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Grrrrrrrrrrrrrr! Batteries!


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Grrrrrrrrrr! Batteries! Just when you think there can't possibly be anything else to make them go flat - there is. I'm so frustrated with them. Can anyone help at all please? I am at Roydon after the lock and just past the second bridge. One minute I have light the next i don't. I have 2 110 leisure batteries that have been recently checked after one of them failed and the company replaced it no quibble. I am on a trip down to Limehouse and had my batteries on charge before I left Harlow to then stop here for the night. I also have a pretty hefty solar panel helping with charge. My boat is only 12v with a water pump, few led lights, fridge n cooker gas. Is there a boat electric engineer around who might be able to help me trace the problem please? I don't know I may have a short somewhere but they are slowly driving me mad ?

P.s. I've recently had a new regulator in my alternator.

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Is your fridge running from the 12v?

Lee.

No I think she is saying it is gas.

 

Anyway, to the OP, sorry can't help directly but boat electrics and batteries can be fickle things. My advice, once the current crisis is resolved, is to get some means of monitoring what is going on. Electricity is invisible and without some monitoring such as at the very least a voltmeter, preferably an ammeter and ideally a Smartgauge or the like, along with a rough idea of what they are telling you, you are completely in the dark (pun intended!). Without some monitoring, eventually it will inevitably end in tears.

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12v fridge is going to use about 40amps from the 110 that you have available, remember that as you only have 2 x 110amp batteries of which only 110amps are available as you should not let them discharge more than 50% SOC.

Suggest you do a power audit and be very thorough when doing so, guessing will not supply you with the right info.

Phil

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No I think she is saying it is gas.

 

That'll teach me to scan instead of reading, now I've read it (although still not completely clear) it does intimate gas for the fridge and stove.

 

Also from re-reading the OP (properly) I see the batteries were charged before setting out, and charged on the run (both alternator and solar) but what was the timescale between mooring and the batteries failing?

 

Lee.

 

ETA:- fat finger syndrome corrected :P

Edited by Black Country Lee
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12v fridge is going to use about 40amps from the 110 that you have available, remember that as you only have 2 x 110amp batteries of which only 110amps are available as you should not let them discharge more than 50% SOC.

Suggest you do a power audit and be very thorough when doing so, guessing will not supply you with the right info.

Phil

 

 

Tongue.... biting....

 

 

 

MtB

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Set off from Harlow about 2 , moored up about 5.30

 

What time did the batteries die?

 

Something is definitely amiss, batteries not holding charge, diode pack on the alternator or another drain somewhere in the system. Pity I'm so far or I'd have come had a gander.

 

 

 

 

Tongue.... biting....

 

 

 

clapping.gif

 

Lee.

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12v fridge is going to use about 40amps from the 110 that you have available, remember that as you only have 2 x 110amp batteries of which only 110amps are available as you should not let them discharge more than 50% SOC.

Suggest you do a power audit and be very thorough when doing so, guessing will not supply you with the right info.

Phil

 

That should be amp hours, not amps!

 

 

 

 

 

Not that I really care - I just want to see if MtB bites all the way through his tongue when someone else brings it up after he has kept still.

 

icecream.gif

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That'll teach me to scan instead of reading, now I've read it (although still not completely clear) it does intimate gas for the fridge and stove.

 

Also from re-reading the OP (properly) I see the batteries were charged before setting out, and charged on the run (both alternator and solar) but what was the timescale between mooring and the batteries failing?

 

Lee.

 

ETA:- fat finger syndrome corrected tongue.png

AFAIK solar don't work when the engine is running.

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I dont bother with adding hours after the amp bit when the context of the wording clearly means amp hours, the world and his dog know exactly what is meant by "uses 40amps" only a fool would think anything other than 40 amp hours, perhaps I'll revert to using the term buckets. Afterall we use the words Deli, Bike, Auto,etc etc ad infinitum and everybody knows what we mean, why should it be any different here? or are we to believe that unless you use the exact, complete wording you are a less that perfect boater

Phil

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Grrrrrrrrrr! Batteries! Just when you think there can't possibly be anything else to make them go flat - there is. I'm so frustrated with them. Can anyone help at all please? I am at Roydon after the lock and just past the second bridge. One minute I have light the next i don't. I have 2 110 leisure batteries that have been recently checked after one of them failed and the company replaced it no quibble. I am on a trip down to Limehouse and had my batteries on charge before I left Harlow to then stop here for the night. I also have a pretty hefty solar panel helping with charge. My boat is only 12v with a water pump, few led lights, fridge n cooker gas. Is there a boat electric engineer around who might be able to help me trace the problem please? I don't know I may have a short somewhere but they are slowly driving me mad

P.s. I've recently had a new regulator in my alternator.[/quote

 

Just after Brick lock is Nb.Jarvis. The owner is a marine engineer. His name is Rob. His number is on his boat. He should be able to help if you need it.

