amphibians) and then carry on when no evidence of them is found. The 'delays' are often just a period of making sure, allowed for in the schedule. Which is, on balance, a good thing.

Fair enough. I can only talk about major railway projects which are my special interest.

 

I can assure you that most of them actually find this "rare" creature. Perhaps they like railways. Does that make me a newt?

 

George ex nb Alton retired

[Laurence Hogg]

I don't hold much hope for this canal, They started it when I was just a kid and i'll be dead before they finish.

Casp'

 

As a comparison wasn't the Welshpool & Llanfair railway restoration started about the same time? Just look at what that's achieved compared to the waterway neighbour!

[Pie Eater]

I have assisted with the block laying work parties in the past but draw the line at the recent work of erecting newt fencing. That said I will probably return next year when the proper canal restoration continues.

 

Steve

[b0atman]

Newt fencing the newts wonder around and find a way out where they are trapped in a bucket for counting later unless the crows eat them first as has happened.

[Traveller]

If they want to build stuff it should be in east anglia, nothing there except MPs second homes oh wait.....

They are going a pretty good job of building over East Anglia already, thanks :-)

 

Eite for sticky "d" key on keyboard

Edited November 17, 2014 by Traveller

[Machpoint005]

Just a thought -- probably dealt with by the experts already -- if the newts are happy in a neglected / remaindered / derelict waterway, is there any evidence that they wouldn't be happy in a navigable one?

[Jerra]

Newt habitat suitability is calculated by a complex system of Habitat Suitability Index (HSI) this considers the part of the UK they are in, the pond area, the permanence of the water course, water quality, shade, water fowl, fish, the number of other ponds close by, the terrestrial habitat and macrophytes (aquatic plants large enough to be seen by the naked eye) discounting Duckweed.

 

I am no expert but I would guess water quality may drop, There will almost certainly be more water fowl and macrophytes will decrease. So that would suggest to me that while the newts may not die out completely they wouldn't do as well as they have been doing.

[b0atman]

Surely there should be a name change as every planning blight is caused by Great crested newts we never hear of the common ones.

[Jerra]

Surely there should be a name change as every planning blight is caused by Great crested newts we never hear of the common ones.

Obviously you won't hear much about the commoner species (Palmate & Smooth) as they are more common and not in decline as the Great Crested has been until recently. I believe the decline has been halted but it will be a long time until they are back to anywhere near what they were.

[Machpoint005]

Newt habitat suitability is calculated by a complex system of Habitat Suitability Index (HSI) this considers the part of the UK they are in, the pond area, the permanence of the water course, water quality, shade, water fowl, fish, the number of other ponds close by, the terrestrial habitat and macrophytes (aquatic plants large enough to be seen by the naked eye) discounting Duckweed.

 

I am no expert but I would guess water quality may drop, There will almost certainly be more water fowl and macrophytes will decrease. So that would suggest to me that while the newts may not die out completely they wouldn't do as well as they have been doing.

 

 

Obviously you won't hear much about the commoner species (Palmate & Smooth) as they are more common and not in decline as the Great Crested has been until recently. I believe the decline has been halted but it will be a long time until they are back to anywhere near what they were.

 

Thanks for both posts -- I've learned something today.

[Pie Eater]

According to the Shropshire Union Canal Society website the newt licence has now been granted.

 

Steve

[Paul C]

According to the Shropshire Union Canal Society website the newt licence has now been granted.

 

Steve

 

I bet they aren't forced to display two copies in their side windows!

[Maffi]

I worked at Shipton quarry for a while a few years back. It is the biggest hole in Oxfordshire and very necessary to the future of the county as all other big holes are coming to the top. The Nature chaps insisted on relocating the newts (not crested) The task took months and £90,000 in newt fencing. The chap who collected the newts placed them in the 'safe' area every day. The 'safe' area was under a rookery. We had the fattest crows in the country.

 

That and the Little Ringneck Plovers caused the company to go bust. The LRPs nest site was out of bounds to all. The chicks hatched and were doing well until the night a fox came into their lives. The Nature man said "Ho hum that's life", and we never saw him again. I did think his comment "Oh what a lovely natural habitat" was a bit much considering it was once a 100 ft hill and was now a 50 ft + deep hole and told him so. He said. "Well you know what I mean". I told him I didn't.

 

When I asked the boss nature man how come the animals arrived in the quarry he said, "When the quarry went quite the animals moved in". So I asked if they would move out now that the quarry was working again. "Oh yes," he said, "These animals don't like noise."

 

"So what was the point?" I asked as I left the quarry with my redundancy pay in my pocket.

Edited May 14, 2015 by Maffi

[StarUKKiwi]

because there's newt worse than unlicenced continuously moored newts that have newt better to do than go newtwhere else.

Excellent analysis