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Gardner 4LW


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Looking at a narrow boat with a 1938 Gardner 4LW on board. It looks enormous and too big for a 62 foot boat. Anyone know anything about these engines and whether they present a problem in such a small vessel. I'm practical but looking to buy my first boat and just passed on a one with a Lister HRW4 in it. However this engine appears in better condition. Still concerned about bore glazing problems and that the engine will be under-run.

 

As ever, thank you for any sage advice.

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Certainly big enough. We have a 3LW in a 58 foot boat and whilst we never really load it I have no evidence yet to say its suffering, though we have not had the boat long enough to really know.

To an extent it will depend on how you use it. If you anticipate loaded runs on rivers that would be better, Conversely I would want to avoid using it just to charge the batteries.

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It's WAY too large for the boat and will put off 99% of people viewing the boat I suspect.

 

So if you are willing to take it on (and pay license fee and mooring charges for the 3ft of extra boat length it is taking up!) then you are in a strong position to negotiate a very good price, I'd say...

 

 

MtB

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Hi,

 

Lovely engine, but really much to big (by 2 cylinders?) and unless it has been set up with a small prop. will never get hot and long term use may damage the engine.

 

If it is linked to a calorifier for hot water you find hot water production poor.

 

It may be smokey running very slowly, diesels like to be worked hard.

 

Hope that helps.

 

L

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Hi,

 

Lovely engine, but really much to big (by 2 cylinders?) and unless it has been set up with a small prop. will never get hot and long term use may damage the engine.

 

If it is linked to a calorifier for hot water you find hot water production poor.

 

It may be smokey running very slowly, diesels like to be worked hard.

 

Hope that helps.

 

L

 

Surely it will have a thermostat which will force the temperature to rise to normal operating temperature by restricting the cooling water flow.

 

 

MtB

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Nevertheless they are probably the most popular of oversized vintage engines. The first question I ask owners of such boats concerns bore glazing and they all deny its an issue.

 

So what ARE the symptoms of bore-glazing? Sometimes I sometimes think it's an urban myth, posited only by blokes talking b*ll*cks in pubs!

 

I suggest the OP buys the boat, uses it for ten years then reports back on the bore glazing. That'll settle it :D

 

 

MtB

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Hi,

 

If it is linked to a calorifier for hot water you find hot water production poor.

 

 

Not true, mine heats the water a treat, 80° in half an hour (keel cooling)

Fantastic engines. If you've got an old London bus or an X class submarine. Not so much for a narrow boat.

 

Actually I believe (though may be wrong) the buses had 6 and 8 cylinder Gardners and not the LW

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So what ARE the symptoms of bore-glazing? Sometimes I sometimes think it's an urban myth, posited only by blokes talking b*ll*cks in pubs!

 

I suggest the OP buys the boat, uses it for ten years then reports back on the bore glazing. That'll settle it biggrin.png

 

 

MtB

 

A new bore surface is honed to provide peaks and troughs when magnified. The running in process or machining in manufacture nowadays, removes the peaks leaving a level plateau but retaining the troughs.

 

As I understand it bore glazing occurs when a laquer/varnish caused by chemicals in the oil hardening on surface due to blowpast from prolonged low speed running, fills the troughs leaving a smooth glazed surface. This removes the bores surface oil retention abilities, oil therefore leaks past piston rings causing smoking. The original honing marks can often be seen through the glaze.

 

I suspect a long stroke engine such as the Gardner will suffer less from this than short stroke due to increased piston speed.

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Not true, mine heats the water a treat, 80° in half an hour (keel cooling)

 

 

In a canal boat?, a 2LW takes roughly that sort of time when travelling; the problem occurs when owners try to generate hot water when moored up and the engine is ticking over.

 

L.

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Surely it will have a thermostat which will force the temperature to rise to normal operating temperature by restricting the cooling water flow.

 

 

MtB

Why do people say that?

 

As you say, if an engine is fitted with a proper working thermostat it will run at the correct temperature and heat water in a calorifier

 

Even at tick over and with no load an engine will get hot

 

Not true, mine heats the water a treat, 80° in half an hour (keel cooling)

 

Actually I believe (though may be wrong) the buses had 6 and 8 cylinder Gardners and not the LW

The LW was widely used in busses, both in 6 and 8 cylinder form

A 4LW is a bit big for a NB (70'ish hp).

 

My JP3 (27hp) is over powered for my NB and can only really be worked when on the river in deep water

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Why do people say that?

 

As you say, if an engine is fitted with a proper working thermostat it will run at the correct temperature and heat water in a calorifier

 

Even at tick over and with no load an engine will get hot

The LW was widely used in busses, both in 6 and 8 cylinder form

 

Only partially true. With the heat soak from a cold calorifier in the thermostat bypass circuit, a slow running engine with a large engine block even when driving the boat, may take a while to warm up.

 

I fitted a calorifier bypass T port valve in mine. With calorifier bypassed it still takes typically half an hour with the engine under lightish load to reach 60°C at which point I switch the calorifier into circuit. This typically drops temperature by 5°C initially.

 

The automated answer is to have a twin thermostat setup as standard on some modern canal boat engines. See below.

 

RDG60310228-Issue2-Shire12CompleteManual

Edited by by'eck
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They are a lovely engine but a bit oversized for a narrowboat although I know for several fitted in them without issues. As previously mentioned I would use it as a bargaining point as really a 3LW is more than enough power even when towing a butty. We supplied a 4LW some years ago for a new working boat and butty working in the Thames area and that hardly ever gets anywhere near full engine speed.

 

On the temp front this seems to be an old wives tale manifested by what are really poorly setup cooling systems. Get the system set up correctly and you will have plenty of hot water within a short amount of time. The last LW we supplied the complaint once the owner started using it was the water out of the calorifier was too hot. Ended up having to put a cooler thermostat in it to bring it down a bit.

 

LW's are a generally cool running engine in the first place (most modern engine normal temp of 85 Dec C ish and an LW is nearer 70 Dec C) so in some installations when running at idle they can dissipate enough heat through the block for it not to reach thermostat temps. I have seen plenty of them that hover around the 50 Deg C mark off load and then quickly raise to around 70 ish Deg C once loaded. They will then start to cool back to the original temp fairly quickly if left unloaded for reasonable length of time.

 

Edited to reply to By'ecks post above, the LW I mention above to do with temp has a twin thermostat setup as described by Richard.

Edited by martyn 1
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