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Grrrrrrrrrr! Batteries! Just when you think there can't possibly be anything else to make them go flat - there is. I'm so frustrated with them. Can anyone help at all please? I am at Roydon after the lock and just past the second bridge. One minute I have light the next i don't. I have 2 110 leisure batteries that have been recently checked after one of them failed and the company replaced it no quibble. I am on a trip down to Limehouse and had my batteries on charge before I left Harlow to then stop here for the night. I also have a pretty hefty solar panel helping with charge. My boat is only 12v with a water pump, few led lights, fridge n cooker gas. Is there a boat electric engineer around who might be able to help me trace the problem please? I don't know I may have a short somewhere but they are slowly driving me mad

P.s. I've recently had a new regulator in my alternator.[/quote

 

Just after Brick lock is Nb.Jarvis. The owner is a marine engineer. His name is Rob. His number is on his boat. He should be able to help if you need it.

. Coming from Harlow he's just before the lock.
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I dont bother with adding hours after the amp bit when the context of the wording clearly means amp hours, the world and his dog know exactly what is meant by "uses 40amps" only a fool would think anything other than 40 amp hours, perhaps I'll revert to using the term buckets. Afterall we use the words Deli, Bike, Auto,etc etc ad infinitum and everybody knows what we mean, why should it be any different here? or are we to believe that unless you use the exact, complete wording you are a less that perfect boater

Phil

 

You know and we know what you meant but remember there are a lot of new boaters and others that do not understand and using the wrong term could cause them confusion.

 

Remember it has to be fool proof and even better idiot proof.

 

So post as if everyone is an idiot. wink.png

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Have you ha the battery terminals off, cleaned then to bright metal, smothered in Vaseline and refitted them. At the same time checked for how well the actual cables are fitted into the terminals? It could also be a faulty domestic master switch. Either test by putting both cables on one stud for a short while or if its a plastic key job screw up a bit of tinfoil into a small all and put down the key hole.

 

The solar may or may not contribute to the charge when the engine is running depending upon the two charging voltages but it is probably best to assume not.

 

A short is not so likely as you have not phoned the fire brigade. However it may be something else causing a permanent current flow. How likely it is depends upon the symptoms over a period of time. I suspect the change before setting off might imply ongoing problems.

 

 

I'm with MtB. If one is ignorant of the difference between amps and amp hours then personally I tend to read what is probably intended but if a person knows the difference then to transpose the two terms and use the wrong one is just plain incorrect. It confuses the issue and brings everything being said into question. It also serves to reinforce the incorrect use in the less sure and gives the wrong message to those who do not know.

 

The problem might be with using "mains supplies via wall wart" LED lamps on batteries. We recently had a thread about this and some held that the voltage tolerance of such lights is so narrow they do go off well before a battery is anywhere near "flat". Have you tried a bulb type light, how did the water pump react?

  • Greenie 1
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I'm with MtB. If one is ignorant of the difference between amps and amp hours then personally I tend to read what is probably intended but if a person knows the difference then to transpose the two terms and use the wrong one is just plain incorrect. It confuses the issue and brings everything being said into question. It also serves to reinforce the incorrect use in the less sure and gives the wrong message to those who do not know.

 

Nicely put, thank you Tony. Now my tongue can stop bleeding.

 

I find it understandable for peeps to chose to write "Amps" instead of "Amp hours" when they don't know or understand the difference, but for Phil to chose to deliberately use the wrong term when he understands the difference seems at best perverse. At worst, it seems designed to mislead people who are new to the subject and trying to grasp the principles.

 

Phil, please don't do it. As Tony says, it makes everything else you say appear unreliable too.

 

MtB

Edited by Mike the Boilerman
  • Greenie 1
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Grrrrrrrrrr! Batteries! Just when you think there can't possibly be anything else to make them go flat - there is. I'm so frustrated with them. Can anyone help at all please? I am at Roydon after the lock and just past the second bridge. One minute I have light the next i don't. I have 2 110 leisure batteries that have been recently checked after one of them failed and the company replaced it no quibble. I am on a trip down to Limehouse and had my batteries on charge before I left Harlow to then stop here for the night. I also have a pretty hefty solar panel helping with charge. My boat is only 12v with a water pump, few led lights, fridge n cooker gas. Is there a boat electric engineer around who might be able to help me trace the problem please? I don't know I may have a short somewhere but they are slowly driving me mad

P.s. I've recently had a new regulator in my alternator.

 

Could be something like a loose terminal, bad crimp connection, faulty batt isolator, loose fanbelt.

 

But difficult to diagnose for sure without any voltage and current readings. To see what the charging and discharge voltages are doing, and where the current is going (or not!) a DC clamp ammeter/multimeter is well worth having, links to a few examples in this post:

 

http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=68478&p=1362402

http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=67670&p=1339171

 

Even if you can borrow a normal multimeter off someone, that's a lot better than nothing. Once all is sorted, a cheap panel voltmeter should suffice for basic batt monitoring with a few small loads, a £££ battery monitor may be a bit overkill.

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

Edited by smileypete
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No, no one did. We may have guessed or inferred what he meant but we did not KNOW for sure. The only way anyone can know for sure is if the correct units are used.

Oh, sorry.

 

When referring to battery capacity what could have been meant if not amp/hours? I agree it is incorrect terminology but a great many people, not boaters, make the same mistake concerning battery capacity.

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